M25 And Traffic Generally

[spyguy]

I park in a cul-de-sac. Parking permit required from the council, so we're talking people living in the surrounding area (terraced housing and HMOs).

2 years ago, no problem, could park in my usual spot every time.

Now, can barely park in there at all. It's 50/50 if I get to park anywhere in that cul-de-sac at all. Usually I have to cruise around the area and take what I can get and walk a bit.

Very anecdotal, and the cul-de-sac isnt very big. For all I know a couple of people have bought wheels and that's enough to make what is otherwise a very noticeable difference, enough to cross that fine line between 'everybody who wants to park in there can every night' to 'musical chairs rules apply'. Still. Anecdotally at least congestion is way worse.

If its like the cul-de-sac where a friend lives then its mum + da with cars, then boomerang kids with cars too.

Most were built with 2 spaces. Now need 4+.

[spyguy]

Motorbikes are fun!

Being run over by an 80 year old in automatic and the eyes of Mr Magoo is not.

[billybong]

I park in a cul-de-sac. Parking permit required from the council, so we're talking people living in the surrounding area (terraced housing and HMOs).

2 years ago, no problem, could park in my usual spot every time.

Now, can barely park in there at all. It's 50/50 if I get to park anywhere in that cul-de-sac at all. Usually I have to cruise around the area and take what I can get and walk a bit.

Very anecdotal, and the cul-de-sac isnt very big. For all I know a couple of people have bought wheels and that's enough to make what is otherwise a very noticeable difference, enough to cross that fine line between 'everybody who wants to park in there can every night' to 'musical chairs rules apply'. Still. Anecdotally at least congestion is way worse.

Many councils have also significantly extended parking restrictions over recent years so more people looking for fewer available parking places in lots of areas. Helps towards paying for the council executive's wages and pensions merry-go-round. People having to look for parking spaces increases the increased congestion.

Then they'll be trying to introduce more congestion charge zones for council executive's wages and pensions - as well as the London congestion charge fees shooting up.

[billybong]

The whole London and M25 area might be exceptionally awful but just about everywhere has got worse, so I think blaming things on London-centric views is missing the problem (up to a point, it certainly doesn't help matters for people around there). As usual, we mostly need fewer people. And less travelling although that'll make travelling easier, which results in more travelling. If you make somewhere decent now practical to commute from you've made most of its local business unviable, and the even the cheap (relatively speaking) houses get bought up by people from elsewhere who can now commute from them. I don't see a solution to that vicious circle.

+1

Since say1997 to date the British population is officially supposed to have grown by about 12% (about 58 million to about 65 million) but congestion on the roads most everywhere seems to be well out of proportion compared to that.

Even the number of cars/vehicles "on the road" increasing by about 20/30% in that period doesn't explain the increased levels of congestion.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/299972/average-age-of-cars-on-the-road-in-the-united-kingdom/

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/352898/vls-q2-2014.pdf

That out of proportion increase in congestion is despite a visible increase in small motor bikes on the roads this year.

[Bloo Loo]

I've been commuting weekly, from the top of Northants, to Somerset for six years. So, A14, M6, M42, and M5. 160 miles one way. The traffic now, is way worse than when I started. Gets worse every year.

growf init....

[pl1]

Mass immigration to the UK, I would think many immigrants take the train, causing a knock on effect leading to more UK drivers on the road.

Traffic reports much longer then even five years ago. Like War and Peace.

Loads more cars in driveways now then ten years ago correlate with massive number of dormers appearing ie HMO's, Millenials living at home, would mean cul-de-sac parking must be a nightmare.

[Sledgehead]

.... tolling should really be done on a GPS system rather than per road - then all miles can be billed. This prevents the rat running you've described and overall you get a polluter pays based disincentive to drive.

Privatisation of motoring is the way to go.

Better still, charge a little more per mile when there is conjestion, to force people to balance routes, and let them know this in some way.

Maybe you could do this by looking at fuel economy, plus miles travelled. Kinda like :

reciprocal_of_miles_per_gallon x miles

Simplifying the above:

gallons

Yeah, we're getting somewhere here. Maybe charge some kinda tax on that. Maybe you could call it something fancy, like, I dunno, fuel duty.

[spunko2010]

So Farage was right about his comments regarding migrants clogging up the M4 then.

[Riedquat]

Better still, charge a little more per mile when there is conjestion, to force people to balance routes, and let them know this in some way.

There aren't generally practical alternatives that aren't already busy. The only obvious exception is the heavily under-used M6 Toll.

[Rave]

40 from a 230hp 2.5t petrol (LPG) 7 seater. Double these as lpg £0.48p/l.

S-Max? Or a Volvo of some description? Would be interested to know. I have no particular need to get rid of my Mondeo Mk3 3.0 GhiaX wagon, but as and when it does expire the logical replacement would be a 2.5T Mk4. I had heard that they were very thirsty though. The 3.0 is dreadful in traffic, but does 32-33mpg at 70mph, 35-36 at 62-65mph, and I can just about coax 40 out of it if I bimble along at 56mph. I don't do nearly enough miles to bother with LPG (apparently the Duratec V6 is prone to receding valve seats on LPG anyway).

