Frank Hovis Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 More like 35p. [110p - VAT = 92p 58p duty, so 92p-58p = 34p] Remember electricity has VAT at 5%, so the electric cars gain there as well. A decent car might do 50mpg - so the government currently gets about 7p tax per mile for an ICE engine. And that is what we'll be looking at (minimum) when they introduce road pricing as soon as there is a significant number of freeloading electric cars. [110-34 = 76p tax per litre. 50mpg = 11 mpl, so 7p tax per mile] That's a lot of road tax to replace. As with solar panels there is likely to be a sweet spot where manufacturing improvements have halved the price but the government still gives a big subsidy. I'd guess that's about 5 - 8 years away so I'll look to get one then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 Norway not banning petrol and diesel cars in 2025. The story even led to Norway receiving a pat on the back from Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla Motors – a company known for its designing and manufacturing of electric cars. “Just heard that Norway will ban new sales of fuel cars in 2025. What an amazingly awesome country. You guys rock!!” Musk tweeted. But as Musk and environmentalists across the globe celebrated Norway's progressive plan, the conservative party called the article “misleading. “The government and its partners agree on a new step on the way towards a low-emission society...but there is no talk of banning the sale of diesel and petrol vehicles in 2025 as one would be led to believe in Dagens Næringsliv,” the party said in a press release, as quoted by The Local. Elvestuen also stepped forward after the report's publication, clarifying that the parties had only agreed to “set target numbers for how many low- and zero emissions” cars there should be in Norway in 2025. The agreement is aimed at reaching climate goals due to be presented next year as part of the country's national transport plan. “We have not reached an agreement on how to reach the goals,” he said. https://www.rt.com/news/345540-norway-petrol-cars-report/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 The more I drive our iMIev the less I like driving our petrol engine car, despite the petrol engine car having two and a half times the HP of the iMiev. There is something inherently superior about the driving experience in an electric car, I think it's a combination of the high torque available from 1 rpm onwards, the total absence of engine vibrations, the lack of noise, the smoothness when accelerating which all together provide a feeling of floating through time and space (no I'm not drunk and not on drugs). Petrol and Diesel cars feel crude and backward in comparison. At some point I want to try out a Tesla Model S, with it's 700HP the driving experience must be mind blowing (even compared to similar petrol engine sports cars due to the reasons mentioned above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 The more I drive our iMIev the less I like driving our petrol engine car, despite the petrol engine car having two and a half times the HP of the iMiev. There is something inherently superior about the driving experience in an electric car, I think it's a combination of the high torque available from 1 rpm onwards, the total absence of engine vibrations, the lack of noise, the smoothness when accelerating which all together provide a feeling of floating through time and space (no I'm not drunk and not on drugs). Petrol and Diesel cars feel crude and backward in comparison. At some point I want to try out a Tesla Model S, with it's 700HP the driving experience must be mind blowing (even compared to similar petrol engine sports cars due to the reasons mentioned above). I had the exact same experience. I prefer driving the electric car over our old school combustion engine tractor (which is what it feels like in comparison). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 The more I drive our iMIev the less I like driving our petrol engine car, despite the petrol engine car having two and a half times the HP of the iMiev. There is something inherently superior about the driving experience in an electric car, I think it's a combination of the high torque available from 1 rpm onwards, the total absence of engine vibrations, the lack of noise, the smoothness when accelerating which all together provide a feeling of floating through time and space (no I'm not drunk and not on drugs). Petrol and Diesel cars feel crude and backward in comparison. At some point I want to try out a Tesla Model S, with it's 700HP the driving experience must be mind blowing (even compared to similar petrol engine sports cars due to the reasons mentioned above). Yes it is. The noise of the motor in a Tesla feels like you have a jet engine under your accelerator pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Yes it is. The noise of the motor in a Tesla feels like you have a jet engine under your accelerator pedal. I very much doubt that the Tesla is that loud, even at top speed (130 km/h) I can barely hear the motor in the iMiev (but at that speed wind noise is quite high as the iMiev isn't really built for motorway driving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I had the exact same experience. I prefer driving the electric car over our old school combustion engine tractor (which is what it feels like in comparison). "Tractor"! That's exactly Mrs JTB's description of stink-powered cars now that she's been driving the EV. She also (very occasionally now) drives a very decent Merc. Not a vehicle most people would describe as "agricultural"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 "Tractor"! That's exactly Mrs JTB's description of stink-powered cars now that she's been driving the EV. She also (very occasionally now) drives a very decent Merc. Not a vehicle most people would describe as "agricultural"! indeed....