The HPC Message

[Tapori]

2 hours ago, Venger said:

He could write an article a day about it, and still won't change minds of the foreverHPIers/Gov won't let HPC happen/ get back into your rental boxes and stop being jealous types. 

 

And buyers who are willing to pay these prices for a property (see they pushing and falling over each other of some 25 viewers for a flat in London in article in this thread at £600K+... and into a bidding war it went) make their own minds up, in a market.    Their own view about value.   It's not just something one falls into.  Matter of actively searching in an area, going to viewings, arranging a mortgage, survey, putting in offer (and outbidding many people on here are renters who won't even view at these prices).

Also no one stopping more owners coming to market to try and cash in on these mad-gainz prices in many areas.

Agreed. But more pertinently, the people who do listen to him etc still don't have a clue about house prices. Making them aware is achievable and stops the cancerous lies spreading about "Property is high just because it is."

[Venger]

1 minute ago, Tapori said:

Agreed. But more pertinently, the people who do listen to him etc still don't have a clue about house prices. Making them aware is achievable and stops the cancerous lies spreading about "Property is high just because it is."

 

Yet they do have a clue.  To suggest that projects pure innocence on those who buy year after year, at ever higher prices -vs- in Generation Rent.

We can all see these asking prices.

Full total awareness for anyone even thinking of buying a house.

These prices make me want to dive for cover - not so for many others.

We all can practice caution.

We all have a clue.

Many older owners can tell you exactly 'what it is worth'.

It's a market, and how much by way of 'lies' is it?  A few decades of runway HPI makes it sort of a full reality for many.   

Seem to me you/others are just not happy with the dominant overriding market view that persists in media, and also in conversations around the land for happy with HPI / wanting more HPI, and a few shrugs about prices vs Gen Rent.  Want to project them as victims of a conspiracy, rather than the active market participants that they actually are.    That professor the other day sure doesn't want to 'understand' about any HPCers whiney 'real-truth' message, and millions of others don't either, when it's a threat to their HPI reality/mad-gainz/risk of going into NE.

They are mostly intelligent (they don't need to pass a HPCers test on whether they know enough to buy or sell a house), informed, but just hold a very different market view to many renter-savers, imo.

[Barnsey]

And it’s not defeatist to accept we will never have an impact on the opinions of others, I have always viewed the insightful discussions on here as more personal therapy than attempting to negatively influence the addiction to making copious amounts of invisible money on house price appreciation. Even those friends that were on my side 2-3 years ago have succumbed to the madness of the SE bubble.

For some it could make perfect sense to buy in a flat area of the UK whilst there are some good 5 and 10 year fix deals out there. 

No one ever wants to hear that they’ll lose money, it’s a bit like the looming recession and telling people they’ll possibly lose their job and go bankrupt (again?).

If you feel like you’d gain something personally, even if just therapeutic, to create something that educates the masses, then brilliant. Just don’t get downhearted when you end up with a very low view count for your efforts.

[Tapori]

2 hours ago, Venger said:

 

Yet they do have a clue.  To suggest that projects pure innocence on those who buy year after year, at ever higher prices -vs- in Generation Rent.

We can all see these asking prices.

Full total awareness for anyone even thinking of buying a house.

These prices make me want to dive for cover - not so for many others.

We all can practice caution.

We all have a clue.

Many older owners can tell you exactly 'what it is worth'.

It's a market, and how much by way of 'lies' is it?  A few decades of runway HPI makes it sort of a full reality for many.   

Seem to me you/others are just not happy with the dominant overriding market view that persists in media, and also in conversations around the land for happy with HPI / wanting more HPI, and a few shrugs about prices vs Gen Rent.  Want to project them as victims of a conspiracy, rather than the active market participants that they actually are.    That professor the other day sure doesn't want to 'understand' about any HPCers whiney 'real-truth' message, and millions of others don't either, when it's a threat to their HPI reality/mad-gainz/risk of going into NE.

They are mostly intelligent (they don't need to pass a HPCers test on whether they know enough to buy or sell a house), informed, but just hold a very different market view to many renter-savers, imo.

