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"It means that most guys don't care about the things I care about".

Not sure that's true. It's all in the communication.

The relatively small number of people that have got close to me would know this.

The question may well be "Why is it a small number of people?".. or, "what is the criteria for successful living?"

I've been with my partner for 17 years. We're quite open with each other, but it can take a few beers for that to flow fully. Why is that? What set of criteria are we trying to aspire to?

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Mix of cultural and genetic traits I suspect, DTMark. Evolutionary, there was likely distinct advantages to us being the quieter less communicative sex e.g. hunting, intertribal warfare etc. Culturally, that's reinforced throughout our upbringing - silence is strength. Being openly sensitive and empathic was actually beat out of me on one memorable day in my early teens. I got the message. And I gotta say, its been reinforced by most of my human interactions since. I'm OK with that though. That's just how things are - and I do like the fact that men can just sit together and not have to say anything.

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High concentration of synthetic estrogen in the environment is reducing natural maleness and sex drive.

These men appeal to the Feminist ideal but as individuals, these men feel emasculated and confused and hence alienated and over sensitive.

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Women in the workplace are a game changer tho. Their 'emotional intelligence' plays distinctly at odds with like it or lamp it.

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Admit feelings of loneliness ... 'cos if you admit feelings of non-loneliness you'll get ostracised, excluded, possibly even arrested. No wonder chaps tend to be quiet.

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Opening up our feelings to others mean sharing part of our self or phycse.... our vaunerability, our weaknesses, our fears etc.....Could it be that men more often prefer to keep certain traits withheld from others one reason being to avoid hurt and also to avoid defences being brought down.......what you see is what you get....no pride.

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I think most people have children just to give their lives a point.

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I think most people have children just to give their lives a point.

Nah, mine are my pension innit. Can't go wrong with bricks and mortar passing down generational debt.

OT; I'm very quiet as to my emotions. Occasionally it blows up, reminding me that I should be a bit more open with people about how I feel. But as SSC mentioned, I've also had it beaten out of me over the years. I'm not complaining mind, I don't feel desperate or lonely for 99% of the time, I'm actually very contented with my life.

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Nah, mine are my pension innit. Can't go wrong with bricks and mortar passing down generational debt.

OT; I'm very quiet as to my emotions. Occasionally it blows up, reminding me that I should be a bit more open with people about how I feel. But as SSC mentioned, I've also had it beaten out of me over the years. I'm not complaining mind, I don't feel desperate or lonely for 99% of the time, I'm actually very contented with my life.

Oh dear. I can feel a winkie coming on.

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My loneliest period was during marriage. Not allowed to have friends because of her raging jealousy. I didn't realise until after she ******ed off.

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If you think youre lonely its because you are. You have figured it out. You are nowt more then a serious of complicated (admittedly very complicated) chemical reactions going on for an amount of time that is either very long or very short. Who knows. The trick is not to think about it verymuch. Back in the day nobody had that much time to think it through so didn't get themselves into too much bother. The hyperbole that surrounds us these days about how deep, how spiritual, how satisfying life should be is relentless. I wonder how much the suicide rate increases after a facebook or microsoft windows advert is broadcast. Even someone as sanguine as me about life is briefly plunged into existentialist despair about my low level, friendless, unshiny, acheivement free life. Its only after having a word with myself, that I realise those adverts/shows are all bullsh1t and I truly give thanks for my low level, friend free, unshiny, acheivementless life.

As for the difference between male and female, I think the reality is different from the perception.

I worked a heavy industry male dominated on the tools job. And the amount of revealing soul baring conversations ive had with blokes who can barely grunt have been endless. Theres probably little I dont know about the deep feelings of blokes recovering from cancer/ divorce/family trauma/ extreme limerence/ unrisen soufflés/unrequited love for persons of the wrong sex etc etc.

As for my wife, who works in a caring female dominated job... the shallow, banal, mindless chat, interspersed with rivers of gossippy backstabbing she has to plow through everyday gets her seriously down.

