Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[GrizzlyDave]

30 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

No, you said we helped rebuild it, and we didn't.

We banned Germany from heavy industry after the war.  So of course everything fell into disrepair.  They were only allowed light industry. Another thing you seem to have missed, was if it wasn't for the US seeing Germany as a potential ally, they'd have continued with their feet on Germany's neck post war.  We were against helping them.  

You tell me I se things in black and white?  That's rich Dave, for I don't think you're thinking with clarity here.  I am telling you now, we didn't help rebuild Germany, we couldn't, as we were bankrupt, along with the rest of Western Europe.  The US helped all of the countries out, post war, that were involved in the war; allies or axis.  We were just given a piece of the pie.  

As for defending them, do me a ******ing favour.  We banned them from rearming.  Then we, pretty much, invaded them, putting camps up all over the place.  That isn't defending them, that's invading them.  They were not allowed a ******ing Air Force for 30 odd years.  They were banned from putting troops outside their border until the late 90's, early 00's from memory.

The trouble with you Dave is you have this vision of the UK as the country it may have been 150 years ago and it isn't.  We were on the wane in the 30's, the war pretty much would have sunk us without the US, and post war we'd have been ******ed were it not for the US.  You somehow think that means we have a special relationship with the States.  We don't, that ship sailed a long time ago.

In 1941, we were days from losing the war, we held on and yes, we were brave and strong. But we had lost the war by then, and were it not for the Japanese giving the US a reason to join in, we'd have lost the war. Period.  I have a DFC and a George Cross in my family.  My father was a 32 year Army vet, 2 highly decorated brothers, one still mentally scared by the first gulf war.  I don't disrespect anything they did, nor do I diminish anything they did, but also what I do not ******ing do out of respect, is revise history.

1800's was UK century, 1900's were the US's, the 2000 will belong to China.

 

Only 408 people have received the George Cross - that’s pretty special.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cross

We did help rebuild Germany. That’s a fact. You can start to educate yourself here;

https://www.thelocal.de/20150925/the-brit-who-saved-vw-after-the-war

Edited October 13, 2018 by GrizzlyDave

[HairyOb1]

1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Only 408 people have received the George Cross - that’s pretty special.

We did help rebuild Germany. That’s a fact. You can start to educate yourself here;

https://www.thelocal.de/20150925/the-brit-who-saved-vw-after-the-war

We didn't, simply put.  We couldn't afford to, we were bankrupt, it's a myth.

I have the DFC here in the house, my wife grandfather got it in WW2.  I had a few drinks with him once and talked to him about the war.  He brought all of his logs down and we walked through them.  He got his DFC for doing the most English of English things to do; he torpedoed a sub, then landed (flying boat), said sorry and picked up the survivors...  Still makes me laugh.  He said only two things scared him: the German condors who hunted the Catalinas, and landing in Glasgow, as they were the only two times people shot at him.  Apparently Glasgow were a bit trigger happy at anything flying near them, so used to shoot at the Catalinas returning home from supporting the convoys.  Still makes me laugh.

[GrizzlyDave]

15 minutes ago, smash said:

And yet its easy to find brexiters talking about how Germany owes "us" money for not meeting supposed NATO spending commitments.

You’re an idiot. No one is saying Germany owes us.

They have obligations but choose not to meet them (though they are improving - after Trump have them a kick about NATO spending).

[HairyOb1]

10 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Only 408 people have received the George Cross - that’s pretty special.

We did help rebuild Germany. That’s a fact. You can start to educate yourself here;

https://www.thelocal.de/20150925/the-brit-who-saved-vw-after-the-war

I know all about the story.   It's a nice one.  But read the proper story, not the romanticised one.  Look up Nordorfs role too...

Edited October 13, 2018 by HairyOb1

[Peter Hun]

On 11/10/2018 at 20:16, GrizzlyDave said:

No offence but I find these stories tedious and dull. Having spent my adult life exposed to the biggest housing bubble in history - I have little sympathy. Your generation (sorry but it’s true) have stripped this country bare like locusts. There’s nothing left. So sorry, I mean no offence, but from my perspective it looks like you had it gravy.

Similarly, the hundreds of thousands who lost their homes and were left with a years wage worth in debt that took over a decade to clear will conclude that your are an idiotic tosser.