I think you misunderstood and or don't get that this isn't about "Buyers. It is indeed about general knowledge among the whole population.

venger really appreciate your posts and input but this abiding notion you always re-iterate that all market "Participants are the same" and are somehow all responsible for seeking out a relatively minority consensus (which we are, let's face it no matter how much we base it on "facts," in the face of a corrupt HPI media/establishment position) and should all be condemned because "Well they should know better they have brains don't they?," is incredibly wrong on many levels not least in being entirely dismissive of how people are generally manipulated;. this doesn't absolve all of them depending on context but do you suggest there shouldn't be an organised counter to mainstream HPI discourse that allows the dominant HPI narrative to breed and prevent the very change you seek?

So lets take the Tories who set current policy; they have been forced to shift their position significantly because enough people democratically have shown their discontent politically because they are learning how skewed the HPI narrative is and have voted against the mainstream consensus that states prices should not have interventions and should not be burdened with state house building.

Take a 21 year old graduate renting. To compare that person's access to house price information and knowledge to a 43 year old potential house buyer or a 52 year old BTLer, is both unfair and frankly ludicrous. It's not infantilising them it's simply stating that if there is no counter narrative how would they know vs a baby boomer who may well know as they have been alive to see the marked changes and should be aware moreso of markets. Why is it wrong to make people more aware?

And which markets? Are you stating all buyers and renters are all complicit? If I am forced to rent from an over-leveraged BTLer, am I not also one of these market participants? 

Being forced to participate in a market is different to choosing to. I have to live somewhere right? I have only so much time to read and think whilst working right? People aren't all as clever as you. The idea that by producing any movement to help a shift in HPI opinion is either:

-Absolving buyers (and that all buyers ARE the same simply by "buying") of stupidity

-Useless in the grand context of The powers that be.

-Irrelevant on many levels

-not gonna change much

is just incredibly narrow IMO and frankly really sour and not in the least bit nuanced or fair considering the vast mix of greed, luck, knowledge, manipulation, corruption and circumstance that surrounds human life in matters relating to housing. A small attempt at making people aware of matters that you know and I know and the HPC forum knows should surely be encouraged; not as some reductionist attempt at absolving twats but as part of a wider attempt to fix the situation. Why else doesn the forum exist? Why else did Bland Unsight write his shoblerant? Its not going to change the world but it might contribute to changing one "Participant's" mind. And I'll be damned if that is regarded as somehow a bad thing.

Saying that also doesn't mean that I'll accept the inevitable calls for "Mortgage  bailouts," etc. I shall keep learning from you.

-

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Tapori

[prodigal sheeple]

I had a go at getting the message across. As facts and logical arguments tend to make the audience's eyes glaze over I tried a slightly different approach,  using rock music videos, and a back story claiming that the bankers are part of an intergalactic ponzi scheme. Unfortunately I created a story that no-one wants to hear. 

That is the difficulty. Whether you try to explain clearly and rationally, or you adopt a more bat-shit crazy approach, people just don't want to know. 

Still, it's better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all, so come on HPC'ers, once more into the breach. 

[Venger]

22 minutes ago, Tapori said:

 ....is incredibly wrong on many levels not least in being entirely dismissive of how people are generally manipulated;.

Take a 21 year old graduate renting. To compare that person's access to house price information and knowledge to a 43 year old potential house buyer or a 52 year old BTLer, is both unfair and frankly ludicrous. It's not infantilising them it's simply stating that if there is no counter narrative how would they know vs a baby boomer who may well know as they have been alive to see the marked changes and should be aware moreso of markets. Why is it wrong to make people more aware?

And which markets? Are you stating all buyers and renters are all complicit? If I am forced to rent from an over-leveraged BTLer, am I not also one of these market participants? 

Being forced to participate in a market is different to choosing to. I have to live somewhere right? I have only so much time to read and think whilst working right? People aren't all as clever as you. The idea that by producing any movement to help a shift in HPI opinion is either:

-Absolving buyers (and that all buyers ARE the same simply by "buying") of stupidity

-Useless in the grand context of The powers that be.

-Irrelevant on many levels

-not gonna change much

is just incredibly narrow IMO and frankly really sour and not in the least bit nuanced or fair considering the vast mix of greed, luck, knowledge, manipulation, corruption and circumstance that surrounds human life in matters relating to housing. A small attempt at making people aware of matters that you know and I know and the HPC forum knows should surely be encouraged; not as some reductionist attempt at absolving twats but as part of a wider attempt to fix the situation. Why else doesn the forum exist? Why else did Bland Unsight write his shoblerant? Its not going to change the world but it might contribute to changing one "Participant's" mind. And I'll be damned if that is regarded as somehow a bad thing.

