Sheeple Splinter Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I think Boris may be in cahoots with the remain side - so far it's just **** and jaw. ...c0ck and jaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I think Boris may be in cahoots with the remain side - so far it's just **** and jaw. Time will tell. That possibility has been at the back of my mind, I wouldn't put it past the Bullingdon Boys to pull a stunt like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I think Boris may be in cahoots with the remain side - so far it's just **** and jaw. It` has crossed my mind the same goes for Carswell I more confident on Carswell being a plant than Boris ,Boris i see it as making a career move as much as anything else ,hes always been a EU skeptic and the silence from Osborne so far has been deafening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 90 year old taxpayer funded German supports Brexit http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35760912 The Sun targets the undecided vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
righttoleech Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Higher interest rates are short term props to a currency. Ultimately confidence in the future of an economy matters. In 1967 there were DM10 to the pound, closer to DM2 thirty two years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 90 year old taxpayer funded German supports Brexit http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35760912 The Sun targets the undecided vote. While I doubt there's any truth to this, I'd certainly respect her opinion more than most others, including yours If you are questioning her role and efforts made for this country (not to mention the profit she makes for it) then all I can say is I am glad you don't live here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Well, if the queen did say a few words about `go`ing it would certainly change a few hundred thousand grannies votes from in to out. Has she got the guts? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) What efforts are they then? The Royals could be scrapped tomorrow and it would make zero difference to tourism revenue. France gets more tourists than the UK and they did away with their unelected head of State 227 years ago. Doesn't stop tourists going there and visiting their equivalent of Buckingham Palace. On the wider point, why would the Sun print such a headline? Maybe they think people who support the Royals are a bit gullible and would believe this sort of nonsense? Edited March 9, 2016 by campervanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 You're right about the polls and probably the result but it will be a sad day for democracy if it is stories like this that scare people into voting to remain in the eu Though if that's what it takes it won't be all that long before the next EU political crisis. It is not a loved institution, and while they might terrify people into compliance it will remain unloved. As it's inevitable failures mount and it's lack of democratic accountability inevitably annoys and alienates more voters, it'll just get worse. The only thing inevitable about the EU, IMO, is it's ultimate failure and collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 What efforts are they then? The Royals could be scrapped tomorrow and it would make zero difference to tourism revenue. France gets more tourists than the UK and they did away with their unelected head of State 227 years ago. Doesn't stop tourists going there and visiting their equivalent of Buckingham Palace. On the wider point, why would the Sun print such a headline? Maybe they think people who support the Royals are a bit gullible and would believe this sort of nonsense? If you can't see what the queen has done then it's just another reason to take your comments less seriously Regarding the sun article and thick people, you were the one who posted it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Though if that's what it takes it won't be all that long before the next EU political crisis. It is not a loved institution, and while they might terrify people into compliance it will remain unloved. As it's inevitable failures mount and it's lack of democratic accountability inevitably annoys and alienates more voters, it'll just get worse. The only thing inevitable about the EU, IMO, is it's ultimate failure and collapse. Agreed, as I said before, I don't the EU will be around for long if the UK leaves, if it is a very close vote I think it'll bring another referendum in other countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigilante1 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 If you can't see what the queen has done then it's just another reason to take your comments less seriously Regarding the sun article and thick people, you were the one who posted it I thought MOST of the folks here are SAVVY... You are seriously having a laugh aren't you? Lets start with Dianna's death...oh best thing is I send you a link about the royals! Talk about sheeple here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I thought MOST of the folks here are SAVVY... You are seriously having a laugh aren't you? Lets start with Dianna's death...oh best thing is I send you a link about the royals! Talk about sheeple here! The irony....It was the sheeple that got carried away in mass hysteria of Diana, the Queen has known far harder times than the death of a single person Whether you like the Royalty or not they make more money for this country than they take. It may well be indirect and I'm sure it'll start you off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigilante1 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 The irony....It was the sheeple that got carried away in mass hysteria of Diana, the Queen has known far harder times than the death of a single person Whether you like the Royalty or not they make more money for this country than they take. It may well be indirect and I'm sure it'll start you off YOU have been brainwashed AND YOU are...WRONG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 YOU have been brainwashed AND YOU are...WRONG!YawnSeems like i have touched a nerve. Can you come back with the sums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Well for me i think the driving forces that will determine the way people vote will be emotions not numbers and the wealth factor simply because there is no certainty around any of these numbers and the possible affects on their wealth as there are simply to many equations for the average person to compute Yes, John Curtice has written this paper, amongst others - not read all of this yet: http://whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Analysis-paper-5-How-deeply-does-Britains-Euroscepticism-run.