Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[billybong]

18 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Quite. The ' "progress" above everything else' people have long lost sight of what actually gives a good quality of life, i.e. one people like (even a lot of people have), which is why it all rather faltered and became self-serving many decades ago, once the majority of people no longer had any real concerns about the basics. What we get now are trivialities, and lots of damage done just to keep up with an unnecessarily growing population.

+1

All subordinated to a false and manipulated GDP figure that only keeps the bankers and their cronies in clover.

[South Lorne]

3 hours ago, Konig said:

 Or do we manufacture things cheaper than China?  

...yeah ..with the sought after exchange adjustment we are able to compete with China...we are heading the right way ..we confronted the financial and our banking crisis in 2008 ...did Europe..? ...no ..the Euro is the most over rated currency in the current financial world...dream on ..and get out ....

[Sheeple Splinter]

3 hours ago, Konig said:

Great!  Someone who finally has a clear economic plan to answer my very simply question!

So, Tapori, what is the UK post-EU basic economic grand plan?  Very simple terms will do!

I mean, after all, we are leaving a 'club' that gives us unlimited access to trade with 500m+ people who happen to be on our doorstep, in developed economies like ours, and towards which the UK has spent 40 years building its whole economy around e.g. assemble cars, sell financial services, etc.

So is it we discover vast natural resources like Oz?  Or do we manufacture things cheaper than China?  Or do we keep making cars and selling financial services but we suddenly sell all that to Africa or somewhere?

It really should not be that hard for you - or any Brexiteer - to say in just a few words what the basic 'post-EU economic strategy' is e.g. the Japanese 1970-80's economic miracle was based on 'copy western design and ideas but organise labour force and factories to make those things more efficiently than the west can'       

This clip usually pops into my mind when I read your posts - 1:00 minute onwards:

 

 

[South Lorne]

4 hours ago, Konig said:

 

I can't even be bothered to ask, for a fourth time, what our post-Brexit economic success model is supposed to be based upon because it clearly simply does not exist (based on no ideas at all from Leavers on this thread at least).

...you can't have a model until you negotiate ...that is the immediate plan .....like in life there are no guarantees ...so suck it up ....alternatively emigrate to North Korea..the leader promises comfort and protection ...this should suit you.....

[XswampyX]

I've a feeling they want all the answers.... so they can just try to tear them apart.

 

[canbuywontbuy]

5 hours ago, Konig said:

It really should not be that hard for you - or any Brexiteer - to say in just a few words what the basic 'post-EU economic strategy' is e.g. the Japanese 1970-80's economic miracle was based on 'copy western design and ideas but organise labour force and factories to make those things more efficiently than the west can'       

Please ... please stop with this.  It's pathetic. It's embarrassing now.

Shut up.

Please respect the British people and stop with your insults.

We were given a referendum. Most of us (72.2%) turned out to vote. I know you would rather that this act of democracy never even existed, but unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the majority of us, it has.

Some voted Remain, more voted Leave.

Your question is not a question, but an insult.  17.410M people do not run the economics of the UK, but were asked whether they believe the UK should be in the EU or not. 

They answered to Leave, despite being browbeaten by the parliament and BBC and other media outlets to vote Remain. Despite highly undemocratic propaganda, they exercised their right to democracy. Voters are not chancellors of the exchequer, Phil Hammond is - and if you want to know what's happening next, email him! We just pointed him in the general direction we want the UK to go in.

You didn't like the result, so resort to pointless rhetorical questions that are simply thinly-veiled insults. If Leave didn't win, you wouldn't ask your pointless questions. 

Get over yourself, get over the result.

Edited October 8, 2016 by canbuywontbuy

[workingpoor]

9 hours ago, F-sake said:

I am Russian living in the UK since 2002. I happened to be on holiday in Europe when the eastern-European countries joined the EU in May 2004. I was crossing the channel to get back to Britain from France in early May 2004, and even though it was only few days after I still remember seeing a few groups of Polish people with rather massive carrier bags crossing border in the same direction. I was well surprised to see them in such numbers, it just looked as they were there long waiting in a low start position for barriers to go up after the 1st May. I didn’t realise at the time it was a beginning of people influx to such a massive scale, and it would steadily go worst year by year.

 

A couple of years after that, a company I was working for at the time sent a recruiter from a job agency to Poland. About a month later a team of about 20 people turned up from Poland to work on the shop floor. These Polish workers were placed in a large private house converted into flats and as I was later told by one of them, they were paying £70 a week for a bedsit, obviously no council tax paid. A few local contracting fitters were laid off subsequently. Few months later more Polish people joined the company.

