MSM anti landlord articles

[Guest]

This one will be very popular even with mums and dads who don't rent

Eviction threat over complaints about crying baby - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41996972

 

[oatbake]

It's not just MSM to be fair. There seems to be an increasing amount of soul-searching amongst landlords themselves. Somebody over on propertytribeswas saying how disgusting it was that some landlords were hoping for more homeless so that the government would reverse section 24. 

Good job we've got them fighting our corner over this "Tenant Tax" eh?

https://www.propertytribes.com/landlords-want-to-gain-from-others-pain-t-127631875.html

"Imagine that as a newspaper's headline.
Reading different threads a number of landlords regularly say they want to see more homeless in the expectation that the government will make concessions to them.  Similarly a number of landlords also hope to see other landlords withdraw from BTL to push up rents."

[adarmo]

 Some of them are scum

Some of them are clueless

Some of them are genuinely decent

I just hope that the laws make it easier and cheaper to move from the bad ones to the good ones and the bad landlords suffer.

I hope for no homeless but sadly everyone i speak to about it seems to see ever more on the street. Not just cities anymore but even quiet market towns. If any good comes of it it should be to ensure we provide adequate housing for all. 

Can't hold my breath though. 

[Parkwell]

It's because house builders are yet to discover soundproofing. It's more illusive than a cure for cancer. Either that or everyone wants to hear their neighbour taking a dump in the night.

Of course, if it's an older property then it's simply because rentier scum.

 

 

[Amiinsane]

2 hours ago, adarmo said:

 Some of them are scum

Some of them are clueless

Some of them are genuinely decent

Most of them are scum

All of them are greedy

All of them are convinced they're business geniuses

The decent ones are rare as rocking horse shit

[TheCountOfNowhere]

BTLers are being set up for a great fall/scapegoats

 

No one will cry when these ****s lose it all.

[Fence]

7 hours ago, oatbake said:

It's not just MSM to be fair. There seems to be an increasing amount of soul-searching amongst landlords themselves. Somebody over on propertytribeswas saying how disgusting it was that some landlords were hoping for more homeless so that the government would reverse section 24. 

.......

Smart BTLers would currently be doing the walking, not the talking!

[Option5]

4 hours ago, Amiinsane said:

Most of them are scum

All of them are greedy

All of them are convinced they're business geniuses

The decent ones are rare as rocking horse shit

I've had seven UK landlords and only one of those was a bit of a prat, the rest were fine. However in fairness I've always been in the higher end of the market, the prat was the the landlord of the cheapest flat I've ever rented.

[Option5]

10 minutes ago, Fence said:

Smart BTLers would currently be doing the walking, not the talking!

Smart BTLers  are already over the hill and far away

[Fence]

3 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Smart BTLers  are already over the hill and far away

Then they did the right thing and bye bye and all the best.  It's been fun.  Right, now close the doors, start the music, and release the vampires.  Showtime!

Edited November 17, 2017 by Fence

[Bsmf]

8 hours ago, adarmo said:

 Some of them are scum

Some of them are clueless

Some of them are genuinely decent

I just hope that the laws make it easier and cheaper to move from the bad ones to the good ones and the bad landlords suffer.

I hope for no homeless but sadly everyone i speak to about it seems to see ever more on the street. Not just cities anymore but even quiet market towns. If any good comes of it it should be to ensure we provide adequate housing for all. 

Can't hold my breath though. 

There all greedy scum that want to make money off other people's work.

Most of them are the vicious Mumsnet types that claim they are lefty and doing people a favour by getting into BTL.

[Funn3r]

6 hours ago, Parkwell said:

It's because house builders are yet to discover soundproofing. 

 

Seriously why is soundproofing so difficult? Is it tricky to achieve on a technical level or is it just down to builders not wanting to spend the money. 

We've all been in houses where you can hear every little noise from next door. I'm not talking about chavvy neighbours and their loud parties I'm talking about that little wubble-click noise as next door plugs something into a 13 amp socket on the party wall. 

A while ago I was in a hotel where I was kept awake by snoring from the person in the next room. 

Can nothing be done? 

[adarmo]

13 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Seriously why is soundproofing so difficult? Is it tricky to achieve on a technical level or is it just down to builders not wanting to spend the money. 

We've all been in houses where you can hear every little noise from next door. I'm not talking about chavvy neighbours and their loud parties I'm talking about that little wubble-click noise as next door plugs something into a 13 amp socket on the party wall. 