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Gove seems to be the main suspect http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-II/12189540/Gove-faces-Queen-Brexit-questions.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yes, John Curtice has written this paper, amongst others - not read all of this yet: http://whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Analysis-paper-5-How-deeply-does-Britains-Euroscepticism-run.pdf If you do read it you will note the conclusion which basically says that the leave campaign can continue to bang on about immigration and sovereignty but unless they can win the economic argument people will not vote for them. The emotion is around identity and sovereignty, the logic is around the economy. Most will vote with their heads not their hearts. Sovereignty doesn't pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Gove seems to be the main suspect http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-II/12189540/Gove-faces-Queen-Brexit-questions.html I will not condemn the leak. HM EIIR is married to a Greek, had German ancestors and no doubt regularly talks with other Royal families in Europe, Commonwealth governors etc and as such will be well informed. Much better informed than the rest of us and she gets a weekly confidential briefing from the PM anyway as well as sees most important Government papers. Thus, unlike myself, Nigel Farage and many others married to a European, HM EIIR is not anti-Europe, a Europhobe, xenophobe, little Englander... Simply anti-EU. Unlike our snout in the trough politicians, HM EIIR has nothing to gain or lose by her country being in or out of the EU. Having met Philip and Andrew and talked with them on more than one occasion, both of which have served their Country in time of war I might add it is clear the whole family is switched on and well informed. I believe HM EIIR would have said what is claimed, still it was wrong to leak it and bad drills if it was Gove. Her opinion should be private as per historical precedent ever since Cromwell reduced the power of the Monarch and had it transferred to Parliament. Nevertheless it is time to break free from EU slavery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Sovereignty doesn't pay the bills. Tell that to the conquered... if you don't have sovereignty you don't have anything. Unfortunately the UK has had it so easy on the sovereignty front for centuries that it's something people take for granted these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I will not condemn the leak. HM EIIR is married to a Greek, had German ancestors and no doubt regularly talks with other Royal families in Europe, Commonwealth governors etc and as such will be well informed. Much better informed than the rest of us and she gets a weekly confidential briefing from the PM anyway as well as sees most important Government papers. Thus, unlike myself, Nigel Farage and many others married to a European, HM EIIR is not anti-Europe, a Europhobe, xenophobe, little Englander... Simply anti-EU. Unlike our snout in the trough politicians, HM EIIR has nothing to gain or lose by her country being in or out of the EU. Having met Philip and Andrew and talked with them on more than one occasion, both of which have served their Country in time of war I might add it is clear the whole family is switched on and well informed. I believe HM EIIR would have said what is claimed, still it was wrong to leak it and bad drills if it was Gove. Her opinion should be private as per historical precedent ever since Cromwell reduced the power of the Monarch and had it transferred to Parliament. Nevertheless it is time to break free from EU slavery. iIf the Queen is pro Brexit then she is no different to most old women without a university education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Tell that to the conquered... if you don't have sovereignty you don't have anything. Unfortunately the UK has had it so easy on the sovereignty front for centuries that it's something people take for granted these days. Sovereignty in the UK doesnt exist. There is no UK democracy. It is an illusion. Nothing to do with the EU. Edited March 11, 2016 by campervanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sovereignty in the UK doesnt exist. There is no UK democracy. It is an illusion. Nothing to do with the EU. Surely the referendum shows that we do have sovereignty and democracy? The UK could vote to leave the EU or more bluntly, repeal the 1972 ECA. The UK armed forces remain under sovereign control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Surely the referendum shows that we do have sovereignty and democracy? The UK could vote to leave the EU or more bluntly, repeal the 1972 ECA. The UK armed forces remain under sovereign control. If you have a referendum for every piece of major legislation that affects you then you what you say about UK democracy might be true. As things stand, laws are made by the ruling party usually elected to office by 25% or less of the population for the benefit of their funders and rubber stamped by former mp's who didn't rock the boat and former fundraisers who have been rewarded for their support in the past. Sovereignty in the UK exists for the benefit of the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 If you have a referendum for every piece of major legislation that affects you then you what you say about UK democracy might be true. As things stand, laws are made by the ruling party usually elected to office by 25% or less of the population for the benefit of their funders and rubber stamped by former mp's who didn't rock the boat and former fundraisers who have been rewarded for their support in the past. Sovereignty in the UK exists for the benefit of the minority. Agree with the 25% party status quo and, as I have posted on another thread, the major hurdle to that is FPTP and voter apathy which deserve their own threads. However, sovereignty is still determined by democracy and therein available to all eligible UK citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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