Lonely Men

[winkie]

I'm not sure I agree with that. I think there are more answers than questions. A simple example - ask a table of diners "what would you like for lunch".

On a more meaningful level, there is no one answer to 'loneliness' or dissatisfaction. How to live a "good life" has been asked since the earliest civilsation. The Greeks came up with eudaimonia. Plato essentially argues that there is a "you" made up of particular characteristics (or "virtues"). You have to find out what they particularly are for you and to follow them. I do believe that deep down that most people want to be good, honest etc. and that this means that if they are not, it creates inner torment of the soul deep, deep down inside if they are tempted to meet their more material and immediate gratifications - Blair I'm looking at you, or a drunk etc. To this end people have come up with various lists which I think can help people start to find what their distinctive Eudaimonia is.

Aristotle came up with the first classification of plants and animals based on what makes this creature "good". He used an example "what is a good knife"...it is sharp. That is its distinctive characteristic and he would look at all animals and decide what makes them, them; and that what makes them, them makes them most content and 'happy', to do what they are built to do - for a predator, it may be their teeth - hunting. For a human, it is his brain - thinking.

1. Autonomy
2. Personal growth
3. Self-acceptance
4. Purpose in life
5. Environmental mastery
6. Positive relations with others.

There are I agree more answers than questions, but there are also more people with the questions than there are different things that can be eaten for lunch....

All people will be lonely or dissatisfied at some point or another in their lives.....the thing is to realise you are not the only one feeling that same feeling and that as time passes and things improve, that is no.2. as long as you have no 3. and no 4....respect and understand no 5 and interact amicability with no 6. who have been, or will be the same or going through the same as you....no 1. happens. People with very high expectations of themselves and of others are often the ones who generally will never be satisfied with their lot in life, all imo of course.

[the gardener]

Straying into ccc-topia but one of the surprising things Ive come across is that some of the women + girls who go to Church are hot.

When I was a kid the churchy people were ugly, buck-toothed imbred.

Saying that, Im not sure if the churchy type put out on the first date.

You're not wrong there. Saw an absolutely stunning blonde Mormon / JW girl just round the corner from my house the other day. Sadly I was on my way out but did consider going home and waiting in for her.

[MrPin]

You're not wrong there. Saw an absolutely stunning blonde Mormon / JW girl just round the corner from my house the other day. Sadly I was on my way out but did consider going home and waiting in for her.

Wait until you see the Jewish girls. Get earplugs!

[Turned Out Nice Again]

Depends.

My cousin got himself in solidarity to get any from loons in his block.

Mate, sort out your keyboard. Seriously.

[Scunnered]

Yep. Thats what the average smoking shack conversation was like when I started offshore 20 years ago. It does get pretty dull listening to some dentally hygiene challenged rigger relaying his somewhat dubious/bullsh1t conquests all day long when hes not yacking on about what a legendry drinker hes is when hes not shagging. Yawn... but then it swung completely the other way. You were more likely to hear a recpie for really tender squid or the best skincare or hair product, money no object. Petrosexuals I used to call them.

Maybe it was just the ships I worked on. Maybe all the other workplaces are still full of real men.

I was sitting near a bunch of them on a train down from Aberdeen just a few hours ago. That's exactly what it was like!

I felt most inadequate.

[spyguy]

Mate, sort out your keyboard. Seriously.

Hey, dont diss me. My cousins are bad ass - and also really slow at running , which is why he's inside.

Not quite found my keyboard zen position.

Some of my posts are via a tablet, which fcks my words over.

[spyguy]

I was sitting near a bunch of them on a train down from Aberdeen just a few hours ago. That's exactly what it was like!

I felt most inadequate.

God I used to do the train from boro to (almost) Aberdeen.

Id have felt a bit less manly except I saw most of them being dropped off by their mums and given sandwiches and a lick wash.

Most are probably back with their mums now, after pingpong 'invested' the money in a very tax efficient way.

[spyguy]

Wait until you see the Jewish girls. Get earplugs!

Ive only had a couple.

Screamers in bed.

Naggers outside of it.

After a while I could not tell the one from the other.

[Economic Exile]

http://despair.com/products/loneliness

I suffered from profound feelings of loneliness throughout my younger years. Anyone can succumb to feeling lonely regardless of gender....or age.

The turning point some years back came when it was suggested to me that perhaps I should view my situation as being alone instead of lonely. Adapting to this different way of viewing my situation helped immensely!

I really liked hotairmail's post further back on the thread. Lots of inspiring stuff to work on suggested there. One book that helped me was The Art of Being written by Erich Fromm (a psychologist). But there are many resources out there, that's just one.

IMO it's in every individual person's interest to continually work on being reasonably content alone. Crucially, in preparation for getting older when it seems to become more difficult to make new friends or find a new partner.

Lonely is IMO a negative word whereas alone seems much more positive. Maybe it's a subtle distinction but I found it to be very profound and life changing.

[DTMark]

I do have feelings of loneliness and always have done, from what I can recall. Not all the time, but I can be rather insular. It seems to be a part of my psychology; to be "reflective", and it doesn't help that I work from home by myself. Yes, I have daily contact with people, but contact over the phone or via the internet isn't the same.

As I've always said, if religion "works for you", then it's a good thing. I don't rule out the idea of turning to religion for some comfort at some point, though I'd be inclined to look at Buddhism, I certainly wouldn't consider Christianity or Islam. But then to such religions, I'm the Heathen anyway. I wouldn't entertain any religion which has "judging" as its basis.

