Guest eight Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I wonder how many of the Muslim apologists on here would be happy for their daughter to marry a Saudi and go and live there? That's a point I frequently wonder about. Those who eulogise, or enthuse, or are just intensely relaxed about Islam but aren't actually prepared to convert - are they tolerant, hypocritical, what? Or do they just talk a good game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 That's a point I frequently wonder about. Those who eulogise, or enthuse, or are just intensely relaxed about Islam but aren't actually prepared to convert - are they tolerant, hypocritical, what? Or do they just talk a good game?Well, the alternative appears to be to euthanise, but quite a few of us don't currently believe that to be a viable operational strategy on ever so many levels. Oh, and well said Mr Okes. Edited for smelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well, the alternative appears to be to euthanise, but quite a few of us don't currently believe that to be a viable operational strategy on ever so many levels. Oh, and well said Mr Okes. Edited for smelling. Well let's reverse it a bit. I don't want to be a Muslim. Why not? Am I Islamophobic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 http://www.davidmcelroy.org/?p=17700 We knew this in the 1980s...plus ca change... P The Power of Nightmares (adam curtis, so a little eccentric but on point): https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-Episode1BabyItsColdOutside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The fundamental disagreement seems to be whether there is 'one God' and that 'God is one' or whether in fact God is made up of three parts simultaneously - "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit", the Holy Trinity. Now, I for one have never quite grasped the tripartite argument, particularly what on earth the Holy Spirit is. Can anyone enlighten me? I feel most Christians have never really considered this but would be happy for any practising Christians to explain. Apparently (and I have discussed this at quite some length) its nothing at all like polytheism. Nor are the angels and whatnot anything at all like the junior or child godettes in some other religion. Even though they fulfil the exact same roles. Last I heard the holy ghost was like the nervous system, the father like the brain and the son like the hand... All one yet all separate. Not of course at all like the government,army and police forces. Still, whatever floats their boat (as long as they don't nick my wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well let's reverse it a bit. I don't want to be a Muslim. Why not? Am I Islamophobic? I would definitely say that the 2 aren't usually mutually exclusive. Indeed I don't believe either is a necessary condition or even a sufficient one for the other... Just a lazy rhetorical device devoid of real logic. But that said, I have a feeling you might be, but that is pure speculation on my part, after all, some of my best friends are religious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The fundamental disagreement seems to be whether there is 'one God' and that 'God is one' or whether in fact God is made up of three parts simultaneously - "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit", the Holy Trinity. Now, I for one have never quite grasped the tripartite argument, particularly what on earth the Holy Spirit is. Can anyone enlighten me? I feel most Christians have never really considered this but would be happy for any practising Christians to explain. I queried the local vicar on this. god is god, the Son is what he sent to talk to us, and the spirit is that which enters us. If you are into scifi or quantum issues, then the idea of three states of being is everyday stuff. Is god a wave or a particle or is it just something you believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitevanman Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm ambivalent on these kind of threads for the most part but I'll chip in In the classic sense, an Apologist is someone who actively defends a set of beliefs that they share: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics e.g. C.S Lewis, noted Christian Apologist. Apologists use rhetoric to imply a set of beliefs aren't as bad as they look, you just need to understand what they mean. They tend to be wishey washey as opposed to hard line but still entrenched in the tradition. So someone offering an alternative viewpoint on an internet forum isn't really an apologist. Unless they're a Muslim and they're defending Islam. Or a Jihadist defending executions. If someone offers a viewpoint. .."This is something you should all be REEEAALLLLY worried about", and someone offers an alternative viewpoint...."I choose not to worry about it"....well thats something else, not Apologetics. And calling someone a Muslim Apologist is just another rhetorical trick. "If you're not for us, you must be against us"...that sort of thing. P Ultra leftists and Islamists share a great deal. In that sense the leftists (UAF et al) that defend Islam are apologists. The left control the political discourse via political correctness. Step outside the bounds of PC and you become a non-person. Islam uses the same technique to exercise control via Sharia. Break those laws and you become an ex-person. They are both totalitarian, both violent and both suppress our humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well, according to the diagram, that is incorrect. Basically, you are saying that he said that God was the Father who begat the Son to talk to us.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity the Inspired Word of the Wiki trumps all. So if I am a Christian, and I happen to disagree with the above, should I call for the death of say, you, for even publishing this heracy? Off with your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 This is worth a read. The actor Ben Affeck had a heated discussion with the talk show host Maher about Islam on Friday night. Maher argued that, well, it is akin to many of the thoughts expressed in this thread already. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780960/It-s-gross-s-racist-Ben-Affleck-clashes-guest-Bill-Maher-talk-claims-Islam-motherload-bad-ideas-host-compares-religion-Mafia.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitevanman Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 It's only really in the last decade that Islam has risen in the West. In that sense most of us are not directly affected, we haven't been touched personally so don't have any fear. That's set to change, more and more of us will be affected by Muslim supremacism. Terrorism is a red herring, it's the everyday injustices that people suffer in societies with significant Muslim populations. The corruption, double standards, sexual exploitation and repression of free speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 An horrific and brutal murder is exactly that. What it shouldn't be allowed to be is propaganda to suit the political ends of the perpetrators, nor propaganda to suit the political ends of those who wish to eradicate the perpetrators. Sadly, in this politicised, media driven nonsense of a world, that's what it has now become. That's what's sickening (to me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The comparison with Christianity is nonsense. The relationship with God is fundamentally different. It's what allows separation of church and state. In Islam separation of church and state is impossible because the religion IS the law and governs everything, down