You earn minimum wage, what is your budget for happiness?

[Guest]

Full time minimum wage is £1,181.50 a month or £1,067.35 net.

You will work full time and cannot live with parents. What city would you live in? Why? Would you go on holiday? Do you need a holiday? How much would you spend on housing? What % is that? How often and how much would you spend/budget to drink alcohol? Smoke? Go to the pub?

Could live close to work and surrender a huge segment of your pay in housing costs but be less stressed and have a better social life OR Live in a cheap or potentially rough area and commute in.

What is the most rational decision? (Besides improving their own opportunities) What should they do to optimise happiness and lifestyle?

On this salary you won't go without internet, food, shelter or water or some light entertainment. But you won't feel rich. Can this person lead a meaningful life?

If two people pooled their resources but lived lightweight lives, on £2,134 a month, equivalent to 33k, they could still save a worthwhile amount of money.

 

If someone on minimum wage could live a meaningful life - why can't people earning more do it?

[prodigal sheeple]

I live a meaningful life on £100 per week. The tricky bit is planning for next years' pay cut on a zero hours contract. If you are lucky enough to still  have a full time minimum wage job then enjoy it while you can. 

[whitevanman]

Living independently on NMW = totally skint.

Roadkill cuisine: It's fun, it's free, it's tasty.

[StainlessSteelCat]

Develop cheap or free experience based hobbies that are social and have some element of planning/anticipation.  Research shows that's the way to get maximum happiness from your money. Hill walking and cycling are probably good ones as they also get you outside and provide exercise so also act as mood lifters.

I reckon teaming up with spouse or friend is the way to live. You'll each have the run of a house rather than a bedsit or room in a crowded shared house. 2BR houses/flats in the North or Wales can be found for around £500/month. Other bills also halved.  You could easily come away with close on £500 of more or less discretionary income.

A bicycle is your transport. 

I do know people on not much more than minimum wage who are able to fund trips to Australia once every five years or so.

I manage comfortably on < minimum wage - but that's a matter of choice which makes a big difference. Plus I own my own place which makes a massive difference.

[Frank Hovis]

Prior to seeing the programme on minimum wage jobs earlier in the year I would have said that a minimum wage job takes less out of you but some of those minimum wage jobs, harvesting springs to mind, are incredibly hard.

IME the people on decent wages who complain about being skint are perpetually frittering away money with their often clutching a chain's cardboard coffee cup being a very good diagnostic.

If you can't walk past a coffee shop without feeling the need to dive in and spend £3 then you are going to be chucking it away on unecessary costs in a myriad of other ways.

I have takeaway coffees, but about ten a year when out somewhere. Not ten a week.

[MrPin]

Ah! The posh coffee syndrome. Endemic round here. If you don't keep a check on these small luxuries, you will have no money left.

[SarahBell]

8 hours ago, phantominvestor said:

Full time minimum wage is £1,181.50 a month or £1,067.35 net.

You will work full time and cannot live with parents. What city would you live in? Why? Would you go on holiday? Do you need a holiday? How much would you spend on housing? What % is that? How often and how much would you spend/budget to drink alcohol? Smoke? Go to the pub?

Could live close to work and surrender a huge segment of your pay in housing costs but be less stressed and have a better social life OR Live in a cheap or potentially rough area and commute in.

If someone on minimum wage could live a meaningful life - why can't people earning more do it?

Ah I found your problem.
Lemonade income, champagne lifestyle.

Where should people on minimum wage live?
They should live where they can afford.

[notMyName]

I think this is too based on London with talk of commuting etc. I can commute into Sheffield city centre in about 15 mins using my own 2 feet.

[canbuywontbuy]

Assuming no reponsibilities other than to look after myself....

• I'd rent a one-bed apartment somewhere on the Clyde - an unfashionable place like Largs or Gourock - rent is circa £350 a month.
• No car, just a bike. 
• I'm assuming work is bikeable (for me up to 7 or 8 miles away max). 
• No TV, no TV licence
• will cook all meals / sandiwches for lunch, occasional takeaway chips once a week or so
• cheap booze from the supermarket, no pub
• for entertainment, go on 3 hour bike rides Saturday & Sunday, go on walks (rock 'n' roll lifestyle)
• internet as entertainment as well

It actually sounds like bliss to me - until I realised I'd have to work 40 hours a week in a NMW job - I'm guessing the job would be boring, thus disturbing the equilibrium of all of the above, and actually I'll end up wanting to be thrill-seeking or a drug addict due to the drudgery of the job.

[Riedquat]

I've no idea and I'm too lazy to do the sums... Holidays as such I could easily enough do without, although since I've got relatives on the edge of the Lake District spending time there doesn't really cost beyond the travel in getting there. I've no desire for more social life than can be provided by a decent local pub, but right at the top of my list of things for happiness is living in attractive surroundings, so the biggest problem I'd have is struggling to live somewhere pleasant, ease of travel means that the best places to live get bought up by the rich, with much less mix than in the past, and there seems to be no interest in trying to make everywhere pleasant.

