Democracy

[The Masked Tulip]

sh!t

these are ugly times

Look at the other videos on there of the protest - loads of people have a go at her. Brave lady.

[Frank Hovis]

"Take that to Jo Cox's children"

FFS

[SarahBell]

What is it about democracy that people don't understand? The majority voted out for whatever reason. (In my case, and I'm sure that of many others, the reason wasn't racism or wishing to stop immigration.) Why bother to have non-binding referenda? What is the point of letting the people think THEY have a choice when government debates and overturns the majority decision because some people (the minority) don't like it? Is popularity more important than the fate of our country? I despair. This whole débâcle makes me want to emigrate. I miss Daft Boy; we used to have long discussions about politics.

Rant over.

Indeed.

My mate is telling me there's lots of ranting about 'old people shouldn't have a vote' .. replace old with jew or black and it'd be a completely shocking statement that no one in their right mind would make.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth of the young who want to continue to suck on the teat of Europe is quite horrific.

[The Masked Tulip]

Indeed.

My mate is telling me there's lots of ranting about 'old people shouldn't have a vote' .. replace old with jew or black and it'd be a completely shocking statement that no one in their right mind would make.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth of the young who want to continue to suck on the teat of Europe is quite horrific.

Germans offering citizenship to YOUNG Brits.

[Dorkins]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

[knock out johnny]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

People(and not just this site) seriously need to educate themselves how a parliamentary sovereign democracy works and what a non-binding referendum means.

The remainers look like petulant children (because they don't understand parliamentary sovereignty either)

I've posted several times on this and I'm tired of trying to explain it

If anyone thinks clause 50 and exit is baked in are gonna have a rude awakening

For the record, I'm brexit in my heart and bremain in my head and voted bremain

What I'm communicating is in a first year law degree - it's not pariculary esoteric and I wish the media would expain this as opposed to the yaaabooo bs that is passing for political debate at the moment

[Economic Exile]

People(and not just this site) seriously need to educate themselves how a parliamentary sovereign democracy works and what a non-binding referendum means.

The remainers look like petulant children (because they don't understand parliamentary sovereignty either)

I've posted several times on this and I'm tired of trying to explain it

If anyone thinks clause 50 and exit is baked in are gonna have a rude awakening

For the record, I'm brexit in my heart and bremain in my head and voted bremain

What I'm communicating is in a first year law degree

Do you think a second referendum will resolve much regarding a divided population in the current state of affairs in the uk?

IMO if leave won again many remainers will still act like petulant children.

On the other hand if remain won I would guess many of the leave demonstrations would be angrier and possibly some violent.

[knock out johnny]

Do you think a second referendum will resolve much regarding a divided population in the current state of affairs in the uk?

IMO if leave won again many remainers will still act like petulant children.

On the other hand if remain won I would guess many of the leave demonstrations would be angrier and possibly some violent.

A second referendum could come out 49.9 50.1 - it would resolve nothing

The issues are that it was declared non binding in the legislation - and there is a very good reason for that. And it's not because it might be the wrong answer

As I say, remainers are behaving like tw@ts

I've posted in other threads the ins and outs of constitutional law and pasted commentaries of an eloquence and clarity that I could never come close to

Referendums are populist politiking at their basest and most manipulative

[dgul]

The other strange anti-democratic movement at the moment is regarding Corbyn

The party needed a new leader. The members voted him in. The senior members hate him - first opportunity they can they get the knives out.

Instead of 'this is the sort of thing that the members/voters want. I must speak with them and understand their needs so that I can represent them better' it becomes 'I must unilaterally attack his policies, and if I do speak with the members it will be to convince them they're wrong'

Democracy has always been complicated, but no-one (in the media) seems to be discussing these deeply worrying anti-democratic moves.

[knock out johnny]

EU referendum: government faces legal action over Brexit decision

http://gu.com/p/4nky7?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[stormymonday_2011]

A second referendum could come out 49.9 50.1

The issues are that it was declared non binding in the legislation

As I say, remainers are behaving like tw@ts

I've posted in other threads the ins and outs of constitutional law and pasted commentaries of an eloquence and clarity that I could never come close to

Referendums are populist politiking at its basest and most manipulative

Politicians generally only call referenda when they are confident of the outcome. Cameron was expecting the UK relationship with the EU to be endorsed just as it was in the Wilson era back in 1975 . Like Wilson he also hoped to use the vote to silence critics in his own party and to kill off the issue nationally.

The problem was he did not get the result he expected

As a consequence the Referendum was saying some fairly profound things about the UK itself not just its relationship with the EU. Parliament can indeed override or finesse the result of the Referendum and pretend to continue as if nothing happened. However, if the tides of history are flowing as fast as I suspect then all the legal arguments may well be about to be washed away whether we stay in the EU or leave because either way I dont think the status quo ante is not going to be an option. I dont see the current constitutional and political set up of the UK surviving either Brexit or the move to much closer European integration that is almost certainly going to be the EU response to the Referendum result even if we ultimately dont leave.