Saying that also doesn't mean that I'll accept the inevitable calls for "Mortgage  bailouts," etc. I shall keep learning from you.

 

It's a nice story... covers all buyers and owners if at risk of market turning down ("brainwashed and manipulated - they didn't know as much as HPCers - begin the bailout")

Well that 21 year old is likely to be heading straight into Generation Rent.

The asking price alone tells them somethings vs their overall position (student debts etc)

Although we're reading of some 20-somethings being bought £600K apartments outright by family - in a market.

My issue is HPCers who want to infantalise everyone, as superiors, even the mad-gainzers/BTLers in a ruthless market - where they're not up at nights reading, whether it is astonishingly clear there is no 'movement/campaign' to get house prices down from the  43- 52 year old buyers/BTLers or mad-gainz owners.

Renting, even from a BTLer, is an option forced on many of us - so there's nothing complicit about it.

However those who choose to buy (9 years held this position on HPC) don't need anyone's approval for their choice from HPC.

They don't need to get a pass from every single HPCer to check if they approve/authorise them.

We all have to make a choice on how we procure housing from the market.   And in a free market people can sell.

At the end of it all we have to 'man-up / woman-up' and take responsiblity for our own owner/buyer choices.

We can't have a housing market where there is no downside (just those who want to offer hugz and 'manipulation' excuses) to paying too ******** much, outbidding all others on Gen Rent side of things.   And BTLers sure make their own choices.

14 hours ago, Venger said:

"It" has been attempted many times in the past.   Too many people don't want to know.

Although I'm not preventing anyone from trying to put out a message about why HPI+++/BTL is so societally destructive, and that houses are for living in, not for treating as speculative HPI+++ raging ego investments.

And I from you Tapori (learning from you).     There's nothing personal in my posts, and I can take your good pushback, as you take mine. 

Go for it... can be worth it for one would-be buyer, sure enough.  Yet at the end of it, many renter-savers been on hard wrong side of the market, and if we want rebalance, some are going to have to get knocked right off their housing perches.

Quote

Oatbake; October 2017:  People should question whether they can afford a mortgage with some kind of contingency in the case of interest rate rises or reduced income. Here we are only ten years later, once again, standing at the precipice.

The bottom line is that nobody thinks they should be responsible for their poor decisions and everything is somebody else's fault. Is it any wonder that everybody has piled into BTL/taking out eye wateringly big mortgages?

Perpetual cycle of this, and excuse all along the way for owner/buyer side, all so innocent in not knowing what the HPCer renter-saver losers know, as prices in London/SE doubled yet again.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Venger

[Tapori]

2 hours ago, Venger said:

 

It's a nice story... covers all buyers and owners if at risk of market turning down ("brainwashed and manipulated - they didn't know as much as HPCers - begin the bailout")

Well that 21 year old is likely to be heading straight into Generation Rent.

The asking price alone tells them somethings vs their overall position (student debts etc)

Although we're reading of some 20-somethings being bought £600K apartments outright by family - in a market.

My issue is HPCers who want to infantalise everyone, as superiors, even the mad-gainzers/BTLers in a ruthless market - where they're not up at nights reading, whether it is astonishingly clear there is no 'movement/campaign' to get house prices down from the  43- 52 year old buyers/BTLers or mad-gainz owners.

Renting, even from a BTLer, is an option forced on many of us - so there's nothing complicit about it.

However those who choose to buy (9 years held this position on HPC) don't need anyone's approval for their choice from HPC.

They don't need to get a pass from every single HPCer to check if they approve/authorise them.

We all have to make a choice on how we procure housing from the market.   And in a free market people can sell.

At the end of it all we have to 'man-up / woman-up' and take responsiblity for our own owner/buyer choices.

We can't have a housing market where there is no downside (just those who want to offer hugz and 'manipulation' excuses) to paying too ******** much, outbidding all others on Gen Rent side of things.   And BTLers sure make their own choices.

And I from you Tapori (learning from you).     There's nothing personal in my posts, and I can take your good pushback, as you take mine. 