to whether god thinks you should wipe your ass with your left hand or your right. If you disagree it's a stoning for you. Completely and utterly batshit in a way that Christianity isn't. Even if you think that both are batshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 the Inspired Word of the Wiki trumps all. So if I am a Christian, and I happen to disagree with the above, should I call for the death of say, you, for even publishing this heracy? Off with your head. Traditionally, yes... Burning, torture, beheading, eviscerating, raping, exterminating. All that good stuff in the name of the almighty. Or at least your prefered brand of it. You must have come across some of that in your reading? There's been a good 2000 years of it, not to mention what came before the big corporate restructure and rebranding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The comparison with Christianity is nonsense. The relationship with God is fundamentally different. It's what allows separation of church and state. In Islam separation of church and state is impossible because the religion IS the law and governs everything, down to whether god thinks you should wipe your ass with your left hand or your right. If you disagree it's a stoning for you. Completely and utterly batshit in a way that Christianity isn't. Even if you think that both are batshit. That same Christianity that says you can't wear a Mac on your little chap? That says kids born out of wedlock (mad as that concept is) should be ripped from their mothers and sent to someone more deserving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 That same Christianity that says you can't wear a Mac on your little chap? That says kids born out of wedlock (mad as that concept is) should be ripped from their mothers and sent to someone more deserving?All religions have their share of ridiculous and unpleasant rules. Some have more than others though (and some have more followers who ignore the more ridiculous parts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well, according to the diagram, that is incorrect. Basically, you are saying that he said that God was the Father who begat the Son to talk to us.... Uh? I came on here to discuss Islamic fundamentalism. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.At least Christianity has progressed and passed through that stage. Unlike Islam, a political ideology using religion as a cloak, that is firmly stuck in the thirteenth century. For Christ's sake (pun intended) what kind of nutjob "religion" makes it a principle that you must use your left, or is it right, hand to wipe your **** (bottom)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 That same Christianity that says you can't wear a Mac on your little chap? That says kids born out of wedlock (mad as that concept is) should be ripped from their mothers and sent to someone more deserving? OK, but if you hadn't noticed no one really takes any notice. And that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Ultra leftists and Islamists share a great deal. In that sense the leftists (UAF et al) that defend Islam are apologists. The left control the political discourse via political correctness. Step outside the bounds of PC and you become a non-person. Islam uses the same technique to exercise control via Sharia. Break those laws and you become an ex-person. They are both totalitarian, both violent and both suppress our humanity.How do you distinguish between the apologists and those who point out a genuine error or unbalanced or exaggerated position? I've no real idea what the spread of views and opinions Muslims hold is, but sometimes even trying to suggest the idea of finding out gets you branded an apologist - they must all be evil and you're up to something if you even dare question that (even only to the point of view of not accepting anything without a bit of real evidence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 OK, but if you hadn't noticed no one really takes any notice. And that's the point. Wow...not that up to date on your global current affairs, or just assume that everywhere is like your local tea and biscuits suburb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 An horrific and brutal murder is exactly that. What it shouldn't be allowed to be is propaganda to suit the political ends of the perpetrators, nor propaganda to suit the political ends of those who wish to eradicate the perpetrators. Sadly, in this politicised, media driven nonsense of a world, that's what it has now become. That's what's sickening (to me) +1 Amen to that entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 How women and others are treated and the way they barbarically kill people is like something going back to the dark ages....they are living an ancient life in a modern world.......you could say we once did the same, as Henry viii did. Our country so much more accommodating to people of all faiths, we are a Christian country and we allow all faiths to have places to worship and are happy for them to practice peaceful religions amongst us without indoctrinating their beliefs onto us. That is why so many people from all over the world wish to live here, they feel safe practising their religion here. Could we enter certain other countries in the world and set up a Christian church? Would we be made to feel welcome? Are Christians and other religions persecuted in some countries of another faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Now, I for one have never quite grasped the tripartite argument, particularly what on earth the Holy Spirit is. Can anyone enlighten me? I feel most Christians have never really considered this but would be happy for any practising Christians to explain. Father - Mother - Son, this was the basis for a lot of religious cults around the Mediterranean at the time of the rise of Christianity, the largest being Osiris, Isis and Horus. Early Christianity took quite a lot from the this cult, although not nearly so much as the cult of Sol Invictus The Holy Ghost is just what you call the Mother element when you disenfranchise women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Uh? I came on here to discuss Islamic fundamentalism. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. At least Christianity has progressed and passed through that stage. Unlike Islam, a political ideology using religion as a cloak, that is firmly stuck in the thirteenth century. For Christ's sake (pun intended) what kind of nutjob "religion" makes it a principle that you must use your left, or is it right, hand to wipe your **** (bottom)! saying all that, Islam IS very popular...It must appeal on some level to those who beleive in it. It does seem to be based on the writings of the Arabian Ron L Hubbard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I wonder how many of the Muslim apologists on here would be happy for their daughter to marry a Saudi and go and live there? You don't have top be an "apologist" to not view 1.6 billion people as a single homogeneous lump in need of extermination. You also don't have to be an "apologist" to not think that abandoning our liberal values just so we can impose some hideous f*cked up caricature of our legal principles over any oil rich deserts is a great idea. When it comes to the rise of Islam in our society, our government are doing the worst possible thing (what a surprise). Getting rid of state funded religious schools is the obvious thing to do if religious factionalism is threatening society, but instead they decide to promote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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