[knock out johnny]

.

[EUBanana]

Referenda are a pretty stupid idea in general - however, in this case, where all your representatives for years have just lied about this non-stop, I make an exception.

Look at all the "eurosceptics" who when push came to shove were anything but. When the elite is conspiring against the plebs so openly, the elites need to be bypassed, and the referendum provided an avenue to do that, at least.

[Wahoo]

What angers me is that they are very well paid, very well pensioned, all seem to be home by4PM each day and live within a couple of miles of where they work... and they are always moaning about how hard done by they are.

Yes....they're twaaaaaats

[knock out johnny]

Politicians generally only call referenda when they are confident of the outcome. Cameron was expecting the UK relationship with the EU to be endorsed just as it was in the Wilson era back in 1975 . Like Wilson he also hoped to use the vote to silence critics in his own party and to kill off the issue nationally.

The problem was he did not get the result he expected

Yes - cameron was an idiot and has compounded his misjudgement with cowardice

I agree with you that the referendum has exposed fault lines that westminster has either deliberately ignored or been unaware of

However, if the tides of history are flowing as fast as I suspect then all the legal arguments may well be about to be washed away whether we stay in the EU or leave because either way I dont think the status quo ante is not going to be an option. I dont see the current constitutional and political set up of the UK surviving either Brexit or the move to much closer European integration that is almost certainly going to be the EU response to the Referendum result even if we ultimately dont leave.

Constitutional law (and I realise I'm being a bore on this subject) is pretty much immutable. Saying you don't like or agree with constitutional law because you don't like or agree with it is a cop out and not going to wash (if you want flexibilty and expediency go run for office in Mogadishu; and make sure you've got plenty of guns)

I'm not super smart, but I do understand why politicos don't do precisely what we want on everything

Politicians generally only call referenda when they are confident of the outcome. Cameron was expecting the UK relationship with the EU to be endorsed just as it was in the Wilson era back in 1975 . Like Wilson he also hoped to use the vote to silence critics in his own party and to kill off the issue nationally.

The problem was he did not get the result he expected

[RichB]

The way they played that murder did swing me. If I had voted I would have been all for leave as a result.

[the gardener]

The way they played that murder did swing me. If I had voted I would have been all for leave as a result.

Why didn't you vote?

[SarahBell]

Germans offering citizenship to YOUNG Brits.

Germany has always liked it's youth.

[Goat]

Germans offering citizenship to YOUNG Brits.

Presumably followed up with demands for mandatory quotas for other EU states if anybody actually takes them up on this.

[MrPin]

Germany has always liked it's youth.

Lederhosen.

[MrPin]

I like democracy, even when it doesn't agree with me.

[winkie]

I have on occasions done the wife's hair colouring with fairly successful results but she prefers having it done at the hairdressers. I think the actual ritual of the process is quite important to her as it is to a lot of women. It is part of their armour for confronting an often hostile world. For example, the late Barbara Castle would confront any ministerial or political crisis by first getting her hair done. Personally I think the cost is outrageous but then I am a person who gave up the barber's for a Number 3 cut with Wahl clippers years ago. Men have their own extravagances but they tend to be on different things such as mechanical toys of all sorts.

The cost is outrageous.....going to the hairdressers is one thing £80 a go is quite another..... democracy means we are free to choose. My hairdresser will do a better job for £15 than another place where I paid double that, only takes on new clients by invitation only, prices haven't gone up in last three years.... doesn't want more work and clients give as much in entertainment and friendship as they give in hairdressing skill.

....there are many reasons why people voted in the way they did....many of the reasons have nothing to do with the EU....just a protest vote for some, as they see their lives are not the way they want it to be....any kind of alternative and change must be better than what it is happening at the moment....when people see themselves as being left out, ignored, marginalised.....when have nothing to lose, what have you got to lose.....nothing.

Big problem is our governments over the years have created great divisions in different parts of our kingdom and failed to hault growing inequality......

[One-percent]

Chatting with my boss yesterday. Outraged he was as the referendum was anti democratic. Began to hare the argument but gave up when he stated forcefully that parliament is the highest form of democracy. :~

[Frank Hovis]

Chatting with my boss yesterday. Outraged he was as the referendum was anti democratic. Began to hare the argument but gave up when he stated forcefully that parliament is the highest form of democracy. :~

When people start to believe the rhetoric is anything other than that they are lost.

When George W was gearing up to invade Afghanistan he talked of bringing freedom and democracy. Nobody should have believed that, I didn't believe that, he didn't believe it.

He was going in to destroy Al Qaeda's home base; a proper and correct military action. But you're not going to say that, because you don't.

[The Masked Tulip]

So general elections are not legally binding then? Council elections? When I have a coup I will simply inform the public that elections hold no authority and are worthless.