Chinese carriers, Ethiopian Airlines suspend use of Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft after crash

[simvastatin]

Just now, Bluestone59 said:

Oh goody, another war will need to be started so that the excess hardware can be used up.

LOL,

We should sell this to the enemy, not fit for purpose.

[Bluestone59]

8 minutes ago, prozac said:

LOL,

We should sell this to the enemy, not fit for purpose.

L O L X 2.

I used to think my late mother in law should have infiltrated the Germans' catering corps, thereby shortening the war in Europe. 

Her daughter wasn't much better, fortunately we haven't eaten together since February 1996.

[simvastatin]

1 minute ago, Bluestone59 said:

L O L X 2.

I used to think my late mother in law should have infiltrated the Germans' catering corps, thereby shortening the war in Europe. 

Her daughter wasn't much better, fortunately we haven't eaten together since February 1996.

Did you divorce her because she cant cook?

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

14 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Quite possibly, not all technical mistakes can be fixed. No doubt the taxpayer will keep Boeing afloat though.

There are a lot of issues out there at the moment. Look at the Trent on the 787 for example.

I guess the main difference with this one is the publicity and public level of confidence, plus the fact that many questions that are being asked are quite fundamental to the design, not just the redesign of a single component that may have undegone premature fatigue for example.

I agree I don't think they will be allowed to collapse. But that is a pretty big taxpayer hit.

 

[Bluestone59]

19 minutes ago, prozac said:

Did you divorce her because she cant cook?

No, I just took on as much of the cooking as I could for 22 years.  But her mother always wanted rid of me, I suspected, which I think was because I wasn't interested in becoming a mason. She persuaded her daughter that I didn't want to work. I was mostly unemployed from 1993 to mid 1994 despite my best efforts.

The final straw came when a lass I gave a lift to work got pissed, called the house and told her "I'm f***ing your husband."  It wasn't even true, sadly as she was much younger and a real looker. I think she was looking for a dad for her kids. 

L O L X 3 I make that.

[simvastatin]

14 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

No, I just took on as much of the cooking as I could for 22 years.  But her mother always wanted rid of me, I suspected, which I think was because I wasn't interested in becoming a mason. She persuaded her daughter that I didn't want to work. I was mostly unemployed from 1993 to mid 1994 despite my best efforts.

The final straw came when a lass I gave a lift to work got pissed, called the house and told her "I'm f***ing your husband."  It wasn't even true, sadly as she was much younger and a real looker. I think she was looking for a dad for her kids. 

L O L X 3 I make that.

So its 2019 approaching 2020, have you found your soumate ?

[Bluestone59]

9 minutes ago, prozac said:

So its 2019 approaching 2020, have you found your soumate ?

Nice of you to ask thank you.

Yes I did, shortly after midnight on 91/01/2000.  We're still going but neither of us is that easy to live with tbh. I think it's now until death do us part, we are respectively past 70 and 63.

[simvastatin]

2 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

Nice of you to ask thank you.

Yes I did, shortly after midnight on 91/01/2000.  We're still going but neither of us is that easy to live with tbh. I think it's now until death do us part, we are respectively past 70 and 63.

You sounded like you were in your 50s.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/09/01/755185560/optimists-for-the-win-finding-the-bright-side-might-help-you-live-longer?t=1577128483617

[Bluestone59]

40 minutes ago, prozac said:

You sounded like you were in your 50s.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/09/01/755185560/optimists-for-the-win-finding-the-bright-side-might-help-you-live-longer?t=1577128483617

Yes, born 1949.

That link was interesting, thank you. I believe I can substantiate the proposition. Those I associate with, friends, relatives, workmates (I am still at work) are mostly aged 60 - 73. At 70.5 I am by some way the most healthy of all. I believe the endorphins released by laughter are an understated health benefit and oh boy have I had some serious laughs in my time. 

I commend this strategy to all.

What this has to do with faulty aircraft design is not immediately apparent to me, nor to anyone else I'm sure.

[Bluestone59]

In an attempt to get back on topic I recommend a book "the world's worst aircraft". There are several with the same title, the one I speak of is by James Gilbert, a former pilot.

Unless Boeing come up with something soon I suspect the Max will be appearing in a similar future publication.

I never had any issues with flying but I'm not willing even to step onto a plane at the moment.

Greed has taken over the arena which used to be controlled by professionals. If there aren't more similar scandals I shall be both relieved and very very surprised.

[simvastatin]

3 hours ago, Bluestone59 said:

In an attempt to get back on topic I recommend a book "the world's worst aircraft". There are several with the same title, the one I speak of is by James Gilbert, a former pilot.

Unless Boeing come up with something soon I suspect the Max will be appearing in a similar future publication.

I never had any issues with flying but I'm not willing even to step onto a plane at the moment.

Greed has taken over the arena which used to be controlled by professionals. If there aren't more similar scandals I shall be both relieved and very very surprised.

I would predict any airline that accepts Boeing 737 max in its fleet will close down, regardless of what fix is agreed we are a superstitious species that believes in luck or in this case bad luck. Horace is probably turning in his grave.

This aeroplane has bad magic in its dna.

 

[MarkG]

On 23/12/2019 at 11:35, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Maybe the existing ones will be repurposed to cargo or military use who knows what might happen.

After the reported problems with the new aerial refueling tankers, I'm not sure the military will want more Boeings for a while.

