GrizzlyDave Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said: The issue is so many lies were told, that gave false hope, which all of the people who propagated them denied the day after. I get what you're saying, that hope has been a major factor in it, but I also hope it's rescinded, as do lots of people. I am utterly against Brexit, as not one good thing has arrived because of it, not one item has come up since 2016 that has persuaded me to change my mind and accept it. I have not heard, seen or read one item of news regarding Brexit, that has been positive. Not one. Every time I have asked a Brexiteer what good thing can come out of brexit, and it's almost to a person, wishy washy flim flam at best. The only response to which I think I can acquiesce, is that they want the economy to tank. But, despite asking for nearly 2 years now, not one solid, pertinent, factual point has been put across this forum which is in any way good for the UK. What about house prices - will brexit have any affect? A house price crash would be fecking awesome IMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: What about house prices - will brexit have any affect? A house price crash would be fecking awesome IMHO... In all fairness, that's the only thing conflicting me about my stance on brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Interesting to see where they start diverging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: What about house prices - will brexit have any affect? A house price crash would be fecking awesome IMHO... At some point prices will correct with or without Brexit. Whether Brexit brings that day forward or pushes it back is still to be seen. Maybe it has already pushed it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Interesting to see where they start diverging. More interesting would be a comparison with nominal growth. If we're seeing below-par real growth, that demonstrates that interest rates are too low - and that is a problem that could easily be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: In all fairness, that's the only thing conflicting me about my stance on brexit. I think a lot of folk voted to rock sh:t up; me included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: I think a lot of folk voted to rock sh:t up; me included. It's the only, for me, legitimate reason, for nothing else makes sense. Anyone who thinks immigration will subside post brexit really are away with the pixies and there is simply not solid fiscal, economic reasons to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 I've been looking into the Customs Union/Customs Partnership conundrum - on the face of it you'd think most rebels/remainers/Labour would favour it as a solution. In essence, it seems to turn the UK into a giant free port, with sliding tariff rates depending on origin and destination of goods. It would keep us closely aligned with EU regulations, maintain full access to Single Market (for goods anyway) and solve the NI border issue. It's proxy EU membership - with a few fringe benefits to appease the brexiteers. I can see many reasons why the EU would reject it - but if they were to say they'd put the latest proposal to review it might rescue May, they'd get alignment and a lot of control. May could even put it to the HoC, win a vote against Mogg's marauders and stay in No.10. So what's not to like about the CP as a solution - other than it's complex and untested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, thehowler said: I've been looking into the Customs Union/Customs Partnership conundrum - on the face of it you'd think most rebels/remainers/Labour would favour it as a solution. In essence, it seems to turn the UK into a giant free port, with sliding tariff rates depending on origin and destination of goods. It would keep us closely aligned with EU regulations, maintain full access to Single Market (for goods anyway) and solve the NI border issue. It's proxy EU membership - with a few fringe benefits to appease the brexiteers. I can see many reasons why the EU would reject it - but if they were to say they'd put the latest proposal to review it might rescue May, they'd get alignment and a lot of control. May could even put it to the HoC, win a vote against Mogg's marauders and stay in No.10. So what's not to like about the CP as a solution - other than it's complex and untested? The real reason for rejecting it is because if we got it, everyone else would want it too. However, also you have the IT system to deliver it, which as we know will probably never work and cost billions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 20 hours ago, thehowler said: Does anyone, apart from Vince Cable (and I'm not even sure about him) think we're going to get a 2nd referendum? It will probably be by proxy via the next election - assuming Maybot can hold the dogs of war from the Moggian faction at bay for long enough. That's quite a big 'IF'. And if she does, maybe Jezza gets to pick up the can she's successfully kicked for *so* long. Personally? Nah - everybody's moved on. Especially the EU. Jeroen Dijsselbloem has just said Brexit is only news in the UK. The EU have moved on to other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 52 minutes ago, kzb said: The real reason for rejecting it is because if we got it, everyone else would want it too. However, also you have the IT system to deliver it, which as we know will probably never work and cost billions. Agree with both. Another giant government organised IT system? Hahahaahahahahahahahahahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 3 hours ago, thehowler said: I've been looking into the Customs Union/Customs Partnership conundrum - on the face of it you'd think most rebels/remainers/Labour would favour it as a solution. In essence, it seems to turn the UK into a giant free port, with sliding tariff rates depending on origin and destination of goods. It would keep us closely aligned with EU regulations, maintain full access to Single Market (for goods anyway) and solve the NI border issue. It's proxy EU membership - with a few fringe benefits to appease the brexiteers. I can see many reasons why the EU would reject it - but if they were to say they'd put the latest proposal to review it might rescue May, they'd get alignment and a lot of control. May could even put it to the HoC, win a vote against Mogg's marauders and stay in No.10. So what's not to like about the CP as a solution - other than it's complex and untested? There would still be friction at the border, being outside of the single market. North Korea has access to the single market.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 There's friction at Calais and Rotterdam with goods arriving into the EU. Why would it be any different into the UK? The CP mirrors single-market membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 It does mean EU states (Ireland) would have to know/police the end-destination of goods coming into the island though. But in return they'd get the open border with NI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, thehowler said: There's friction at Calais and Rotterdam with goods arriving into the EU. Why would it be any different into the UK? The CP mirrors single-market membership. If goods are coming from third countries, then there will be friction...They are outside the SM surveillance framework..As I keep on saying, you're either in the SM or your not..."mirroring" isn't good enough, as the UK will be out of these surveillance systems; being out of the single market.. Edited May 7, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: If goods are coming from third countries, then there will be friction...They are outside the SM surveillance framework..As I keep on saying, you're either in the SM or your not..."mirroring" isn't good enough, as the UK will be out of these surveillance systems; being out of the single market.. Would you vote Remain if given the chance in a second referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said: Would you vote Remain if given the chance in a second referendum? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Just now, Dave Beans said: No. A bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: A bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face. We shall see. I don't really want to recycle the same old arguments that we've had on here for over a year.. Edited May 7, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: They are outside the SM surveillance framework.. May's plan entails the UK acting as a proxy member of the EU's Single Market, with the same regulatory diligence over all and any goods arriving from outside the EU. The UK would be part of the SM surveillance framework, as you describe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: We shall see. I don't really want to recycle the same old arguments that we've had on here for over a year.. What if the only way to avoid having the same arguments for years is to vote remain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, thehowler said: May's plan entails the UK acting as a proxy member of the EU's Single Market, with the same regulatory diligence over all and any goods arriving from outside the EU. The UK would be part of the SM surveillance framework, as you describe it. What is proxy membership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 It means we follow the rules and regs of being in the SM, as we do now, but we can also accept trade from outside the EU and charge it at a different rate. It's asking the EU to let us have a two tier trade system within the SM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, thehowler said: It means we follow the rules and regs of being in the SM, as we do now, but we can also accept trade from outside the EU and charge it at a different rate. It's asking the EU to let us have a two tier trade system within the SM. ...what surveillance system is to be used? Are they going to "trust us" that goods meet the required standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 On 07/05/2018 at 00:56, thecrashingisles said: If you use the strict definition we have always been fully sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, so any case for leaving based on sovereignty has to be based on the meaning Confusion of VIs is using. ? Wow! Post event rationalisation with complete disregard to pooled sovereignty and the Leave campaigns', "Take back control" message. The sovereignty case for leaving was based on these messages and the Lord Ashcroft survey clearly shows this in the structure of the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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