[GrizzlyDave]

13 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Similarly, the hundreds of thousands who lost their homes and were left with a years wage worth in debt that took over a decade to clear will conclude that your are an idiotic tosser.

C’est la vie!

[pig]

How’s this for batshit toxicity ? And I thought being happy for family members to lose jobs was bad !

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/10/09/news/research-shows-unionists-prefer-brexit-over-the-territorial-integrity-of-the-uk-1453172/

[GrizzlyDave]

56 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

No, you said we helped rebuild it, and we didn't.

We banned Germany from heavy industry after the war.  So of course everything fell into disrepair.  They were only allowed light industry. Another thing you seem to have missed, was if it wasn't for the US seeing Germany as a potential ally, they'd have continued with their feet on Germany's neck post war.  We were against helping them.  

You tell me I se things in black and white?  That's rich Dave, for I don't think you're thinking with clarity here.  I am telling you now, we didn't help rebuild Germany, we couldn't, as we were bankrupt, along with the rest of Western Europe.  The US helped all of the countries out, post war, that were involved in the war; allies or axis.  We were just given a piece of the pie.  

As for defending them, do me a ******ing favour.  We banned them from rearming.  Then we, pretty much, invaded them, putting camps up all over the place.  That isn't defending them, that's invading them.  They were not allowed a ******ing Air Force for 30 odd years.  They were banned from putting troops outside their border until the late 90's, early 00's from memory.

The trouble with you Dave is you have this vision of the UK as the country it may have been 150 years ago and it isn't.  We were on the wane in the 30's, the war pretty much would have sunk us without the US, and post war we'd have been ******ed were it not for the US.  You somehow think that means we have a special relationship with the States.  We don't, that ship sailed a long time ago.

In 1941, we were days from losing the war, we held on and yes, we were brave and strong. But we had lost the war by then, and were it not for the Japanese giving the US a reason to join in, we'd have lost the war. Period.  I have a DFC and a George Cross in my family.  My father was a 32 year Army vet, 2 highly decorated brothers, one still mentally scared by the first gulf war.  I don't disrespect anything they did, nor do I diminish anything they did, but also what I do not ******ing do out of respect, is revise history.

1800's was UK century, 1900's were the US's, the 2000 will belong to China.

 

Edit - Just looked a few things up.  Germany (West Germany) was occupied, militarily, until 1955, officially an occupied country under the control of a foreign army.  It joined the EEC in 1957 and I think that's ******ing remarkable. 

And yes, that REME bloke was amazing at what he did with VW.  But it was considered at the time a Political company, not commercial, as they made armed vehicles, and under the Potsdam agreement, was being stripped as war reparations.  He stopped that, he persuaded the US/UK authorities to stop it, and to use it as something to help the Germans.  Did you know that most German men, engineers, whatever, were still POW post war, some up until 1949 - We kept them as prisoners and used them as slaves until 4 years after the war.  Hirst asked for 1000 trained engineers to be released.  How often do people get kept as prisoners post war Dave?  We had our foot on the Germans neck, the US relented and it took us 4 more years to agree to relent too.

 

Are you looking for an apology or something as to how we treated Germany after the war? After they dried to destroy us, and murdered 5 million Jews?

You have such an utterly odd perception on things. Absolutely peculiar. We really are poles apart in our views!

Lets not forget we took the Nazis to task in the Nuremberg Trials, and were instrumental in setting up the ECHR including being the first signatory.

https://rightsinfo.org/wrote-european-convention-human-rights/

 

[HairyOb1]

14 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Are you looking for an apology or something as to how we treated Germany after the war? After they dried to destroy us, and murdered 5 million Jews?

You have such an utterly odd perception on things. Absolutely peculiar. We really are poles apart in our views!

Lets not forget we took the Nazis to task in the Nuremberg Trials, and were instrumental in setting up the ECHR including being the first signatory.

https://rightsinfo.org/wrote-european-convention-human-rights/

 

You're a ******ing idiot sometimes.  You make shit up to make yourself look better, and that's very odd.

All I did, was remind folk no one was as white as the driven snow in WW2.  I then pointed out, again, the falsehood, the myth you tried to peddle that we had anything to do with the rebuilding of Germany.  Now you're suggesting I think we should apologise to Germany?  Are you drinking early or something?  