 

To be fair, many of these new Polish guys worked really well and I later made friends with a few of them. However not all of them were up to hard work. For instance, one of them was brought as an electrician. He didn’t speak English at all, but could get round in Russian. As an electrical engineer I had to look after the team of electricians, so I was tasked to guide this guy, explain him what was going on and what was required, and help him around in general. He pretty much straight away asked me where the local benefit agency was; to his great surprise I didn’t know it. He told me about various benefits which he was entitled to and which he was going to get asap. As for the job, he didn’t seem very interested in it and wasn’t keen on following the instructions. He half-heartedly straggled in this employment for a little bit and then happily left us - there must’ve been other benefits he found out about. Some other fitters from the same group later were dismissed for stealing tools and raw materials.

 

I am a kind of a “bloody foreigner” myself, so I don’t have moral rights to judge anybody in this situation and I am trying not to. I am not sure I would resist milking the system if I was in his shoes. Luckily I’m in my own shoes and as a naturalized British citizen I had an opportunity to have my say over this state of affairs in a non-vocal way. I went to the referendum and I voted “leave”.  I suppose there are many benefits to this country from being a part of the EU, which I recognise. However there are also too many glaring disadvantages, which many remainders fail to recognize. I could put forward tons of negative examples which I noticed over the years but don’t think there is any point. I’d like to think that I’m not racist; I really don’t mind any nationalities and have quite a few friends from Eastern Europe whom I regard well. But the state of affairs in Britain just couldn't carry on as it was. Though I’ve got a lot to loose, I am prepared to face the consequences from my vote and don’t regret it a bit. Bring it on.

 

Thank you for voting "Leave" it is Brexiteer's like us that are the saviours of Great Britain,

Despite what the bitter Remainer's have to say it was the Brexiteer's who fought the noble fight & won out, knowing that they stood to take a short term hit for the greater good. 

A large number even had the foresight to see beyond their own lifespans and do it for the next generations.

Hat's off to them all. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by workingpoor

[XswampyX]

14 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Please ... please stop with this.  It's pathetic. It's embarrassing now.

Shut up.

Please respect the British people and stop with your insults.

We were given a referendum. Most of us (72.2%) turned out to vote. I know you would rather that this act of democracy never even existed, but unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the majority of us, it has.

Some voted Remain, more voted Leave.

Your question is not a question, but an insult.  17.410M people do not run the economics of the UK, but were asked whether they believe the UK should be in the EU or not. 

They answered to Leave, despite being browbeaten by the parliament and BBC and other media outlets to vote Remain. Despite highly undemocratic propaganda, they exercised their right to democracy. Voters are not chancellors of the exchequer, Phil Hammond is - and if you want to know what's happening next, email him! We just pointed him in the a general direction we want the UK to go in.

You didn't like the result, so resort to pointless rhetorical questions that are simply thinly-veiled insults. If Leave didn't win, you wouldn't ask your pointless questions. 

Get over yourself, get over the result.

Yeah! 

 

[canbuywontbuy]

3 hours ago, Byron said:

There is no post Brexit plan because as we always have done in the past, we will muddle through.

This is the traditional British way of doing things.

But if you are looking for 'progress' and greater wealth, forget it.

The majority of UK people want a simple quiet life. A job for life, food on the table, clothes on their back and the children looked after.

#THEY don't care if some Metropolitan winker loses out.

London has become a great big cess pit, sucking in the chancers of the world because they can make money, enhance their CV etc. by being there.

Now, these precious people are threatening to leave, comparing the governments pronouncements akin to Mein Kampf.

Tough, make sure you have paid up your tea fund and close the door after you.

We don't want you, only the Londoners  want you because you will make money for them.

This, we the disposed find sickening.

As long as we have the basics, who really cares if the UK sinks.

We cannot afford  to buy a house, we know that every day we are being ripped off, even at Motor way Services for example, phone roaming charges, you name it, some ******* is ripping us off.

We have had enough of all the foreigners battening on to us and abusing our welfare system.

Be gone.

Well said.  It's not all about economics.  People are moaning about the result for their own reasons, but the UK will survive economically.  The EU is not a sustainable model and we all know that.  Look at Merkel doing an about-face on immigration and benefits all of a sudden! She knows the game is up, and that problems are only going to get worse.  The UK is leaving a sinking ship, and everyone's focusing now on the lifeboat, but not the sinking ship. 