Go for it... can be worth it for one would-be buyer, sure enough.  Yet at the end of it, many renter-savers been on hard wrong side of the market, and if we want rebalance,

Perpetual cycle of this, and excuse all along the way for owner/buyer side, all so innocent in not knowing what the HPCer renter-saver losers know, as prices in London/SE doubled yet again.

Agreed upon the clarification; BTLers have little to no sympathy as a collective. If you speculated when you accumalated don't cry when the market turns and your devastated you absolute bastions of incompetent greed.

Will try to keep people aware if I can without absolving the twats. As thankless as it is generally you have renters, OOers and BTLers  with a big chunk of class and BOMAD thrown in and much differences between their levels of implicitness and stupidity. BTLers as much as I want to console some family and friends who are fools, my position matches yours and I have to laugh.

Quote

some are going to have to get knocked right off their housing perches.

With apologies to Liverpool fans

Edited October 21, 2017 by Tapori

[giggler000]

22 hours ago, sPinwheel said:

What about a spokesperson.

 

Paging Killer Bunny....

Certainly a good spokes person would be needed.  I think someone non-political would be good to show it's not related to any party.

I hear Mark Faber is looking for work... 

[Guest]

Any HPC message is too complex (and often disputed).

A couple of 2 minute short animations could have titles tailored to be search engine friendly, easily shared, etc - whilst focussing on the less defensible policies.

e.g. * Help To Buy: Are our taxes being used to sustain high prices - what's the economic case?

* Housing Benefit: Why do our taxes go to private landlords, but not to build more homes?

[Venger]

1 hour ago, Tapori said:

.....A small attempt at making people aware of matters that you know and I know and the HPC forum knows should surely be encouraged; not as some reductionist attempt at absolving twats but as part of a wider attempt to fix the situation. Why else doesn the forum exist? Why else did Bland Unsight write his shoblerant? Its not going to change the world but it might contribute to changing one "Participant's" mind. And I'll be damned if that is regarded as somehow a bad thing.

Saying that also doesn't mean that I'll accept the inevitable calls for "Mortgage  bailouts," etc. I shall keep learning from you.

Something else.   Last 9 years haven't all been 9 years of 'woot HPI' in the MSM, whatsoever.

Plenty of articles urging caution, and even MSM articles outlining severe downsides.

And where comments allowed, plenty of scoffing/doubt prices can fall, many a time.

We have an article here....

Quote

 

Why Labour must become the party of home ownership
Owen Jones

Friday 25 September 2015 11.39 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/25/labour-party-home-ownership-social-housing

+ see comments

 

It's impossible to tell if some reader will read that and pause about buying, or even look to sell.

It's just I got this sensation that 'HPC The Message' was set to inform wider public to 'the truth' and 'make them see how market really is to learn em'.

There's plenty out there - (even many articles setting out why HTB doesn't seem to really help buyers (maybe it will if there's another doubling in prices as owners cast as manipulated victims) no one has been dragging anyone in to buy.

HY; 2 minutes is a long time with video.  I think attention span would drop after 30 seconds.  Get your 'Apprentice' heads on and do it like a TV commercial to pack it all in, for any individual point about the market (eg HTB / taxes) maybe with a poster.   Although maybe you could be straying into 'advice' (?)  Plenty of HPCers thought HPC just around the corner for 9... sheesh even 15 years, thinking buyers the uninformed idiots.   

[Odin]

On 20/10/2017 at 1:11 PM, Now or never said:

Definitely something I would share. With regards to the above point, I would add how housing benefit has made it so attractive at the tax payers expense. Why benefit is paid and who actually benefits.

A bank actually benefits!

Tax the people -> Grant Housing Benefits -> Pay Landlord with mostly IO mortgage -> Bank Interest Payment

So what is really happening is the government are the saviours of the people, they are "helping" them have and keep shelter.  People want to receive HB and the government is doing the right thing.  All in plain sight.

But really the government is taxing the people and giving it to banks.

We're about to see over the next 5 years how many landlords will come out of the deal in a position to keep their property.  Maybe some one can work the numbers on how much of the HB money is benefiting the LL (because it is paying for their lifestyle or repayment of principal sum).  What LTV do you need to be below before there is a surplus HB amount to gain.  What areas a paying the most HB to allow the LL to gain the most at a higher LTV.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Odin

[Tapori]

3 hours ago, Venger said:

Something else.   Last 9 years haven't all been 9 years of 'woot HPI' in the MSM, whatsoever.