A while ago I was in a hotel where I was kept awake by snoring from the person in the next room. 

Can nothing be done? 

I think there was a period in the early naughties when this was a big issue but an ex GF bought a flat in a new block in 2009 which was being completed as she moved in. It's in London and with the windows closed you could hear a pin drop. With houses though I think there are different regs around party walls but I could be wrong. 

I have found hotels to be quite noisy though. Especially travel lodges - those rooms are only marginally better than sleeping rough. 

[adarmo]

26 minutes ago, Bsmf said:

There all greedy scum that want to make money off other people's work.

Most of them are the vicious Mumsnet types that claim they are lefty and doing people a favour by getting into BTL.

I wouldn't say they are ALL greedy scum. My ex landlord actually was a genuinely good bloke. Perfect landlord, lots of advice on buying in the local area (he had formerly run a building company that he'd passed on to his son). The flat we rented had been carved out of a former large house which was on an increasingly busy road so made sense to extend and convert into flats. 

I agree he's not doing it for altruistic reasons and perhaps I would have seen a nasty side had I stopped paying rent - but then we did freely enter a contract to rent his place and pay him £x per month. Deposit was returned in full despite a burn mark on the carpet (wasn't us but wasn't mentioned in inventory). But from his position he had literally built his rental properties to be his retirement. They were well maintained and if anything went wrong, even a light bulb, he was over the next day to fix. 

Maybe I've been lucky. The people I rented from before were pretty spivy and your more typical buy, rent, remortgage and repeat types wanting to build an empire. Still not bad people but jeeps did they haggle over a small mark on the very light coloured carpets (honestly!). Paid them £150 in the end to shut them up!

In my view the worst of the whole circus are the lettings agents with their BS fees for this, that and the other. Constantly trying it on to milk people with little economic resources, or even the vulnerable, into paying over the odds. 

[Toast]

26 minutes ago, adarmo said:

I wouldn't say they are ALL greedy scum. My ex landlord actually was a genuinely good bloke. Perfect landlord, lots of advice on buying in the local area (he had formerly run a building company that he'd passed on to his son). The flat we rented had been carved out of a former large house which was on an increasingly busy road so made sense to extend and convert into flats. 

I agree he's not doing it for altruistic reasons and perhaps I would have seen a nasty side had I stopped paying rent - but then we did freely enter a contract to rent his place and pay him £x per month. Deposit was returned in full despite a burn mark on the carpet (wasn't us but wasn't mentioned in inventory). But from his position he had literally built his rental properties to be his retirement. They were well maintained and if anything went wrong, even a light bulb, he was over the next day to fix. 

Maybe I've been lucky. The people I rented from before were pretty spivy and your more typical buy, rent, remortgage and repeat types wanting to build an empire. Still not bad people but jeeps did they haggle over a small mark on the very light coloured carpets (honestly!). Paid them £150 in the end to shut them up!

In my view the worst of the whole circus are the lettings agents with their BS fees for this, that and the other. Constantly trying it on to milk people with little economic resources, or even the vulnerable, into paying over the odds. 

So, as a builder, he was genuinely providing housing (rather than "providing housing"), and chose to rent it rather than sell it. In some sense that funamentally different foundation may have contributed to his refreshingly good approach as a landlord. I think it is less likely that someone who has entered the game purely to extract economic rent by reducing the supply of OO houses will be so genuine and unmanipulative.

Most of my experience in rented accommodation in the uk has been via letting agents, who have strong incentives to keep tenants "in their place" (to reduce hassle), and none of the moral compass of a thoughtful individual.

[macca13]

11 hours ago, Grab_Some_Popcorn said:

This one will be very popular even with mums and dads who don't rent

Eviction threat over complaints about crying baby - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41996972

 

If you partition a 2 bed flat into 15 rooms of course the walls will be thin.. ?

[Venger]

3 hours ago, Bsmf said:

There all greedy scum that want to make money off other people's work.

Most of them are the vicious Mumsnet types that claim they are lefty and doing people a favour by getting into BTL.

+1 ++++++++

This morning read a BTLer forum with a 4-page thread about BTLers caring - but others straight up saying it's pure business.

One 'caring landlord' (hmm) was all for trying to arrange a 'National Section 21 Day' and get TV News to focus on crying/worried tenants, as a way of applying pressure on Govt to reverse Section 24.