[billybong]

There aren't generally practical alternatives that aren't already busy. The only obvious exception is the heavily under-used M6 Toll.

Either they're already busy or the access to the alternative routes have been recently blocked off by stuff like No Entry signs. For the secondary roads and streets.

Then there's the crazy one way systems that effectively end up in cul-de-sacs so you have to return the way you came (in a roundabout manner). Not to mention the traffic lights changed to roundabouts changed back to traffic lights changed back to roundabouts.

So increasing numbers of vehicles and increasingly awful, intolerable and expensive congestion is being countered by far fewer parking spaces and less access to alternative routes - seems like a plan or at least a plan by non drivers.

[spyguy]

It does seemto point at the future of any large commercial/office sites being near -less than 1 mile - from a railway station.

Going back to my M4 corridor comments, Reading station concourse would be a good place as Reading is major raiway intersection. John majskakaakkiii did try to knock the area down and rebuild it - but it was for shops.

I think the M4 corridor, which depends on cars is dead now. Just cannot travel meaningful distances.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Dual income dependent households put a lot more traffic on the roads at rush hour. The chances of two people being able to get and retain jobs within easy reach of the home is reduced from a single earner household. Maybe they choose to live somewhere mutually (in)convenient, or lump one person with the bulk of it.

Anecdote from family of close friend.

His dad had a commute of 40 miles/week on local roads, new build house in the locale of workplace. Stay home wife 1980s.

Now the same person, retired, is driving 50 miles/week at rush hour on motorway, in order to get across to his child's house in time to babysit and allow his son and his son's wife to go out on their respective commutes to work, circa 200 miles/week on top.

So from 1 car to 3 cars in order to do the same job as before.

[The Knimbies who say No]

In some ways people are reaping what they sow, they wanted insane house prices and Osborne etc have delivered in a spectacular fashion. The payback is that they now have to work for free in the childcare business, in order to make sure Carney's pals get paid their lovely interest on all that extra debt.

In my view it is just another way in which insane housing costs are severely degrading the quality of life in the UK by social and environmental destruction.

[Riedquat]

Either they're already busy or the access to the alternative routes have been recently blocked off by stuff like No Entry signs. For the secondary roads and streets.

For those small roads that you could use to cut off a corner quite how much difference would it make if it was encouraged? You'd probably just end up with another jammed up residential street. Sometimes alternatives are only viable at all because hardly anyone uses them, they wouldn't be much use in the wider scheme of things.

[Riedquat]

In my view it is just another way in which insane housing costs are severely degrading the quality of life in the UK by social and environmental destruction.

Because people could live closer to work if houses weren't so insane? That would require travelling to get harder, not easier. If it's viable to travel far then you both increase centralisation of jobs and increase the distance people can realistically travel, which makes the desirable areas even more desirable and pushes everyone else out further.

[DEATH]

Innovative parking in Glasgow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37154123

[billybong]

For those small roads that you could use to cut off a corner quite how much difference would it make if it was encouraged? You'd probably just end up with another jammed up residential street. Sometimes alternatives are only viable at all because hardly anyone uses them, they wouldn't be much use in the wider scheme of things.

When they were available they were useful and they weren't at all jammed (I guess with current policies in time they would eventually be). Now No Entry so you've no choice but to stay on the main road which has also had traffic lights introduced at regular intervals - now you just have to stay in the long queue even if you live on the No Entry street. You've now got to go driveabout to get there. I agree that eventually you get to the traffic point where you just end up with another jammed up street but it wasn't there yet - it's the ever increasing vehicle numbers on existing infrastructure that's the problem - so many more family members having to work and drive etc etc etc.

Real declines in quality of life and standard of living etc.

[Frank Hovis]

That's something to look forward to.

Though with Japan having very strong immigration controls they should have a population decline so that this horror gradually improves: traffic goes down, house prices fall, pollution declines etc.

[MrPin]

People are driving further to use up the fuel, because they have bought smaller cars.

[Dorkins]

That's something to look forward to.

Though with Japan having very strong immigration controls they should have a population decline so that this horror gradually improves: traffic goes down, house prices fall, pollution declines etc.

The population is falling in Japan, but only in rural areas so it's doing nothing to improve living standards in the cities. Same thing could easily happen in Britain as we have the same demographic split of older rural vs younger urban.

[winkie]

Maybe the idea is to make driving in some places or to some places so intolerable they give up...refuse to work or travel in certain places....life is too short.

[One-percent]

Maybe the idea is to make driving in some places or to some places so intolerable they give up...refuse to work or travel in certain places....life is too short.

They have already tried this around London, see title of thread. Not worked as yet....

[winkie]

They have already tried this around London, see title of thread. Not worked as yet....

Well once you would avoid the north circular and use M25....now the other way around.

[The Generation Game]

Maybe the idea is to make driving in some places or to some places so intolerable they give up...refuse to work or travel in certain places....life is too short.

Worked for me.