Plenty of articles urging caution, and even MSM articles outlining severe downsides.

And where comments allowed, plenty of scoffing/doubt prices can fall, many a time.

We have an article here....

It's impossible to tell if some reader will read that and pause about buying, or even look to sell.

It's just I got this sensation that 'HPC The Message' was set to inform wider public to 'the truth' and 'make them see how market really is to learn em'.

There's plenty out there - (even many articles setting out why HTB doesn't seem to really help buyers (maybe it will if there's another doubling in prices as owners cast as manipulated victims) no one has been dragging anyone in to buy.

HY; 2 minutes is a long time with video.  I think attention span would drop after 30 seconds.  Get your 'Apprentice' heads on and do it like a TV commercial to pack it all in, for any individual point about the market (eg HTB / taxes) maybe with a poster.   Although maybe you could be straying into 'advice' (?)  Plenty of HPCers thought HPC just around the corner for 9... sheesh even 15 years, thinking buyers the uninformed idiots.   

tfw we show something to venger who then tells us like Sugar us we're fired for such a terrible creation

I would say short video/videos edited from a bigger video for those interested. Sorted.

[guest_northshore]

Not so short, but quite good:

 

[Venger]

16th century England..... enclosure?

What about all that stuff we learned about the Egyptians and farmers at school.   How farmers ensured they kept their boundaries with neighbouring farmers when expecting floods (some clever way that I've now forgotten... was it rope?).

How about the Greek Hoplites... that's one reason they were democratic.  Hilly harder to farm plots, owned by many individuals, all with a stake in society - farmer/soldiers, and their olives going off to export and more money spread around individual owners in society in enterprise.  Each with a reason to fight to protect oneself's position and their neighbours.

Possession began when some humans stopped hunter-gathering, and began to settle down, seed and farm the land, the first major Revolution in human society.

Before that there was no concept of ownership of anything - and there wasn't much to own (or steal).

Quote

 

..and of the last Ice Age.  The change in climate appears to have dramatic effects.....the warming of the earth made it impossible for humans in many parts of the Northern Hemisphere to support themselves by hunting large animals.  As the warming progressed, forests of evergreens and beech trees began to take over the grassy plains that had once supported the herds that humans had depended upon for food.  With grazing lands vanishing, animals like the woolly mammoth and the giant elk vanished, hunted to extinction by hungry humans.  Our ancestors seem to have turned to gathering wild grasses, barley and wheat, because it was the only way they could survive.   About 6000 B.C they began planting seeds and became farmers.   Farming was the most sweeping innovation in human existence.  Farming spawned government, civilisation, history, war, writing, and organised religion on a large scale, among other things.  Farming required planning ahead.  Calendars, time-telling.  It was a revolution that spread through the whole of life.

...as farming grew in importance and farm populations expanded they inevitably pushed hunter-gather groups aside.  ...... Disputes.... if two farmers quarrelled it would be unlikely for one to simply abandon his field and wander somewhere else, as foragers could.  ... Farmers had to work much harder than foragers ever did...to prepare the fields and harvest crops in the Northern Hemisphere.  This required the development of private property in land.  No one would work all year to raise a crop if someone else could wander by and freely harvest it.  .....someone had to have the right to exclude others from the produce of the field.

-Davidson

 

....banditry/government/protection-tribute/settlement/force/taxes/crime - made slavery and serfdom a proposition for some minds... farming created other forms of occupational specialisation; artists, architects, builders, craftsmen, jewellers, potters.  

[Venger]

 

Just teasing @Tapori xx 

 

On 30/07/2015 at 8:32 PM, Neverwhere said:

Great article by Dominic Frisby in MoneyWeek, How George Osborne could kill off Britain’s buy-to-let business, extract below:

So where's the HPC...... everyone does have a clue.. can all see asking prices, low inventory on market, many owners know exactly 'what it is worth' (thereabouts), many BTLers, much political choice in policies (QE/HTB), but some can't buy/rent.  Imposed in a way, on to them, with this valuations/wider system that majority don't protest about.   

