Why mass immigration explains the housing crisis

[iamnumerate]

39 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Great post but sadly will fall on deaf ears. Throughout history foreigners have been blamed for problems. It is exactly why we end up with ethnic cleansing, the holocaust and so on. Humans actually want someone else to blame and the easiest are "outgroupers".

The replies you receive here will be along the lines of "sure but..." and then continued blaming of foreigners. In other words translated as "we've just blanked out everything you just said and will continue to blame foreigners".

I think immigration has caused the housing crisis (although it is not the only cause).  However I don't blame foreigners I blame the politicians who let them come in (in some cases paid them) but didn't think about how to provide the houses needed.

As an analogy this boat in Colombia sank because there were too many passengers.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/colombia-boat-reservoir-sinks-tourists-10688176

 

Quote

The four-deck ship called, El Almirante, was believed to be overcrowded when it hit trouble in the middle of the reservoir near the Guatape Dam.

Tourists were seen scrambling to get to upper decks in a bid to stay above the surface level as the boat plunged into the water.

It sank because there were too many passengers but (assuming that they entered with tickets etc) it was not their fault, it was the person who let them come in.

So you are wrong saying immigration has caused the problem is not blaming immigrants but British politicians.

[ccc]

5 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Great post but sadly will fall on deaf ears. Throughout history foreigners have been blamed for problems. It is exactly why we end up with ethnic cleansing, the holocaust and so on. Humans actually want someone else to blame and the easiest are "outgroupers".

The replies you receive here will be along the lines of "sure but..." and then continued blaming of foreigners. In other words translated as "we've just blanked out everything you just said and will continue to blame foreigners".

Duplicate

Edited April 2, 2018 by ccc

[ccc]

5 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Great post but sadly will fall on deaf ears. Throughout history foreigners have been blamed for problems. It is exactly why we end up with ethnic cleansing, the holocaust and so on. Humans actually want someone else to blame and the easiest are "outgroupers".

The replies you receive here will be along the lines of "sure but..." and then continued blaming of foreigners. In other words translated as "we've just blanked out everything you just said and will continue to blame foreigners".

Great server. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by ccc

[ccc]

5 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Great post but sadly will fall on deaf ears. Throughout history foreigners have been blamed for problems. It is exactly why we end up with ethnic cleansing, the holocaust and so on. Humans actually want someone else to blame and the easiest are "outgroupers".

The replies you receive here will be along the lines of "sure but..." and then continued blaming of foreigners. In other words translated as "we've just blanked out everything you just said and will continue to blame foreigners".

Get a grip of yourself. 

Dislike of mass uncontrolled immigration = nazi.

Seriously. Just get a grip. 

[MARTINX9]

3 hours ago, ccc said:

Get a grip of yourself. 

Dislike of mass uncontrolled immigration = nazi.

Seriously. Just get a grip. 

Apparently the vast majority of the world's nations who do not have open borders are  on the verge of murdering millions of Jews?  I do sometimes wonder if such posters think there should be any limits or skills thresholds at all to how many people we can accommodate in the UK which in terms of England already has one of the highest population densities on the world and a housing crisis.

Controlled immigration based on skills and points not a free for all cheap labour economy supported by welfare handouts and tax credits is what we should aspire to - like Canada, Australia and NZ have in place. 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by MARTINX9

[Riedquat]

10 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Great post but sadly will fall on deaf ears. Throughout history foreigners have been blamed for problems. It is exactly why we end up with ethnic cleansing, the holocaust and so on. Humans actually want someone else to blame and the easiest are "outgroupers".

The replies you receive here will be along the lines of "sure but..." and then continued blaming of foreigners. In other words translated as "we've just blanked out everything you just said and will continue to blame foreigners".

That post has been picked on already, and rightly so. Having something against immigration is not the same as having something against immigrants. Treating them as one and the same, whether it's "nothing against the people so nothing against immigration" or the other way around, is an oversimplification that blinds you to the problems.