Now S24 and he sees the coming wipeout of other landlords.... "they couldn't have foreseen S24."     Errr... you have 20+ homes (maybe 50) bought since late 90s.  You don't think that's sign of an emergency vs younger people ever more priced out, and BTLers playing 'landlord' with other people's homes.

"Homeownership for me - renting for you." 

https://www.propertytribes.com/landlords-want-to-gain-from-others-pain-t-127631875.html

One of them plain tells how she's fed on other landlords coming a cropper in the past, but finds it hard to see others being BTLers into future ("model broken"). 

As for all the others blaming Govt (re S24) - you got what you wanted.  Housing affordability crisis, Generation Rent.... you went into that.  Worse outcome is they you become renters in the future.

They see what the want to see.... 

What did the Fergus say; "We're in business to make money, not house people.  We're property investors."

Quote

In a few instances, he has bought properties from people in financial difficulty and rented them back to them. “It’s sad sometimes, but we’re in the business to make money, not to house people,” he says.

 

[Venger]

There were two PT threads I read this morning.  My memory was a mix of one above, and this one + probably a few others.

It's funny because just as a main quest on HPC is to 'Pity The Homeowner' (in event of any HPC).

So many themes over there are 'Pity The Landlord' vs S24 / possible bankruptcy.

 

Quote

 

Fair play to you, DL, you've earned what you have honestly and you've no doubt worked damned hard for that level of success, but you've been in this game a long time, right?

Would you feel the same if you'd got into it right before the crash and were left in danger of losing everything you'd worked for, including your own home?

I know people in this situation, and it's not right. And given that landlords are damned as Satan by the majority of the population, it doesn't help when they come to sites like this as the only place they might get some support, and see people waiting to pick over their bones.

--------------------

That maybe came out wrong; the gloat comment wasn't aimed at you (but some people are gloating). I do appreciate there is a difference between being a savvy business owner and being insensitive.

I guess those of you who lived through the high interest rates maybe see this as less of a crisis than those for whom this level of challenge was unthinkable. And huge respect from me to anyone who has built up a business of that size.

It still infuriates me that people are trapped in a situation where they are at risk of bankruptcy for no greater crime than trying to secure their future; and perhaps for being naïve in giving chances to tenants who abused the hand they were given (hands up, been on the end of that one myself). That and other aspects of UK 2017 have got me annoyed me to the point that I've got involved in politics for the first time ever. And I do intend to keep complaining about the retroactive nature of S24 for as long as humanely possible.

The most frustrating thing is I don't believe the first time buyers will keep the market buoyant. Nobody wants to commit right now. I think it will have negative pressure on house prices.

Personally I was getting out anyway, my portfolio is in Scotland (where I was living when I decided I wanted somewhere safe to put my savings), and I don't like the way the law is going. If I didn't have other income, I would not be able to get out., happily I never gave up the day job. But I don't think, given the retroactive nature of S24 and the fact that it's taxation on turnover, that I'd ever be comfortable with my money in a non-liquid asset again. I don't trust that a similar tax won't be imposed on incorporated landlords below a certain size. 

I may be wrong, this was only ever somewhere to put my pension for me and I have very small knowledge compared to most of you on here.

https://www.propertytribes.com/we-should-welcome-government-changes-t-127631857.html

 

It's not a game.  No one forced you to buy other properties (supply and affordability and plunging homeownership), to rent out to other people, right at the old peak (pre credit crunch 10 years ago... and where policy response shouldn't have kept BTLers alive another 10+ years).

Yet 'huge respect' for older landlords back to the 1990s.... what for being older and more homes/more BTLs/more HPI+++/

It's not retrospective.

Quote

 

For example, the over-leveraged portfolio landlords often feel that it is not fair that the rules have changed on them. They then say that because it makes investments which looked great in June 2015 look decidedly shite by July 2020 the change is retrospective. Again this is daft.

Companies and the government are in a never-ending dance where the companies seek to construct their tax affairs given the rules as they stand and the government are continually tweaking those rules to compensate for the way in which companies amend their financing to exploit the weak points in the rules. There are very clever people who spend their working lives engaged in this game of cat and mouse. It's a game for grown-ups.

The over-leveraged portfolio landlords have played the first round of the game (exploiting a feature of the existing rules) but when the government makes its move they throw a toddler tantrum and run behind the tenants (that they always planned to evict sooner or later) like some kind of human shield.