Al the rest is fill. I thought better of you, but you're no better than the mad man who is still convinced the UK are some kind of powerhouse.  That ship sails a hundred years ago.

We are poles apart Dave, and the more I read some of your stuff, the happier I am about it.

Edited October 13, 2018 by HairyOb1

[GrizzlyDave]

18 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

And then Germany can then send the British one too, although we have apologised about Dresden....

Lets not dredge up shit like this.

 

This all kicked off with what You said iright here. I don’t think we owe Germany anything and I don’t think that Germany owes us anything. I don’t think we were saints in the war or after the war, nor do I think the Germans were. But we have done some great and amazing things and I’m quite proud of that.

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

This all kicked off with what You said iright here. I don’t think we owe Germany anything and I don’t think that Germany owes us anything. I don’t think we were saints in the war or after the war, nor do I think the Germans were. But we have done some great and amazing things and I’m quite proud of that.

What did I say here Dave, think about it for a minute.

I said precisely what you've said, think about it.  I said if Germany can be sent a reparation bill for bombing the UK, then. the Germany can send us one.  

Do you now see how mental you're position is?  We said the same thing, yet you're attacking me for it.

Unbelievable.

And I've always outlined how proud of how the UK is at somethings.  Always.  We're shit in some areas, but in a lot of areas we've a lot to be proud of.  I am ******ing sick to death of the constant, undeserved, shit France and Germany gets on these boards.

[Peter Hun]

2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Have a free range goose - much nicer.

Got any cake recipes for the bread eating proles?

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

 

They have obligations but choose not to meet them (though they are improving - after Trump have them a kick about NATO spending).

Don't fall for Trump's self promotion. They agreed to increase spending under Obama and just restated this to Trump.

[GrizzlyDave]

20 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Got any cake recipes for the bread eating proles?

No - but I have a good one for cherry pie.

20 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

What did I say here Dave, think about it for a minute.

I said precisely what you've said, think about it.  I said if Germany can be sent a reparation bill for bombing the UK, then. the Germany can send us one.  

Do you now see how mental you're position is?  We said the same thing, yet you're attacking me for it.

Unbelievable.

And I've always outlined how proud of how the UK is at somethings.  Always.  We're shit in some areas, but in a lot of areas we've a lot to be proud of.  I am ******ing sick to death of the constant, undeserved, shit France and Germany gets on these boards.

No you need to think about what you said - you brought up the subject of bills and apologies - it was you that brought up our bombing of Dresden with the implications is was wrong. There was no need to do that.

I don’t bash France or Germany at all. But you constantly bash the Uk.  There’s hundreds of pages on here where you have done so. Your hatred is epic!

Edited October 13, 2018 by GrizzlyDave

[GrizzlyDave]

12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Don't fall for Trump's self promotion. They agreed to increase spending under Obama and just restated this to Trump.

TBH I don’t care who gave them the bump. The good thing is Germany has responded. Which is great ?

[jonb2]

As we get closer to the 1000ft cliff, expect the vitriol to steeply increase. Remainers see the whole thing as a con, a ruse, a falsehood. Created by a political party who should all be serving life sentences and sharing the same cells as the bankers.

Leavers are their footsoldiers. Like the poor old Tommy in WW1 or the dragged peasants on so many crusades - they are expendable.

It's all going to get worse. The Casbah is about to go out of business. I wonder when someone with the right blueprints to rebuild it will ever appear?

Probably need a German to do it.

 

[GrizzlyDave]

4 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

As we get closer to the 1000ft cliff, expect the vitriol to steeply increase. Remainers see the whole thing as a con, a ruse, a falsehood. Created by a political party who should all be serving life sentences and sharing the same cells as the bankers.

Leavers are their footsoldiers. Like the poor old Tommy in WW1 or the dragged peasants on so many crusades - they are expendable.

It's all going to get worse. The Casbah is about to go out of business. I wonder when someone with the right blueprints to rebuild it will ever appear?

Probably need a German to do it.

 

Stop being a drama queen - we will have a deal - trade will go on.

Hairy’s probably right a soft BINO with us on the outer edges whilst the centre accelerates towards EUtopia.