And as unfashionable as it is these days to think this. I say man up, stop whining and get on with it. You have to live life as best you can, because as pointless as life is, its the only one you get and not being here is even more pointless.

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Guest eight

As for the difference between male and female, I think the reality is different from the perception.

I worked a heavy industry male dominated on the tools job. And the amount of revealing soul baring conversations ive had with blokes who can barely grunt have been endless. Theres probably little I dont know about the deep feelings of blokes recovering from cancer/ divorce/family trauma/ extreme limerence/ unrisen soufflés/unrequited love for persons of the wrong sex etc etc.

Yep, manual work is great for inner reflection.

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I agree with the man up approach. I reckon 90+% of supposedly 'depressed' people are nothing of the sort.

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Yep, manual work is great for inner reflection.

And outer.

" aye so go on, you were saying you had your left ballock removed and....pass that 20" stilly wouldyou....then what"

"Well the chemo worked...this one....but had to remove one of me tessies..."

" no the bigger one... the red one.....cheers....yes go on"

" aye so I was telling the wife and I burst into tears about how ah felt and she thought I was not asmuch of a man any more."

" what for losing a stone"

" nah for crying like a fookin jessie.... ahfook theres oil p1ssing every where, youve took the return off you bellend......"

Etc etc etc.

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Don't get this, you have to talk to people and get your feelings out in the open and all that stuff.

Most people are more than capable of being self reliant if they make the effort to do so. You don't *need* to talk to other people about problems or traumatic events. Some people may *want* to, but that's not necessary for everyone.

I've seen some so called friends give each other appalling advice. Basically if you are in any way mentally competent then you are the best person to give yourself advice, provided you are prepared to fess up and assess the situation logically and critically.

Somehow society seems to be leaning towards the "it's ok to lean on other people if you have emotional problems". Maybe that's OK if the other people are acting in your best interests, but often they aren't. That includes professional therapists as well as amateur ones.

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Yep, manual work is great for inner reflection.

Men don't have emotions, they have deeper feelings.

As for my wife, who works in a caring female dominated job... the shallow, banal, mindless chat, interspersed with rivers of gossippy backstabbing she has to plow through everyday gets her seriously down.

And as unfashionable as it is these days to think this. I say man up, stop whining and get on with it. You have to live life as best you can, because as pointless as life is, its the only one you get and not being here is even more pointless.

I agree so much with all these statements.

I would also say I believe on the whole men are more sensitive than women. Women can be very sensitive indeed...but too often, to their own feelings. Once men have gotten through the teen stuff they actually look into the big picture and they realise its more complex than they thought. It can be scary.

In the west we often have way too much time on our hands, for inner evaluation which is often useless.

We are too selfish in the west, we are taught that the individual is more important than the group. This can make us feel very lonely though.

Deep down we believe the answer is within ourselves not talking with others and I believe this myself. We need time with other men but often don`t get the chance as other cultures allow men to. Liberation for women hasn`t made women any happier it seems to me, but it`s made men feel more confused about their role. Along with the state acting as a paternal figure to women and their children....who needs men? where do men go from here?

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Liberation for women hasn`t made women any happier it seems to me, but it`s made men feel more confused about their role.

Very well put.

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I agree so much with all these statements.

I would also say I believe on the whole men are more sensitive than women. Women can be very sensitive indeed...but too often, to their own feelings. Once men have gotten through the teen stuff they actually look into the big picture and they realise its more complex than they thought. It can be scary.

In the west we often have way too much time on our hands, for inner evaluation which is often useless.

We are too selfish in the west, we are taught that the individual is more important than the group. This can make us feel very lonely though.

Deep down we believe the answer is within ourselves not talking with others and I believe this myself. We need time with other men but often don`t get the chance as other cultures allow men to. Liberation for women hasn`t made women any happier it seems to me, but it`s made men feel more confused about their role. Along with the state acting as a paternal figure to women and their children....who needs men? where do men go from here?

Interesting......what is a mans role?

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