It has always struck me that Dawkins seems rather frustrated, like someone trying to prove that other people are wrong, but without necessarily having a better answer himself. Indeed science cannot provide the answers to the deeper meanings that we seek, the most obvious one being "Why are we here?"

And, that I suspect that most people on here could be considered non-conformist and intelligent; those two aspects being highly beneficial in some ways and perhaps less so in others. The bloke that earns less than me who reads The Sun every day and works on a building site could well be much happier than I often am; that I might be able to solve the Countdown Conundrum 29 seconds earlier isn't what I'd call a "life skill".

[Guest eight]

It has always struck me that Dawkins seems rather frustrated, like someone trying to prove that other people are wrong, but without necessarily having a better answer himself. Indeed science cannot provide the answers to the deeper meanings that we seek, the most obvious one being "Why are we here?"

And, that I suspect that most people on here could be considered non-conformist and intelligent; those two aspects being highly beneficial in some ways and perhaps less so in others. The bloke that earns less than me who reads The Sun every day and works on a building site could well be much happier than I often am; that I might be able to solve the Countdown Conundrum 29 seconds earlier isn't what I'd call a "life skill".

The problem with the celebrity atheists is that the evangelise about it, which I always find ironic. That's why I won't call myself an atheist, it's too akin to a religion in itself for me. I want to be defined in the same way we define people who don't believe in astrology, say, or the tooth fairy.

[the gardener]

The problem with the celebrity atheists is that the evangelise about it, which I always find ironic. That's why I won't call myself an atheist, it's too akin to a religion in itself for me. I want to be defined in the same way we define people who don't believe in astrology, say, or the tooth fairy.

Weird? Sad? Spoilsports? ?

[Guest eight]

Weird? Sad? Spoilsports?

Well you got my number.

Daniel Dennett etc. seem to have an overwhelming desire to somehow prove that they are right. Whereas I am simply content to know I am.

[Guest eight]

Well, that's an interesting point. Lonely is definitely different from being alone. You can be lonely in a crowded room or a loveless marriage. Being physically alone can bring on feelings of loneliness but is not a necessary pre-condition. I do think that the internet will be wonderful to help with isolation. Not only stimulating but being two way makes it far superior to broadcast media for mental well being and flourishing.

I used to have this thing when I was younger, that I felt almost that events had no validity if I experienced them alone. Whilst I would like to think that I got over this, the truth is that I've been married for a long time and my wife and I go practically everywhere together, so it's by no means certain. I'm pretty confident that I'm a different person now though. I suppose i could always blog about stuff, or something, which might be a bit like shouting into the void, but at least it's somewhere to shout into.

[Guest eight]

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates 399 B.C.

You mean I was right to be lonely? That somehow makes it worse - I just assumed there was something wrong with me!

[spyguy]

I used to have this thing when I was younger, that I felt almost that events had no validity if I experienced them alone. Whilst I would like to think that I got over this, the truth is that I've been married for a long time and my wife and I go practically everywhere together, so it's by no means certain. I'm pretty confident that I'm a different person now though. I suppose i could always blog about stuff, or something, which might be a bit like shouting into the void, but at least it's somewhere to shout into.

Ah you're talking about life affirming actions.

Most of my teenage years were sdpent doing stuff by myself. Would not want a witness for some if the stuff I did ,- bloody grasses.

[ccc]

I used to have this thing when I was younger, that I felt almost that events had no validity if I experienced them alone.

Schrodinger's ham shank ?

[Errol]

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates 399 B.C.

That doesn't mean you can't examine your own life!

Socrates meant that people should examine themselves, not subject themselves to external examination.

[Guest eight]

Schrodinger's ham shank ?

One of the few activities best experienced alone. Which reminds me, where is Joe?

[Guest eight]

Socrates meant that people should examine themselves, not subject themselves to external examination.

I'll have 97 A levels and a degree in space stuff, please.

[Errol]

I think for many men the biggest issue is a lack of physical intimacy/proximity to attractive, feminine women. You can need this just like a thirsty man needs water.

[Riedquat]

Indeed science cannot provide the answers to the deeper meanings that we seek, the most obvious one being "Why are we here?"

That's making an assumption that there's a question to be answered there. I don't see any reason to think that there is an answer beyond "random chance." If you're after a purpose there's only those you decide to chose yourself.

[Guest eight]

That's making an assumption that there's a question to be answered there. I don't see any reason to think that there is an answer beyond "random chance." If you're after a purpose there's only those you decide to chose yourself.

I agree with you, but a lot of people seem to have a real problem with it.

Like sometimes, you tell people you're not religious, they expect you to have come up with a falsifiable alternative model for human existence, or something. They just can't accept "I don't know, and I don't care" as an answer.

[Riedquat]

I agree with you, but a lot of people seem to have a real problem with it.

Like sometimes, you tell people you're not religious, they expect you to have come up with a falsifiable alternative model for human existence, or something. They just can't accept "I don't know, and I don't care" as an answer.

That reminds me of a conversation about afterlife once, "What do you think happens to you when you die?" They seemed rather shocked that I'd say nothing much other than decomposition, that's it, born, live, die, no real purpose. "How can you live like that bleak view?" was the reply I got (as if I should believe what happens is what I want to believe rather than how things seem to be).

Personally speaking the lack of some profound purpose is liberating. You're not born to fulfil some role, you don't exist for someone else's reasons, your life is there to do what you want with it. There's no reason whatsoever to try to measure up to anything that you don't wish to.

[Errol]

We exist in the same way as any other animal exists. There is no special reason and humanity is not a special case.