Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged

[Neverwhere]

9 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

What a lot of you lot don't recognise, because you haven't studied The Gospel of The Wig closely enough, is that these guys are operating on a whole different level - and they have transcended your collectivist notions of decency.

You need to get yourselves a copy of  Ayn Rand's sequel to her earlier book about shrugging, the much less well known Wergus Shrugged.

Wergus Shrugged (WS) is the founding work of the philosophical school of objectionablism, in which the individual seeks to be as objectionable as possible. As the eponymous character states after pushing an estate agent off his chair, "I do not put the rents up because I can - I put them up because I must!".

WS features a book-within-the-book, Anastasia and the Horses of Boughton Lodge lasagne, a story about how a brave young girl single-handedly slaughters a whole stable of horses and uses the meat produced to make enough lasagne to feed a company of SS men for a week, which she then uses to feed a company of SS men for a week (google the title, leave out the word 'lasagne')

In a key episode early in the first chapter of WS, Fergus has a difficult meeting with his publisher, at the publisher's country estate. Appalled by the publisher's assessment of the novel as "unreadable sick shite that has left me traumatised" Wergus alludes to the difference between a real man and a lesser man.

In objectionablism people seek to distinguish themselves as real men (or indeed real women) by engaging in acts of exploitation thus earning C**t Points which in the fullness of time can be traded in for medals awarded by ARLA, much as in the past Esso gave you stamps you could trade in for highball glasses.

[Neverwhere]

24 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

(google the title, leave out the word 'lasagne')

Then google 'Hilda's War'. 

(I've come across this before but it's always more ridiculous than I remember it.)

Edited January 4, 2017 by Neverwhere

[Eddie_George]

1 hour ago, Neverwhere said:

Anastasia and the Horses of Boughton Lodge

Did he also pen "Samantha and Thunder"?

A damn fine read that one.

 

[Foreverblowingbubbles]

6 hours ago, Neverwhere said:

They have absolutely no sense of decency.

Wow. They've really lost the plot now. 

This does remind me of a world War 2 evacuation story, something a fellow veteran who fought with my grand dad told this to my dad...  Grand-dad never spoke of the war, he was too traumatized by it. 

So my grand dad was in a sea evacuation. He was sent to run a message, and so got on a boat a few minutes later than he would have otherwise. The boat that he would have gotten on was bit further out, hit a mine, and caught fire. The water had a slick of oil on top of it, and the surface also caught fire. Men were jumping from the boats, but into the burning water. Their own  men turned guns on the men who were burning in the water -  there was nothing they could do to save them.

Dark, I know. Sorry if it upset anyone. My grand dad never spoke of that. Hopefully it was just a story, but I don't think so

Anyway, obviously in my story, the over-leveraged landlords are jumping from the burning craft, and the government, regulators and banks will be putting them out of their misery shortly

 

[Byron]

13 hours ago, Foreverblowingbubbles said:

Wow. They've really lost the plot now. 

This does remind me of a world War 2 evacuation story, something a fellow veteran who fought with my grand dad told this to my dad...  Grand-dad never spoke of the war, he was too traumatized by it. 

So my grand dad was in a sea evacuation. He was sent to run a message, and so got on a boat a few minutes later than he would have otherwise. The boat that he would have gotten on was bit further out, hit a mine, and caught fire. The water had a slick of oil on top of it, and the surface also caught fire. Men were jumping from the boats, but into the burning water. Their own  men turned guns on the men who were burning in the water -  there was nothing they could do to save them.

Dark, I know. Sorry if it upset anyone. My grand dad never spoke of that. Hopefully it was just a story, but I don't think so

Anyway, obviously in my story, the over-leveraged landlords are jumping from the burning craft, and the government, regulators and banks will be putting them out of their misery shortly

 

Grim,

My own father told me how he was skipper of a tank landing craft and had to enter an Italian harbour whilst the landing was raging.

His tanks were urgently needed ashore and he had to plough through the harbour which had a large number of floating bodies and live men all in the water.

[Pop321]

16 hours ago, Byron said:

Grim,

My own father told me how he was skipper of a tank landing craft and had to enter an Italian harbour whilst the landing was raging.

His tanks were urgently needed ashore and he had to plough through the harbour which had a large number of floating bodies and live men all in the water.

Swings and roundabouts. That generation didn't have the worry of which phone or tv to get...it's the choices today that make life hard. Easier back then, less complex choices.... although the coffee was worse. 