Certainly I don't see any movement by BTLers/HPIers/Owners to bring prices down.  (Mad-Gainz).  HPCers are not the only ones with 'the truth' - millions of people make their own truth.  Truth is subjective.  Reality is long-wave HPI mad-gainz for many owners, and BTLers who have bought up so many homes over the years, to rent out.  QE/FLS/0.25%/HTB etc etc.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

"Truth is subjective."

 

Arithmetic isn't though.

Edited October 24, 2017 by TheCountOfNowhere

[Tapori]

11 hours ago, Venger said:

 

Just teasing @Tapori xx 

 

So where's the HPC...... everyone does have a clue.. can all see asking prices, low inventory on market, many owners know exactly 'what it is worth' (thereabouts), many BTLers, much political choice in policies (QE/HTB), but some can't buy/rent.  Imposed in a way, on to them, with this valuations/wider system that majority don't protest about.   

Certainly I don't see any movement by BTLers/HPIers/Owners to bring prices down.  (Mad-Gainz).  HPCers are not the only ones with 'the truth' - millions of people make their own truth.  Truth is subjective.  Reality is long-wave HPI mad-gainz for many owners, and BTLers who have bought up so many homes over the years, to rent out.  QE/FLS/0.25%/HTB etc etc.

I feel honored; that's class Venger!

[Errol]

Watch 'The Big Short'. Or 'Margin Call'. That gets the message across pretty quickly.

[oatbake]

OK, I have a (very) rough draft of what I was going to say in my short video but I feel as though it's a bit disjointed and rambling at the moment...

Quote

 

"How do you feel about life right now? If you are under 40, chances are that you may well feel left behind. 

Many of you have been well and truly priced out of the housing market. You have seen house prices race away, increasing much faster than your earnings, and governments of all parties have chosen to turn a blind eye. We champion house price increases as if they are a sign of a successful economy. Do we celebrate high food costs? high energy bills? Why is the cost of housing different?

The current government's answer to all of this is to lend us even more money in the form of 'Help to Buy'. This does nothing but push prices up further still. 
Indeed in 2015, Shelter reported that the scheme has added an average of £8250 to the cost of an average house(1). 

While all this has been going on, we have seen an army of 'Buy to Let landlords' hoovering up homes, especially those typically sought by first time buyers, at an alarming rate. These landlords are able to buy "properties" (or as some would prefer to call them "homes") using much cheaper interest-only mortgages, which are not available to first time buyers. Often, landlords will then rent these same homes back to us, creaming off a healthy profit. The ubiquitous Assured Shorthold Tenancy, mean that families can be evicted through absolutely no fault of their own, incurring moving costs and upheaval on already-stretched families.

It gets worse I'm afraid. These landlords are able to claim tax relief on their mortgage payments, meaning that YOUR TAXES are directly subsidising this madness. 

What can you do about it all?

Well, the first step is to write to your MP demanding that the government take urgent action to sort this out. An urgent and extensive housebuilding programme is required on a scale not seen for decades. The "Help To Buy" scheme must be stopped and Tax relief for landlords' mortgage payments must be abolished in full to level the playing field. 

Secondly, hold the government to account on this important issue and help them to do the right thing over the next four-and-a-half years to secure your vote at the ballot box."

(1)https://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/1188073/2015_09_how_much_help_is_Help_to_Buy.pdf

 

4

I'd welcome any feedback both on the content and how best to present it? I am trying to keep it fairly simple but without skimping on the complexity where it is needed... Just something short and snappy that can be shared to get people asking the right questions... 

I love the idea of a longer video (in the same kind of style as "Brexit: The Movie"; you might not have agreed with the sentiment but it was very well done). It would be good to request interviews with government ministers and opposition party representatives and ask them about their views on the current situation etc. Likewise, Shelter, Generation Rent etc. I'd be more than happy to help with this but I don't have anywhere enough time (or talent!) to produce a full docu on my own...

[Venger]

On 24/10/2017 at 2:58 PM, Tapori said:

I feel honored; that's class Venger!

Thanks Tapori.

Was just taking the p1ss a little re 'HPC The Message' -  It's not just been years of HPI++++ in articles 'can't go wrong' - it's a major decision in owning/buying a house and people are intelligent enough to go through their positions on buying/owning side.