 

 

There was also this.  Mortgage broker + BTLer.  He may be dyslexic or something, but does mix it with other people on BTL lending side/housing side, so I am alert to whatever his views are.   As I recall it, last year and year before that, there was not much concern re S24/other/housing market.

 

[adarmo]

5 hours ago, Toast said:

So, as a builder, he was genuinely providing housing (rather than "providing housing"), and chose to rent it rather than sell it. In some sense that funamentally different foundation may have contributed to his refreshingly good approach as a landlord. I think it is less likely that someone who has entered the game purely to extract economic rent by reducing the supply of OO houses will be so genuine and unmanipulative.

Most of my experience in rented accommodation in the uk has been via letting agents, who have strong incentives to keep tenants "in their place" (to reduce hassle), and none of the moral compass of a thoughtful individual.

No doubt we were lucky and from what I understand from talking to people in the community he is regarded as one of the best landlords in the area. 

[mattyboy1973]

6 hours ago, Funn3r said:

Seriously why is soundproofing so difficult? Is it tricky to achieve on a technical level or is it just down to builders not wanting to spend the money. 

We've all been in houses where you can hear every little noise from next door. I'm not talking about chavvy neighbours and their loud parties I'm talking about that little wubble-click noise as next door plugs something into a 13 amp socket on the party wall. 

A while ago I was in a hotel where I was kept awake by snoring from the person in the next room. 

Can nothing be done? 

Because sound-proofing building regs aren't particularly onerous (internally, only needed for bathrooms and bedrooms, and then not to a high standard), it costs more to do it well (but not much, in the scheme of things) and people are unlikely to notice it when viewing a property.

It's actually not that hard or expensive to put decent sound proofing in the stud walls as they are going up, but obviously much more hassle once they're built.

[Venger]

8 hours ago, adarmo said:

No doubt we were lucky and from what I understand from talking to people in the community he is regarded as one of the best landlords in the area. 

What a ringing endorsement for landlordism.

[BorrowToLeech]

You may be superficially nice, you might be charming and friendly, with lovely manners. Maybe you give money to charity, or support the local community. 

It doesn't matter.

If you make your money evicting people, or threatening to evict people, if your job involves sending inspectors into other people's homes to intimidate them, then you not a good person.

If you bought up houses you didn't need in the middle of a housing crisis, to profit from the crisis,  then you are not a good person.

We need to stop acting like this is reasonable behaviour.  

All landlords are bad because they are landlords, and the only way to make amends is to stop.  

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by DrBuyToLeech

[stop_the_craziness]

1 hour ago, DrBuyToLeech said:

You may be superficially nice, you might be charming and friendly, with lovely manners. Maybe you give money to charity, or support the local community. 

It doesn't matter.

If you make your money evicting people, or threatening to evict people, if your job involves sending inspectors into other people's homes to intimidate them, then you not a good person.

If you bought up houses you didn't need in the middle of a housing crisis, to profit from the crisis,  then you are not a good person.

We need to stop acting like this is reasonable behaviour.  

All landlords are bad because they are landlords, and the only way to make amends is to stop.  

 

I'm going to have this printed on little laminated cards and hand them to my friends and family who think they are "one of the nice landlords"

[Toast]

9 hours ago, DrBuyToLeech said:

You may be superficially nice, [...]

All landlords are bad because they are landlords, and the only way to make amends is to stop. 

8 hours ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I'm going to have this printed on little laminated cards and hand them to my friends and family who think they are "one of the nice landlords"

 

Yes, DrBuyToLeech encapsulates the argument very elegantly. Beyond the need for a very small percentage of rented properties (a quantity the UK has exceeded many, many times over), taking homes out of the owner occupier sector and thereby taking away people's dignity and independence is just bad. I agree fully with Venger (I hope I'm not taking your name in vain, here) that this doesn't just apply to leveraged landlords, but to all of them. The leveraged ones are simply more likely to experience the hard edge of the consequences of their actions, as political economics turns against them.

[Thorn]

20 hours ago, adarmo said:

No doubt we were lucky and from what I understand from talking to people in the community he is regarded as one of the best landlords in the area. 

Best at what? Evicting families? 

Landlords are Parasites.

When our last one evicted us his wife came round with flowers for my wife. The card attached was the official eviction notice so that we're doing it all legally and "Above board".

So would that be a criterion for us to say He Is One Of The Best Landlords?

No. They are all Legally Protected Parasites.