Joking apart, makes you shudder when you see what the 'pre boomers' went through. I have some old tick box correspondence from my grandfather that the soldiers used to send home from the trenches in WW1 (ie tick box to avoid hidden messages/codes in letters). They include a simple tick for the degree of injury you had. 

I guess 118'ers will liken their situation to WW1 trenches soon....don't think they have used that one yet. 

[spyguy]

1 minute ago, Phil321 said:

Swings and roundabouts. That generation didn't have the worry of which phone or tv to get...it's the choices today that make life hard. Easier back then, less complex choices.... although the coffee was worse. 

Joking apart, makes you shudder when you see what the 'pre boomers' went through. I have some old tick box correspondence from my grandfather that the soldiers used to send home from the trenches in WW1 (ie tick box to avoid hidden messages/codes in letters). They include a simple tick for the degree of injury you had. 

I guess 118'ers will liken their situation to WW1 trenches soon....don't think they have used that one yet. 

My GPs had it hard - worked hard. One set died in their 60s. Other set lived til mid 80s, but carried on working till their 80s.

Parents have barely worked - Dad manged ~20 years in total. 'Retired' in his late 40s. Sat around on benefits.  Gets stacks of pensions and extras.

Dad was the generatiin who p1ssed it all away in the 70s. Striking as noone wasnted to buy the crap stuff they made.

 

[ThePiltdownMan]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4048980/Buy-let-mortgage-rates-predicted-fall-2017.html

Quote

Landlords with just one or two buy-to-lets are likely to see mortgage rates cut in 2017 but professionals with larger portfolios may find they are forced to pay more.

 

How does this make any sense?

[spyguy]

26 minutes ago, ThePiltdownMan said:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4048980/Buy-let-mortgage-rates-predicted-fall-2017.html

 

How does this make any sense?

Its doesn't.

The BTL war will be banks trying to get rid of BTL loans, not attracting new ones.

 

[eek]

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Its doesn't.

The BTL war will be banks trying to get rid of BTL loans, not attracting new ones.

 

Agreed it doesnt make sense unless and until lenders discover they have money that they cannot lend to anyone so cut rates to attract the few borrowers they can lend money to.

Meanwhile all banks are going to ramp up their btl standard variable rates to profit from those unable to find anyone willing or able to issue a new loan

[Jugador]

On 04/01/2017 at 6:55 AM, spyguy said:

Its not that. He *ONLY* has UK interest/income.

You cannot just up and declare yourself resident of Malta when all your assets are in the UK.

Hi,

I think in fact you can, and it's actually unavoidable if you want to spend the majority of your time elsewhere.  

My experience is with Spain, and after 183 days there in any calendar year, then Spain is your place of residence for that year. The fact that you have assets in the UK makes no difference, you are resident and should then fill in the Spanish tax forms declaring your world wide assets and income, and they'll then decide what you pay. In the case of Spain, somebody with assets in property in the UK would end up paying some tax in both countries.

[CunningPlan]

3 minutes ago, Jugador said:

Hi,

I think in fact you can, and it's actually unavoidable if you want to spend the majority of your time elsewhere.  

My experience is with Spain, and after 183 days there in any calendar year, then Spain is your place of residence for that year. The fact that you have assets in the UK makes no difference, you are resident and should then fill in the Spanish tax forms declaring your world wide assets and income, and they'll then decide what you pay. In the case of Spain, somebody with assets in property in the UK would end up paying some tax in both countries.

Yes but...

You pay your tax in Spain. Then the UK works out what your tax liability would have been had you still been in the UK, deducts the amount paid in Spain under the double taxation treaty and then hits you for the balance.

[Jugador]

6 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

Yes but...

You pay your tax in Spain. Then the UK works out what your tax liability would have been had you still been in the UK, deducts the amount paid in Spain under the double taxation treaty and then hits you for the balance.

Yes, correct. As I said, you'll pay in both countries. And, in the case of income from property rental, the UK will take the tax on that.

The point I was making is that it is possible to "just up and declare yourself resident [of another EU country]". Although it does of course involve living there.

[Bland Unsight]

15 minutes ago, Jugador said:

Yes, correct. As I said, you'll pay in both countries. And, in the case of income from property rental, the UK will take the tax on that.

The point I was making is that it is possible to "just up and declare yourself resident [of another EU country]". Although it does of course involve living there.

I think that the most important thing will not be whether you declare yourself resident in another EU country (e.g. Malta), it is whether or not HMRC concurs with your declaration.