And while I like your view about influencing one mind... making a difference, it seems like a lot of work to play hero.

Many instances the 20 year olds are set to go into Gen Rent, so doesn't matter if they don't understand all the reasons for HPI++++ extemes in many areas.

Many renters know they are renting from a landlord who has their own home, and the home they rent out to tenant/tenants - where they are totally priced out.

We take our positions, and I've taken mine with Renter-Savers -vs- the foreverHPIers, BTLers etc etc.

I believe only market events can change things (the minds/positions of the ForeverHPIers/Rentiers) as a whole, or something from outside - and if it ever happens - then we can't have another repeated about 'The Greatest of All Innocence' for the homeowner side sympathy-fest.   Just look at today, elsewhere on forum, with HPIers casting us as selfish for wanting HPC, and telling us to think of owners, while also parading their mad-gainz vs had he rented for 10 years....

On 24/10/2017 at 10:59 PM, oatbake said:

OK, I have a (very) rough draft of what I was going to say in my short video but I feel as though it's a bit disjointed and rambling at the moment...

I'd welcome any feedback both on the content and how best to present it? I am trying to keep it fairly simple but without skimping on the complexity where it is needed... Just something short and snappy that can be shared to get people asking the right questions... 

I love the idea of a longer video (in the same kind of style as "Brexit: The Movie"; you might not have agreed with the sentiment but it was very well done). It would be good to request interviews with government ministers and opposition party representatives and ask them about their views on the current situation etc. Likewise, Shelter, Generation Rent etc. I'd be more than happy to help with this but I don't have anywhere enough time (or talent!) to produce a full docu on my own...

The Momentum video was very very good (53 seconds).   However has that reached the masses?   Changed much/anything?   Hard to tell.  Some of us felt Corbyn/Labour wasn't to be overlooked because they young can see, and may come out to protest the way things are with a vote for him (of course some may fully believe in him too).

It's hard to get someone to understand something when their mad-gainz depend on not understanding.

What... like Chris Chope recently (October 24, 2017)

 It seems to me he has 'the solution'  (just like so many owners do... and it doesn't involve seeing value of their homes fall back to any level of affordability.) 

If you're expecting them to come into the light, and cuddles for the wisdom for 'HPC The Message' - you are going to be disappointed imo.   Or maybe you won't and think it just requires another HPC Message to get through to them.    They are not stupid, not lacking in intelligence, they just see the market their way.   Now get back into your rented box and work harder and harder.

Quote

 

Help to buy, stamp duty holiday, and shared equity, all policies designed to ramp up house prices and reward Tory voting baby boomers with unearned wealth, via destroying their children's and grandchildren's futures. 

And here you are advocating every single one of those policies, plus want the gov to further subsidize the feeding frenzy via allowing rent to buy access to s106 funds. 

......... Its a damn shame your majority is so large. You deserve to lose your job.

https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/10/chris-chope-changing-the-rules-on-rent-to-buy-would-unlock-billions-in-private-investment.html

 

There was more in that comment, including the person claiming the MP a landlord, but I do not know the accuracy of that, so not going to quote that part.

Priced Out/Gen Rent are active campaign groups.   They are also up against many who love HPI/HPI wealth.  There are many powerful interests (including homeowners) who don't want to accept any HPC Message.  They're not just sat there waiting to learn 'the HPC truth' cuddlez.

[Venger]

On 24/10/2017 at 2:58 PM, Tapori said:

I feel honored; that's class Venger!

 

BTW I drew inspiration for my little video from here....

 

 

[wsn03]

On ‎24‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:59 PM, oatbake said:

OK, I have a (very) rough draft of what I was going to say in my short video but I feel as though it's a bit disjointed and rambling at the moment...

I'd welcome any feedback both on the content and how best to present it? I am trying to keep it fairly simple but without skimping on the complexity where it is needed... Just something short and snappy that can be shared to get people asking the right questions... 

I love the idea of a longer video (in the same kind of style as "Brexit: The Movie"; you might not have agreed with the sentiment but it was very well done). It would be good to request interviews with government ministers and opposition party representatives and ask them about their views on the current situation etc. Likewise, Shelter, Generation Rent etc. I'd be more than happy to help with this but I don't have anywhere enough time (or talent!) to produce a full docu on my own...

Is anything happening with this? Thanks