[crashmonitor]

You don't really need a lot to live off at the moment when it comes to disposable goods like food, clothes etc. A lot of  my budget goes on taxes and fuel. I share a house with my partner, gave up work in April and live mortgage free with a house that according to zo[pla has an imputed rent of £1100 pcm.

 

Car (I stand myself0

Insurance 200

Breakdown 100

Fuel         600

Repairs   400.

Depreciation 400............................1700

House (1/2)

Repairs                 1500

council tax Band E 1000

Heating                    300

Other                       500 ............3300

Food/ dining out..........................1000

sundries......................................1500

total.............................................7500

probably averaged a bit less than that over the last ten years and saved massively whilst working.

 

 

[JoeDavola]

34 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

the biggest problem I'd have is struggling to live somewhere pleasant, ease of travel means that the best places to live get bought up by the rich, with much less mix than in the past, and there seems to be no interest in trying to make everywhere pleasant.

This is my thoughts exactly - I'd much rather have a small house or flat somewhere where I was surrounded by beautiful parks/architecture ect...basically nice communal space, than spending a ton on a massive house miles away from anything. But there isn't really that many nice places out there, and beyond the big cities I get the impression that people don't really care about what's outside their house so are just as happy living in areas of endless dull suburbia.

[Riedquat]

6 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

This is my thoughts exactly - I'd much rather have a small house or flat somewhere where I was surrounded by beautiful parks/architecture ect...basically nice communal space, than spending a ton on a massive house miles away from anything. But there isn't really that many nice places out there, and beyond the big cities I get the impression that people don't really care about what's outside their house so are just as happy living in areas of endless dull suburbia.

Well the small house miles from anywhere sounds ideal for me if the surroundings are nice, but that probably wouldn't work for this thread since I'd be very lucky to have a job that the transport costs wouldn't be a killer for. I can understand the quiet and remote appeal, since I love it myself. I can understand city centre appeal, although it has none for me. Suburbia though is beige writ large. There might well be uglier, there might well be more difficult, but there's nowhere so utterly devoid of any life or soul. I can only assume that to be happy in such a place requires no ability whatsoever to appreciate the world and an easy ability to be find and pleased by banal distractions, which probably makes it a fail for this thread too.

[Hail the Tripod]

1 hour ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Assuming no responsibilities other than to look after myself....

And there's the rub.

I need very little. Attracting a desirable wife and maintaining a wife and kids requires 100 times more than I would ever need for my personal needs.

[man o' the year]

6 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Prior to seeing the programme on minimum wage jobs earlier in the year I would have said that a minimum wage job takes less out of you but some of those minimum wage jobs, harvesting springs to mind, are incredibly hard.

IME the people on decent wages who complain about being skint are perpetually frittering away money with their often clutching a chain's cardboard coffee cup being a very good diagnostic.

If you can't walk past a coffee shop without feeling the need to dive in and spend £3 then you are going to be chucking it away on unecessary costs in a myriad of other ways.

I have takeaway coffees, but about ten a year when out somewhere. Not ten a week.

I have coffee too, for free! Waitrose is your friend!

[Guest TheBlueCat]

3 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said:

It actually sounds like bliss to me - until I realised I'd have to work 40 hours a week in a NMW job - I'm guessing the job would be boring, thus disturbing the equilibrium of all of the above, and actually I'll end up wanting to be thrill-seeking or a drug addict due to the drudgery of the job.

The job is all. I think I'd be fine with something primarily outside - postman if that's still possible, street sweeper etc. - but most inside minimum wage jobs are likely to be hellish (bottom wiping in a nursing home, checkout at Tescos etc.).

[Frank Hovis]

2 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

The job is all. I think I'd be fine with something primarily outside - postman if that's still possible, street sweeper etc. - but most inside minimum wage jobs are likely to be hellish (bottom wiping in a nursing home, checkout at Tescos etc.).

That programme I referenced was the eye opener for me. I presumed NMW meant dossing about jobs like security guard but these jobs were hard work some of which I would struggle to do for a day let alone a week.

In raising the NMW so much you end up with hard jobs paying no more than easy jobs which isn't right.

[JoeDavola]

14 hours ago, phantominvestor said:

Full time minimum wage is £1,181.50 a month or £1,067.35 net.

You will work full time and cannot live with parents. What city would you live in? Why? Would you go on holiday? Do you need a holiday? How much would you spend on housing?

.....

On this salary you won't go without internet, food, shelter or water or some light entertainment. But you won't feel rich. Can this person lead a meaningful life?

If two people pooled their resources but lived lightweight lives, on £2,134 a month, equivalent to 33k, they could still save a worthwhile amount of money.

 

If someone on minimum wage could live a meaningful life - why can't people earning more do it?

Joe Davola's guide to being a HPC miser. Based on Joe's own life:

Entertainment - with a kindle, a chromebook with HDMI out and a smart TV you really have all the equipment you need for entertainment. Smartphones are cheap and that's the music side of things sorted - I've got a HiFi but I never use it, just use my smartphone plugged into a Cambrige Audio speaker. I reckon you could get all of the above for about £700 all in if you were happy buying second hand. Don't use the BBC and hence avoid the TV license, with the money you've saved you'll be able to pay for Netflix and Spotify, the sum of which are much better value than the beeb. All the things that people used to need to store, e.g. hifi's, piles of VHS tapes/DVD's/CDs ect...you don't need any of that since you're going completely digital, which means you need less space in your gaff.