[spyguy]

On 29/12/2016 at 7:51 AM, lastlaugh said:

 

[spyguy]

Its less resident,its tax resident. Which the HMRC have some views on.

[Jugador]

3 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

I think that the most important thing will not be whether you declare yourself resident in another EU country (e.g. Malta), it is whether or not HMRC concurs with your declaration.

The timing of when you must register and how many days you have to be there differ by country, but in the case of EU countries it is clear and agreed upon. Using Spain as an example, if you spend 183 days there you are considered tax resident whether you like it or not. If the authorities find out you have been living there they will come after you. And when they do, they will be in touch with HRMC who will actively assist them. HMRC will concur with the Spanish authorities, the individual involved actually has no choice whatsoever.

[Bland Unsight]

16 minutes ago, Jugador said:

The timing of when you must register and how many days you have to be there differ by country, but in the case of EU countries it is clear and agreed upon. Using Spain as an example, if you spend 183 days there you are considered tax resident whether you like it or not. If the authorities find out you have been living there they will come after you. And when they do, they will be in touch with HRMC who will actively assist them. HMRC will concur with the Spanish authorities, the individual involved actually has no choice whatsoever.

I think you're missing my point.

Let's imagine a half-wit ex-breakdancer trying to pass himself off as resident in Malta and only resident in Malta.

He may meet the Maltese requirements for considering himself tax resident in Malta.

However, HMRC might determine that he is also tax resident in the UK and will therefore pursue him for any CGT on any gains he has made on UK property, taxing him as tax resident in the UK.

What you declare yourself as being is all when and good, but if you have CGT liabilities that will bankrupt you if you have to pay them, what really matters is whether or not HMRC agree. What you think, as the aspiring tax exile, is pretty much irrelevant in terms of successfully escaping bankruptcy at the hands of CGT.

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Bland Unsight

[Jugador]

14 hours ago, Bland Unsight said:

I think you're missing my point.

Let's imagine a half-wit ex-breakdancer trying to pass himself off as resident in Malta and only resident in Malta.

He may meet the Maltese requirements for considering himself tax resident in Malta.

However, HMRC might determine that he is also tax resident in the UK and will therefore pursue him for any CGT on any gains he has made on UK property, taxing him as tax resident in the UK.

What you declare yourself as being is all when and good, but if you have CGT liabilities that will bankrupt you if you have to pay them, what really matters is whether or not HMRC agree. What you think, as the aspiring tax exile, is pretty much irrelevant in terms of successfully escaping bankruptcy at the hands of CGT.

 

Nope, not missed a thing. Your breakdancer who passes himself off as resident in Malta is in fact a resident in Malta and only in Malta, and is therefore non-resident in the UK, and everywhere else. HMRC will not determine that he is also tax resident in the UK, they will determine that he is tax resident in Malta but is required to pay UK tax on his UK income.

Back to the original point, you, me, anybody who resides in the UK can in fact "just up and declare ourselves resident of Malta when all your assets are in the UK", by moving there and staying over the qualifying time. It's also wise to let HRMC know and fill in their form if necessary.

It's certainly true to say that what aspiring tax exiles think is irrelevant, agreements between the countries decide what they pay where.

[EnglishinWales]

BTLers whining that they can't have it both ways. Unbelievable.

[Bland Unsight]

1 hour ago, Jugador said:

Nope, not missed a thing. Your breakdancer who passes himself off as resident in Malta is in fact a resident in Malta and only in Malta, and is therefore non-resident in the UK, and everywhere else. HMRC will not determine that he is also tax resident in the UK, they will determine that he is tax resident in Malta but is required to pay UK tax on his UK income.

Back to the original point, you, me, anybody who resides in the UK can in fact "just up and declare ourselves resident of Malta when all your assets are in the UK", by moving there and staying over the qualifying time. It's also wise to let HRMC know and fill in their form if necessary.

It's certainly true to say that what aspiring tax exiles think is irrelevant, agreements between the countries decide what they pay where.

OK, I might go a bit further now that you've made the matter explicit and say that on the specific point I'm making, you are wrong.

Someone who had in the previous tax year been UK resident (physically and for tax purposes) could then live in the UK for say three months of the year and Malta for the other nine months in the next tax year. They would be tax resident in Malta by virtue of their actual residence in Malta, and could up and declare themselves resident in Malta on that basis (and indeed tax resident too). However, under the UK's Statutory Residence Test they may also be deemed tax resident in the UK, and it is an anticipated outcome of European national tax rules that some EU citizens could be deemed tax resident in two EU countries.