[chronyx]

@thewig your services are required

[Lurkerbelow]

12 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

That post has been picked on already, and rightly so. Having something against immigration is not the same as having something against immigrants. Treating them as one and the same, whether it's "nothing against the people so nothing against immigration" or the other way around, is an oversimplification that blinds you to the problems.

Unfortunately I think the current public discourse over immigration has generally become one of being either anti-immigrant (and scapegoating them for the UK's problems) or opposed to that view.  Thus we get thread titles such as for this thread which out and out scapegoats immigration for the UK's housing issues.   It's why though being someone who supports having more control over migration than we currently do, I will not associate myself with the current UKIPPER style side of the immigration debate.   Nor will I support them in any way.

[ccc]

1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

Apparently the vast majority of the world's nations who do not have open borders are  on the verge of murdering millions of Jews?  I do sometimes wonder if such posters think there should be any limits or skills thresholds at all to how many people we can accommodate in the UK which in terms of England already has one of the highest population densities on the world and a housing crisis.

Controlled immigration based on skills and points not a free for all cheap labour economy supported by welfare handouts and tax credits is what we should aspire to - like Canada, Australia and NZ have in place. 

 

Yes. Whatever has happened so far and whatever divisions it's caused - we need to get on with finding a sensible outcome. 

59 minutes ago, chronyx said:

@thewig your services are required

#bit_sexist_mate

43 minutes ago, Lurkerbelow said:

Unfortunately I think the current public discourse over immigration has generally become one of being either anti-immigrant (and scapegoating them for the UK's problems) or opposed to that view.  Thus we get thread titles such as for this thread which out and out scapegoats immigration for the UK's housing issues.   It's why though being someone who supports having more control over migration than we currently do, I will not associate myself with the current UKIPPER style side of the immigration debate.   Nor will I support them in any way.

We need to be able to have an adult discussion about it. That's all. Why and how it's got to this point is pretty shameful. However it is what it is so got to just get on with it. 

[Fence]

What a load of BS.  Of course immigrants have caused a higher demand for housing, even at a disgusting 6 to a room or whatever.  Sure, the politicians are at fault as they do their cheap labour seeking corporate masters' bidding.  Of course you can't blame immigrants for doing something you would probably do in their situation.  Of course anyone going off the deep end about nazis and the holocaust is a not helping the debate prat.  None of this is rocket science requiring such lengthy verbage.  Just go away and do something usefully intelligent.

[Riedquat]

11 hours ago, Lurkerbelow said:

Unfortunately I think the current public discourse over immigration has generally become one of being either anti-immigrant (and scapegoating them for the UK's problems) or opposed to that view.  Thus we get thread titles such as for this thread which out and out scapegoats immigration for the UK's housing issues.   It's why though being someone who supports having more control over migration than we currently do, I will not associate myself with the current UKIPPER style side of the immigration debate.   Nor will I support them in any way.

Then you've let them control the debate for you.

Adding very significant numbers of people to the population and then pointing the finger at that for housing problems is not scapegoating (even though I believe loose lending is the largest cause of overpriced housing). Last year it was down but still nearing a quarter of a million (net). That's about the population of Derby (in 2011). Every year. How can that not be a significant contributor to the UK's housing issues?

[cnick]

18 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Then you've let them control the debate for you.

Adding very significant numbers of people to the population and then pointing the finger at that for housing problems is not scapegoating (even though I believe loose lending is the largest cause of overpriced housing). Last year it was down but still nearing a quarter of a million (net). That's about the population of Derby (in 2011). Every year. How can that not be a significant contributor to the UK's housing issues?

Yes, you say 'loose lending'.....but is the creation of thin air credit  'loose lending'??. THIS is the absolute root cause of immigration & HPI. The guys that do the money creation (bankers) .... and the guys who allow it (politicians) ........   oh yes,  lets not forget the stars of the show here....... those who  voted for it sanctioned it (us you?).

Politico-bankers create thin air 'money' to keep themselves in power..... think of it as the more inflation there is....the more power the banko-politicians have (?)