[HairyOb1]

47 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No you need to think about what you said - you brought up the subject of bills and apologies - it was you that brought up our bombing of Dresden with the implications is was wrong. There was no need to do that.

I don’t bash France or Germany at all. But you constantly bash the Uk.  There’s hundreds of pages on here where you have done so. Your hatred is epic!

I know precisely what I said - Someone said Germany should pay us, I said we should be careful, given what we did, because if they should pay, so should we, precisely what you said.  I called Dresden a war crime, which lots still believe.  Churchill thought it was wrong.  The Allies bombing strategy was changed because of Dresden.  You counter that with a whole ******ing page of how we helped Germany when we didn't and actually held them back when the US wanted to treat them as an ally.

You, sometimes, talk an heroic amount of shit Dave.

I don't hate England, it's a ******ing idiot that says I do; It's a convenient and intellectually lazy stick to hit me with.  

I thought better of you. Fool me once, big fool me.  

Edited October 13, 2018 by HairyOb1

[jonb2]

2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Similarly, the hundreds of thousands who lost their homes and were left with a years wage worth in debt that took over a decade to clear will conclude that your are an idiotic tosser.

Indeed.

I spent most of the early 90s fighting repossession while I could have spent better time with my family. Barclays took me to court 4 times - each time I won fighting technicalities - their lawyers were so overworked by repossession work they never did their homework properly.

Eventually sold when prices reached a point we could cover the debt situation.

Living under the cosh of uncertain shelter with little kids in tow for years is why I am here.

Edited October 13, 2018 by jonb2

[jonb2]

23 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Stop being a drama queen - we will have a deal - trade will go on.

Hairy’s probably right a soft BINO with us on the outer edges whilst the centre accelerates towards EUtopia.

You think?

I thought you wanted a hard Brexit? Apparently it's what every leaver wanted and voted for?

Edited October 13, 2018 by jonb2

[GrizzlyDave]

6 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

I know precisely what I said - Someone said Germany should pay us, I said we should be careful, given what we did, because if they should pay, so should we, precisely what you said.  I called Dresden a war crime, which lots still believe.  Churchill thought it was wrong.  The Allies bombing strategy was changed because of Dresden.  You counter that with a whole ******ing page of how we helped Germany when we didn't and actually held them back when the US wanted to treat them as an ally.

You, basically, talk an heroic amount of shit Dave.

I don't hate England, it's a ******ing idiot that says I do; It's a convenient and intellectually lazy stick to hit me with.  

I thought better of you. Fool me once, big fool me.  

We did help rebuild Germany, ans defend it, and bring it to justice.

You brought up Dresden. Maybe it was a war crime - maybe we were right to apologise. Five million Jews. Let’s get some perspective.

I didn’t say you hated England - I said you hated the UK. Which you do.

You should lighten up - life’s too sort ?

[GrizzlyDave]

7 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

You think?

I thought you wanted a hard Brexit? Apparently it's what every leaver wanted and voted for?

Some days I do some days I don’t. As long as we are no longer a member state I will be happy TBH.

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

We did help rebuild Germany, ans defend it, and bring it to justice.

You brought up Dresden. Maybe it was a war crime - maybe we were right to apologise. Five million Jews. Let’s get some perspective.

I didn’t say you hated England - I said you hated the UK. Which you do.

You should lighten up - life’s too sort ?

We didn't, and it's easy to defend a country when you don't let them have an army and Air Force....

That's a straw man; it was war reparations the discussion was about, and I simply said if we owe them, they owe us.  Precisely what you said.

I don't hate the UK, again, a childish and intellectually challenged thing to say.  It's a simpletons goto phrase which is as dumb as it's wrong.

Get a dog up ya

[GrizzlyDave]

5 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

We didn't, and it's easy to defend a country when you don't let them have an army and Air Force....

That's a straw man; it was war reparations the discussion was about, and I simply said if we owe them, they owe us.  Precisely what you said.

I don't hate the UK, again, a childish and intellectually challenged thing to say.  It's a simpletons goto phrase which is as dumb as it's wrong.

Get a dog up ya

Well actually I said they owe us nothing and we owe them nothing. Which isn’t quite the same thing.

[yelims]

Here is yet another retarded Brexiteer being demolished https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obriens-call-brexiteer-labelled-funniest-yet/