[canbuywontbuy]

6 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

Interesting...considering the source...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3827365/Angela-Merkel-BAN-EU-migrants-claiming-unemployment-benefits-five-years-open-door-policy-continues-hit-Germany.html

The game is up.  FOM is a disaster and Merkel knows it and can no longer pretend otherwise.  FOM does not work for the UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, Sweden and other "giver" EU nations. They are being sucked dry.  If it worked, Merkel would not be announcing such a ban.  Momentum is heavily against the EU now - even Merkel is acting against it!

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, canbuywontbuy said:

celease ... please stop with this.  It's pathetic. It's embarrassing now.

Shut up.

Please respect the British people and stop with your insults.

We were given a referendum. Most of us (72.2%) turned out to vote. I know you would rather that this act of democracy never even existed, but unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the majority of us, it has.

Some voted Remain, more voted Leave.

Your question is not a question, but an insult.  17.410M people do not run the economics of the UK, but were asked whether they believe the UK should be in the EU or not. 

They answered to Leave, despite being browbeaten by the parliament and BBC and other media outlets to vote Remain. Despite highly undemocratic propaganda, they exercised their right to democracy. Voters are not chancellors of the exchequer, Phil Hammond is - and if you want to know what's happening next, email him! We just pointed him in the general direction we want the UK to go in.

You didn't like the result, so resort to pointless rhetorical questions that are simply thinly-veiled insults. If Leave didn't win, you wouldn't ask your pointless questions. 

Get over yourself, get over the result.

I didn't like the result either but happy to move on once the "winners" can articulate what they way forward is, but so far absolutely nothing apart from the moronic posts above.

Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision. But instead we hear fantasies about how the rest of Europe will kowtow to us and give us a even better deal outside the EU than we could ever could have got by remaining inside.

Of course the real irony of this is that the people who voted Leave because things cannot get any worse will be ones most damaged by the decision to leave. Just look as what has happened so far, if you have wealth you are probably invested in the stock market so about 15% increase in wealth measured against the devalued £. House prices for foreign buyers are now 15% cheaper, enough to revitalise the London market. If you don't have money invested in the dollar denominated  stock market you are now about 15% poorer  

I am now up by about £150k as a result of the Leave decision, but because I don't actually need the money and care about the future of the country I still think it was the wrong decision.   

      

  

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Confusion of VIs

[workingpoor]

19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I didn't like the result either but happy to move on once the "winners" can articulate what they way forward is, but so far absolutely nothing apart from the moronic posts above.

Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision. But instead we hear fantasies about how the rest of Europe will kowtow to us and give us a even better deal outside the EU than we could ever could have got by remaining inside.

Of course the real irony of this is that the people who voted Leave because things cannot get any worse will be ones most damaged by the decision to leave. Just look as what has happened so far, if you have wealth you are probably invested in the stock market so about 15% increase in wealth measured against the devalued £. House prices for foreign buyers are now 15% cheaper, enough to revitalise the London market. If you don't have money invested in the dollar denominated  stock market you are now about 15% poorer  

I am now up by about £150k as a result of the Leave decision, but because I don't actually need the money and care about the future of the country I still think it was the wrong decision.   

      

  

 

 

The point you miss is that we don't care if we are eating grass at the side of the road for the next 10 years, as long as YOU are alongside us! 

Edited October 8, 2016 by workingpoor

[BlokeInDurham]

19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I didn't like the result either but happy to move on once the "winners" can articulate what they way forward is, but so far absolutely nothing apart from the moronic posts above.

Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision.

I don't think you really understand what question was being asked in the EU Referendum. Despite what the media, campaigners and voters themselves might have wanted to harp on about, the EU Referendum was about neither policy decisions of any kind, or the direction of the country in a broader sense. It was about how we decide, from here onward, what policies to set and what direction to take.

We could have done it within the framework of the EU so that Parliament makes a lot of decisions but some are decided multilaterally, meaning our hand is forced/we don't have to bother with some trivialities (depending on how you view any particular case). We could have done it independently, meaning that Parliament can, and indeed must, decide everything.

As a nation, we chose the latter. Concerns over decisions about the future, economic, social or whatever should therefore be directed to Parliament (all of it), not "people wot voted Leave". If we had instead chosen the former option, those would have been correctly directed at both Parliament and the EU with the split of responsibility probably depending on the precise issue as has been the case for the last few decades, and not "people wot voted Remain".