 

[Fence]

Credit causes immigration.

People can vote for specifics.

Politicans only do what they said.

All voters have PhDs.

Sheeps' bladders cause eathquakes.

However:

Fake money maintains the status quo.

Inflation is good for them, not you.

Credit causes asset price rises - eg. HPI.

Go to top of the class.

 

[ccc]

31 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Then you've let them control the debate for you.

Adding very significant numbers of people to the population and then pointing the finger at that for housing problems is not scapegoating (even though I believe loose lending is the largest cause of overpriced housing). Last year it was down but still nearing a quarter of a million (net). That's about the population of Derby (in 2011). Every year. How can that not be a significant contributor to the UK's housing issues?

It is of course. However some people would prefer to go down the - well there are other reasons behind it as well so lets just not mention immigration - angle.

Why the subject of immigration seems so taboo really is beyond me. I suppose people have been brainwashed over the past few decades not to speak about it for fear of being labelled racist. Propaganda Goebbels would have been proud of.

Anyway - seems the cat is out of the bag now. Folk have had enough and are just starting to come out and say what they have been thinking. Much better situation to be in.

[Fence]

If you want to fix a problem:

. Admit you have one.

. Have faith in ordinary people.

. Foster honest intelligent debate.

. Look at the real facts.

. Define sensible solutions.

. Discuss morality.

. Let the majority decide.

. Move forward.

Alternatively, feather your corrupt cash and/or bent intellectual nests, call them racist, and wait for what goes round to come round.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Fence

[Riedquat]

There clearly seem to be people who draw an association with the genuine nutters and racists and refuse to look at the issue. That, I believe, is the type of head-burying that allows said nutters to float to the top, taking advantage of the increasing justified anger to warp it around to their own goals. That in turn results in the reasoned voices being silenced by the equally stupid (those incapable of thinking  beyond "well you're both against immigration therefore are the same"). That's where any unpleasantness comes from - both those directly pushing for it and those trying to suppress the discussion are responsible.

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, Fence said:

. Have faith in ordinary people.
...

. Let the majority decide.

I'm no more capable of having faith in ordinary people than I am in any other group. Whatever faith I had in people was destroyed long ago.

[cnick]

12 minutes ago, Fence said:

Credit causes asset price rises - eg. HPI.

Ah yes, but what sort of credit?..... it comes in two distinct, vitally important flavours.

[cnick]

2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'm no more capable of having faith in ordinary people than I am in any other group. Whatever faith I had in people was destroyed long ago.

The faith you had in people was destroyed by the state.

[Errol]

11 hours ago, ccc said:

 

 

 

Just quoting this because it's really good!

[guest_northshore]

On 31/03/2018 at 11:39 PM, olde guto said:

... tl;dr don't let yourselves be distracted from the real root causes of the UK housing crisis - banks, politicians and rentiers!

Generally agree although would add in demographics/ageing and resulting impact on social hierarchy, for now. There may be issues with immigration policy, but the cause of high house prices is not one of them.

If there had been fewer immigrants, fewer houses would have been built. Homebuilders only ever build precisely as many as they can sell at max price. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand.

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, guest_northshore said:

If there had been fewer immigrants, fewer houses would have been built. Homebuilders only ever build precisely as many as they can sell at max price. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand.

Maybe, but the fewer that need building the easier it is to get them built (and it would still be a net win, not having to have those houses built). Housebuilders obviously want to sell for as much as possible, but the general trend everywhere else seems to be that selling a lot cheaply beats a few expensively.

[cnick]

4 minutes ago, Errol said:

 

Just quoting this because it's really good!

oh yes.....Lovely distraction.... bread & circuses etc....

[Riedquat]

10 minutes ago, cnick said:

The faith you had in people was destroyed by the state.

The state reflects the people, or at any rate the people create the environment in which the state exists.

 

[Fence]

16 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'm no more capable of having faith in ordinary people than I am in any other group. Whatever faith I had in people was destroyed long ago.

Sad.