[Big Orange]

   This old article from all the way back fromJanuary 2016 mentions how McDonnell Douglas, since the turn of the millennia, hollowed out Boeing to cut costs, and left it shackled to a "collegial, bloated, flaccid management structure".

And there was a sub-culture of bad managers, known as "bright boys" often promoted and assigned beyond their abilities (and of course ignorant about aviation engineering and safety).

And here we are, 3 to 4 years later, with mismanaged Boeing grappling with the fallout of dangerous planes falling out the sky, killing hundreds, because they cut corners.

This could be as bad as Enron.

[MarkG]

It's not just the 737 MAX. The 787 was pretty much a disaster at launch, and, if I remember correctly, both late and over-budget due to mass outsourcing. The refueling tankers have had numerous issues, including tools being found rattling around inside parts of the aircraft. And then just recently their new space capsule failed to get to the space station.

Modern Boeing ain't the Boeing that built the 747.

[Big Orange]

4 hours ago, MarkG said:

It's not just the 737 MAX. The 787 was pretty much a disaster at launch, and, if I remember correctly, both late and over-budget due to mass outsourcing.

Ironic, Boeing "farming out" aircraft development and production to Boeing branches and sub-contractors overseas in India, etc, to save money, but the idiots go over budget anyway.

And it ends up needlessly costing aircraft, innocent lives, and their reputation (perhaps beyond repair, like 1980s Soviet Russia, which 2010s USA looks like, IMO).

[simvastatin]

On 23/12/2019 at 20:21, Bluestone59 said:

In an attempt to get back on topic I recommend a book "the world's worst aircraft". There are several with the same title, the one I speak of is by James Gilbert, a former pilot.

Unless Boeing come up with something soon I suspect the Max will be appearing in a similar future publication.

I never had any issues with flying but I'm not willing even to step onto a plane at the moment.

Greed has taken over the arena which used to be controlled by professionals. If there aren't more similar scandals I shall be both relieved and very very surprised.

So look at what o"Leary has been up to

[simvastatin]

[bear.getting.old]

Oh dear. Ryanair may be cheap but nobody is going to want to fly on one of those planes. They should cancel the orders and buy other reliable safe planes instead. Don't they run the small airbus plane normally?

Edited December 26, 2019 by bear.getting.old

[Diver Dan]

1 hour ago, bear.getting.old said:

Oh dear. Ryanair may be cheap but nobody is going to want to fly on one of those planes. They should cancel the orders and buy other reliable safe planes instead. Don't they run the small airbus plane normally?

Part of the cost saving scheme that Ryanair use is to have the same 737-800 across their entire fleet. I don't think they've ever flown Airbus. This cuts down on staff training and repairs which would cost a lot more of they were running multiple different shapes and sizes of aircraft.

[bear.getting.old]

Oh well, unless those planes suddenly prove reliable then Ryanair is dust, even then, would people risk flying on them?

Edited December 26, 2019 by bear.getting.old

[Peter Hun]

I will never fly the Max. I doubt it will ever be allowed to fly again but if it does I'll avoid Ryanair. Easyjet fly 100% Airbus, as do Wizzair.

The instability cannot be fixed and if it is (by moving the wings) the aircraft will have to be re-certified as a new type. This will be impossible as there are things in the 737 that have Grandfathered from the 707 and would not be allowed in a new design today.

Boeing are might be hit with a $100billion write down of scrapped MAX's.

[simvastatin]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

I will never fly the Max. I doubt it will ever be allowed to fly again but if it does I'll avoid Ryanair. Easyjet fly 100% Airbus, as do Wizzair.

The instability cannot be fixed and if it is (by moving the wings) the aircraft will have to be re-certified as a new type. This will be impossible as there are things in the 737 that have Grandfathered from the 707 and would not be allowed in a new design today.

Boeing are might be hit with a $100billion write down of scrapped MAX's.

I think Teflon O'Leary has gone too far, i would sell Ryanair shares if i owned any, and probably buy some Easyjet, i was now thinking of booking a flight Ryanair would not be an airline i would consider. 

[Big Orange]

Shareholder culture (where employees are blindly laid off and corners cut with products or services to maximise profits) is becoming as unsustainable as the Soviet command economy (if Boeing gets hollowed out and their planes are dangerous, with Ryanair still buying them).

[longgone]

On 23/12/2019 at 17:16, Dorkins said:

I've seen this dynamic in corporate environments. Middle Manager X makes an unforced wrong decision (usually caused by not consulting or actively ignoring the technical experts down the hall), time passes, wrong decision leads to inevitable negative outcome and it comes to the attention of senior leaders, Middle Manager X finally drags the technical experts in and thrashes the whole team to within an inch of their lives to fix something that should never have needed fixing and diverting large quantities of resources away from everything else, fix is delivered, Middle Manager X gets praised to high heaven by senior leaders for showing leadership, teamwork etc.

As everything else in life it's just a race to the bottom and leave the door ajar to pass the buck and conjure up a remedy when needed.

In this case a flying coffin !  the thing should be scrapped the FAA needs much higher quality standards and a process for design and construction methods with rigorous inspections before certification.

 

[Houdini]

43 minutes ago, longgone said:

As everything else in life it's just a race to the bottom and leave the door ajar to pass the buck and conjure up a remedy when needed.

In this case a flying coffin !  the thing should be scrapped the FAA needs much higher quality standards and a process for design and construction methods with rigorous inspections before certification.

 

Boeing have built over 1000 of them since the plane was grounded. Unless the 737 max is allowed to fly that production will bankrupt them and I suspect the plane is uncertifible