[OnionTerror]

9 minutes ago, BlokeInDurham said:

I don't think you really understand what question was being asked in the EU Referendum. Despite what the media, campaigners and voters themselves might have wanted to harp on about, the EU Referendum was about neither policy decisions of any kind, or the direction of the country in a broader sense. It was about how we decide, from here onward, what policies to set and what direction to take.

We could have done it within the framework of the EU so that Parliament makes a lot of decisions but some are decided multilaterally, meaning our hand is forced/we don't have to bother with some trivialities (depending on how you view any particular case). We could have done it independently, meaning that Parliament can, and indeed must, decide everything.

As a nation, we chose the latter. Concerns over decisions about the future, economic, social or whatever should therefore be directed to Parliament (all of it), not "people wot voted Leave". If we had instead chosen the former option, those would have been correctly directed at both Parliament and the EU with the split of responsibility probably depending on the precise issue as has been the case for the last few decades, and not "people wot voted Remain".

A fair amount of policies come from independent agencies, such as UNECE, OECD & Codex, which parliament implements into law...

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Dave Beans

[Byron]

45 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

 

Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision.

 

 

Absolute rubbish.

You have swallowed hook line and sinker the bitter lies put out by the losers.

[workingpoor]

Uneducated, moronic, low IQ whatever they want to call us, the cold hard reality fact is this........

17.41M  of the above potentially taking to the streets countrywide in peaceful protest is what is setting the score here, 

There is no way to Police (or Army) it. 

It's what government's worldwide are terrified of, hence all the Brexit "Hard Talk" they are propagating through supplicant media channels.

They will pander and try to throw freebie giveaways at us in the Nov budget, then try and make out the courts have held up invoking Article 50 but everyone is wise to this now thanks to the power of social media, 

CHECK.........Your move......

Edited October 8, 2016 by workingpoor

[SpectrumFX]

5 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I didn't like the result either but happy to move on once the "winners" can articulate what they way forward is, but so far absolutely nothing apart from the moronic posts above.

Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision. But instead we hear fantasies about how the rest of Europe will kowtow to us and give us a even better deal outside the EU than we could ever could have got by remaining inside.

Of course the real irony of this is that the people who voted Leave because things cannot get any worse will be ones most damaged by the decision to leave. Just look as what has happened so far, if you have wealth you are probably invested in the stock market so about 15% increase in wealth measured against the devalued £. House prices for foreign buyers are now 15% cheaper, enough to revitalise the London market. If you don't have money invested in the dollar denominated  stock market you are now about 15% poorer  

I am now up by about £150k as a result of the Leave decision, but because I don't actually need the money and care about the future of the country I still think it was the wrong decision.   

      

  

 

 

There are serious structural imbalances built into the EU that are starting to blow up.

Our rapidly correcting trade imbalance was one of them. It was partly caused by out overvalued currency, which is now also correcting.

The cancer of thought that is destroying the world economy is this idea that nothing economic can ever be allowed to go badly, and that growth must be rapid and endless. 

I'm happy with what's going on. It's just our backlog of creative destruction that we've been pretending that we could avoid.

[Futuroid]

3 hours ago, workingpoor said:

17.41M  of the above potentially taking to the streets countrywide in peaceful protest is what is setting the score here, 

Maybe the Leave voters could go on a benefits strike and teach the rest of us a lesson?

Stop claiming them, I mean...

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

"A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension."

[ccc]

This was a poll. The polls were wrong when it came to the actual result - but we are to take what this one says as gospel.

 

In fact - why am I even responding to this ? I'm pretty certain Roy has already brought this up with the same response.

[Richmond]

18 minutes ago, ccc said:

This was a poll. The polls were wrong when it came to the actual result - but we are to take what this one says as gospel.

 

In fact - why am I even responding to this ? I'm pretty certain Roy has already brought this up with the same response.

Which poll was wrong? As far as I can see it is only wrong in the sense that on balance of risk it is far riskier to leave the EU than stay in. Doesn't mean we won't be looking back in 10 years time saying leave was a actually a good thing after all. I don't think it is ever clear cut right or wrong.

The main issue with this referrendum is no matter how unbinding it is, the rhetoric from both sides was very much that they would be bound by it. Remain said they would invoke article 50 straight away if leave won for example, sent out leaflets explaining why we should stay in etc. Maybe if they had said this was just a poll to get the feeling from the population on their next negotiation with the EU. 