Commuting - build a life where you don't need a car. Walk/cycle everywhere for day-to-day life, use public transport for the times you want to venture further (which is typically only weekends and holidays anyway). Buy a decent quality second hand hybrid bike for say £250. The moderate exercise you now naturally take during day to day life will help keep you lean and healthy. No need for a gym membership.

Food - make your own. End of. Not going to get into a diet debate, but only eat things that you could grow or kill. Buying food/coffee from cafe's/restaurants only when socializing, and even then why not just invite your mates round to your house and cook for them. Oh and of course don't be a smoker or spend your evenings propping up a bar as that'll cost you a bomb and will wreck your health.

Housing - This is where it gets difficult doesn't it? I live alone, but I think it's probably better financially and for one's mental health if you can find the right person to share with. Be that a romantic partner or a friend. Location-wise, commuting distance to your job, and within say 5 miles of something of natural beauty, say parks or cycle trails or something like that, would be ideal.

Holidays - travel is great, but I think some people see travel as everything because they dislike their day-to-day life so much. If you had a present commute to a job you liked and nice places to be at the weekend nearby, you mightn't feel as hard done by if you couldn't go on holiday lots.

I think two people on that minimum wage could put together that kinda life and live quite happily. Problem is most couples I know don't really have anything in common so the things that they 'do' together are basically expensive holidays and eating in restaurants (often eating in restaurants once or twice a week), which kinda blows that plan outta the water. Add 2 cars to the mix too, one of which is reasonably high end to keep up appearances at social events.

[JoeDavola]

Oh and I'd like to add that I think my ideal life, assuming I remained child-less, would be to live in a small flat with a nice view somewhere reasonably warm, and dry, with nice places to cycle and somewhere picturesque within easy cycling distance where I could take a little kayak out for a paddle. With that, the internet, and a couple of guitars I could lead a very enjoyable life I think. Wouldn't need anything else.

[spunko2010]

8 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Prior to seeing the programme on minimum wage jobs earlier in the year I would have said that a minimum wage job takes less out of you but some of those minimum wage jobs, harvesting springs to mind, are incredibly hard.

IME the people on decent wages who complain about being skint are perpetually frittering away money with their often clutching a chain's cardboard coffee cup being a very good diagnostic.

If you can't walk past a coffee shop without feeling the need to dive in and spend £3 then you are going to be chucking it away on unecessary costs in a myriad of other ways.

I have takeaway coffees, but about ten a year when out somewhere. Not ten a week.

What if its the free Waitrose coffee - oft discussed on here?

[Frank Hovis]

1 hour ago, JoeDavola said:

Oh and I'd like to add that I think my ideal life, assuming I remained child-less, would be to live in a small flat with a nice view somewhere reasonably warm, and dry, with nice places to cycle and somewhere picturesque within easy cycling distance where I could take a little kayak out for a paddle. With that, the internet, and a couple of guitars I could lead a very enjoyable life I think. Wouldn't need anything else.

I only have the one guitar and it's a house not a flat; but otherwise that's also what I wanted and now have.

I just now need to be brave enough to think I'll be OK without the crutch of work.

[JoeDavola]

18 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I only have the one guitar and it's a house not a flat; but otherwise that's also what I wanted and now have.

I just now need to be brave enough to think I'll be OK without the crutch of work.

Perhaps a 3 day working week if such a thing is possible for you.

Here in Belfast the only downside is the weather, but it's small enough that if I could afford a suitable house in South Belfast I'm only 2 miles from the absolute center of the city, and about 5 mins cycle to the lagan toepath, which is really nice, and a few miles in has a spot where there's little kayak club apparently. And I'd be about 20 minute walk away from work. That's a pretty good life I reckon for an average pleb!

 

[davidg]

I live on a lot less than NMW but I have a wife who pays half. I spend around 800 euros a month, about a third of my salary but I have no housing costs. My wife spends more than me, but largely on handbags, we have a house full of them. You open a cupboard and bloody handbags fall out. Some of them are worth more second hand then she paid for them, so I guess you could call it an investment.

[council dweller]

Spunko....

Well , you go to waitrose customer service and ask for a Waitrose card. I think you can also get one if you show a receipt .

Either way you`ll finally be given a paper cup.

My routine is to go  on sunday to the boot sale, read the newspapers in their café, check out their recycle place and the go home by motorbicycle.

Seldom spend anything.

 

[StainlessSteelCat]

26 minutes ago, davidg said:

I live on a lot less than NMW but I have a wife who pays half. I spend around 800 euros a month, about a third of my salary but I have no housing costs. My wife spends more than me, but largely on handbags, we have a house full of them. You open a cupboard and bloody handbags fall out. Some of them are worth more second hand then she paid for them, so I guess you could call it an investment.

Even if they weren't she'd still call them an investment. I guess we all have our blindspots. Bloke next door has a tiny lawn but 5 petrol driven mowers.