There is, as you suggest, the separate matter of having to pay UK taxes on UK income and gains on UK property regardless of where you are tax resident, so even the All Malta Breakdance Champion of 1988 who lives in Malta, has only ever lived in Malta and will only ever live in Malta, will have to pay UK tax on their UK rental income.

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Bland Unsight

[Ah-so]

1 hour ago, Jugador said:

Nope, not missed a thing. Your breakdancer who passes himself off as resident in Malta is in fact a resident in Malta and only in Malta, and is therefore non-resident in the UK, and everywhere else. HMRC will not determine that he is also tax resident in the UK, they will determine that he is tax resident in Malta but is required to pay UK tax on his UK income.

Back to the original point, you, me, anybody who resides in the UK can in fact "just up and declare ourselves resident of Malta when all your assets are in the UK", by moving there and staying over the qualifying time. It's also wise to let HRMC know and fill in their form if necessary.

It's certainly true to say that what aspiring tax exiles think is irrelevant, agreements between the countries decide what they pay where.

If he intends to stay in Malta for over 183 days of the year then he will clearly become tax resident there. However, it will be far harder to change his tax domicile in the eyes of HMRC. He does not seem to pass any of the tests for becoming domiciled in Malta.

Quote

 

http://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/the-difference-between-domicile-and-residence/

Why is your domicile important

Among many things, your domicile is important when it comes to determining your tax liabilities in three main areas: your income tax (from investment or employment), Capital Gains Tax and Inheritance Tax.

The criteria for changing your domicile are varied and each case will be judged on it's merit incorporating the evidence provided. The basic criteria for changing your domicile will typically include as an absolute minimum:

• Leaving the country in which you are domiciled and settle in another country
• Provide strong evidence that you intend to live in your new location permanently or indefinitely

 

•  

Edited January 7, 2017 by Ah-so

[Jugador]

5 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

OK, I might go a bit further now that you've made the matter explicit and say that on the specific point I'm making, you are wrong.

Someone who had in the previous tax year been UK resident (physically and for tax purposes) could then live in the UK for say three months of the year and Malta for the other nine months in the next tax year. They would be tax resident in Malta by virtue of their actual residence in Malta, and could up and declare themselves resident in Malta on that basis (and indeed tax resident too). However, under the UK's Statutory Residence Test they may also be deemed tax resident in the UK, and it is an anticipated outcome of European national tax rules that some EU citizens could be deemed tax resident in two EU countries.

There is, as you suggest, the separate matter of having to pay UK taxes on UK income and gains on UK property regardless of where you are tax resident, so even the All Malta Breakdance Champion of 1988 who has lives in Malta, has only ever lived in Malta and will only ever live in Malta, will have to pay UK tax on their UK rental income.

He would be resident in the UK then Malta and it would be handled under the split year rules.

I really can't be bothered disappearing any further down this hole. The fact remains, if a UK resident with UK assets wants to "just up and declare themselves resident of Malta when all their assets are in the UK" then they can. Which was my only point. Yes, HMRC will still have an interest in them, of course, it was never argued that they wouldn't.

The link you provided contains exactly what I expected it to. One country, the one in which you spend more than 6 months, will claim the right to tax your world wide assets and income, whilst your home country (and any other in which you have worked and lived in in the past) may continue to have an interest in your assets and income there. As the document, fortunately their are agreements between countries which make it all clear, avoiding people paying taxes on the same income twice. Malta is one of them.

Despite being wrong I have successfully navigated the whole process on more than one occasion, involving both EU and non-EU countries.  Filling out all the required forms with HRMC up-front eased it all, but then I wasn't trying to dodge any taxes.

 

[keeprenting]

Can we just be clear about something? Going non-resident, even for >5 years, does not prevent you from being liable to capital gains tax on sale of UK residential property. A Maltese resident pays at 28%, same as a UK resident.

The general rule is that non-residents don't pay UK CGT but this was recently changed for residential property.

[Jugador]

23 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

If he intends to stay in Malta for over 183 days of the year then he will clearly become tax resident there. However, it will be far harder to change his tax domicile in the eyes of HMRC. He does not seen to pass any of the tests for becoming domiciled in Malta.

If you're talking about a specific person and their circumstances I am not aware.  

I was making the point that anybody can up and go and be a resident elsewhere, which is pretty obvious, I know. Although, it doesn't mean they walk away from their tax responsibilities, of course.