It is also a subject a lot of people feel passionate amount so it was always hard to sell it as a simple poll. That is the danger of turning to populism to settle internal issues.

[Futuroid]

32 minutes ago, ccc said:

In fact - why am I even responding to this ? I'm pretty certain Roy has already brought this up with the same response.

You do miss Roy don't you? He was clearly someone very special to you, I hope you get over him soon and can get on with your life.

[SarahBell]

https://www.welt.de/politik/article158606019/Regierung-will-Sozialhilfe-fuer-EU-Auslaender-drastisch-einschraenken.html

According to the Federal Employment Agency (BA) based in January this country almost 440,000 people from other EU countries benefits under the Social Security Code II. Polish citizens formed with about 92,000 benefit recipients, the largest group, followed by Italians (71,000), Bulgarians (70,000) Romanians (57,000) and Greeks (46,000). But not all these people are unemployed. Many of them are low-income, aufstockten wage with benefits. Striking is the percentage of "Aufstockern" for Bulgarians and Romanians.

Aufstockern is increase. Don't know why that wasn't translated.

 

[Sheeple Splinter]

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

1. I didn't like the result either but happy to move on once the "winners" can articulate what they way forward is, but so far absolutely nothing apart from the moronic posts above.

2. Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision. But instead we hear fantasies about how the rest of Europe will kowtow to us and give us a even better deal outside the EU than we could ever could have got by remaining inside.

3. Of course the real irony of this is that the people who voted Leave because things cannot get any worse will be ones most damaged by the decision to leave. Just look as what has happened so far, if you have wealth you are probably invested in the stock market so about 15% increase in wealth measured against the devalued £. House prices for foreign buyers are now 15% cheaper, enough to revitalise the London market. If you don't have money invested in the dollar denominated  stock market you are now about 15% poorer  

4. I am now up by about £150k as a result of the Leave decision, but because I don't actually need the money and care about the future of the country I still think it was the wrong decision.   

1. That sentence doesn't ring true.

2. Democracy in action and you know the blues have explained why they are not giving a running commentary.

3. The first sentence contradicts your profile of leave voters but the rest of the paragraph sets out what's important to the 1% club.

4. Feeling philanthropic?

 

[Riedquat]

7 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said:

The game is up.  FOM is a disaster and Merkel knows it and can no longer pretend otherwise.  FOM does not work for the UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, Sweden and other "giver" EU nations. They are being sucked dry.  If it worked, Merkel would not be announcing such a ban.  Momentum is heavily against the EU now - even Merkel is acting against it!

I suppose the answer to my question about why the EU is being so balshy about insisting on things like FoM for the UK is simply that it's the classic distraction technique. Pretend things are normal and it's all the UK's fault for not playing along. That's rather harder to do if you can't villianise someone.

[Riedquat]

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Lets stop beating about the bush on this, the less educated and less successful half of the nation are now deciding our destiny. The rest of the nation are a bit nervous about this and would really like to hear a credible vision for how we make a success of this decision. But instead we hear fantasies about how the rest of Europe will kowtow to us and give us a even better deal outside the EU than we could ever could have got by remaining inside.

I'd like to hear a credible vision of the future of Britain in the EU, but before the referendum no-one could provide me one. The only ones who didn't sound completely naive about it thought it was rotten but feared the economic consequences of leave, nothing more (any argument along the lines of "only those matter" just makes you look very small-minded indeed), and mostly revolve around treating what in reality will be fairly minor changes as an utter disaster. To use that to brush off the issues about immigration, to brush off the issues about political dominance and federation, to brush off the issues that in the UK there shouldn't be any court above UK courts, similarly for other countries,  - and even to brush off some of the economic issues, the only things that apparently matter to some banal people, of being tied to lots of countries in a very different state economically, is not a sign of being well-educated. You're in no position to insult Leave voters. The only Remainers who deserve any respect are the ones who actually want a Federal States of Europe. It's an idea that I find horrible, but at least they'd have had a good reason (from their point of view) for voting Remain. But for the greedy ones who are worried about losing a bit, my heart bleeds, because there's a lot more to life than money.

Our fate isn't in the hands of the uneducated now, it's in the hands of the unindoctrinated.

I am now up by about £150k as a result of the Leave decision, but because I don't actually need the money and care about the future of the country I still think it was the wrong decision.

If you care about it what do you want it to look like? Present a picture of a future worth having.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Riedquat