@woooooosh vs @dakdakadakdaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Can't argue with that. Two or three years ago electric cars looked like a gimmick, now there's a feeling of them being on the threshold of exploding into, well, being the boring, mundane norm, which is where they should be. And yes, it's something new I like the look of (means of generation aside). Yep.. I don't think they will go mainstream as quickly as some people think, but I can see that from here on in the number of electric (/part-electric) vehicles is only going one way. My guess would be about a doubling every year from now on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 At some point I want to try out a Tesla Model S, with it's 700HP the driving experience must be mind blowing (even compared to similar petrol engine sports cars due to the reasons mentioned above). There's two around our way that I see fairly frequently.. Seem to be (driven like) the modern Ferrari substitute for kids with lots of dosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 There's two around our way that I see fairly frequently.. Seem to be (driven like) the modern Ferrari substitute for kids with lots of dosh. As soon as the proles start taking to electric in significant numbers (Tesla 3), they'll go back to driving petrol V8s and even pay more for the privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I very much doubt that the Tesla is that loud, even at top speed (130 km/h) I can barely hear the motor in the iMiev (but at that speed wind noise is quite high as the iMiev isn't really built for motorway driving). It's not the loudness, it's the feeling of immense power. It does have a distinct whirring sound when you put your foot down which I can't quite describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 It's not the loudness, it's the feeling of immense power. It does have a distinct whirring sound when you put your foot down which I can't quite describe. Ok, I clearly misunderstood you then, what you describe there is exactly what I imagined and would like to try for myself at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Tesla announces the Obike - an electric motorcycle in honor of President Obama http://www.examiner.com/article/tesla-announces-the-obike-an-electric-motorcycle-honor-of-president-obama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 However, as RK points out, the money saving results pretty much entirely from tax advantages which may evaporate at some point in the future. Not sure how they can specifically tax electricity for use in charging cars though. The other factor is that electric drive systems are mechanically vastly simpler than internal combustion engine, the motor has just a few moving parts vs many hundreds (if you include the fuel system, air system, gearbox, clutch etc) and no combustion by products which are a major source of wear and corrosion. Also there is vastly less heat stress on the mechanical and electrical components. The life span of electric cars could run into millions of miles rather than 100's of K. Batteries though are currently the weak link but even now that is probably offset by the lack of mechanical servicing requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 They can tax the cars; currently there is a government subsidy which will fall away and then be replaced with increasing amounts of purchase tax to offset the loss of fuel duty. As the slashing of solar and windfarm subsidies has shown the government is only prepared to spend or lose a finite amount of money in encouraging new tech. At the present the number of electric cars is tiny so the loss in fuel duty is barely noticeable and there is no prospect of changes any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Pay per mile taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I suppose electric cars are still a bit of a novelty. When everyone is buying them the Government will want their cut and subsidies will evaporate, er, like with tobacco. Fuel duty is quite a lot but at least it is related to vehicle usage, unlike VED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thombleached Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Got the outlander yesterday. Hoping to not use a drop of fuel for the next few weeks but we're driving to France in August and with only a range of c30 miles it's not really feasible to use the ecotricity stations on the way down - although we'll stop where we can. I had a quick go in it last night to see how it handles and it feels like any other 4x4 to me, but silent. It's got a pedestrian warning sound which sound like the future if you're outside! Had a quick go with the app this morning and it's got a few nice features; you can get the car ready in the morning before you set out. You can set it to be cool/hot in the cabin before you get in it and whilst it's plugged into the mains and also you can set the timer for when you want it to charge so you can make good use of cheaper leccy during the night. It hasn't got a massive petrol tank but considering the engine only kicks in when the battery's empty or your flooring it or breaking the speed limit I don't see that being a problem considering my wife does lots of small runs with the kids in tow. Overall very nice car and surprised the level of trim and tech inside considering it's not a premium marque. I'll update when it's seen some decent mileage (and to my wife's horror, once I take it off road for some fun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Mercedes fuel-cell GLC plugs in like an electric car: what does that imply? http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104445_mercedes-fuel-cell-glc-plugs-in-like-an-electric-car-what-does-that-imply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36548893 VW plans huge investment to become electric cars leader Volkswagen plans to launch 30 all-electric models to reposition itself as a leader in "green" transport. Matthias Mueller, chief executive of Europe's biggest carmaker, said huge investments would be needed as the firm moves beyond the "dieselgate" scandal. He hopes that by 2025, all-electric cars would account for about 20-25% of the German carmaker's annual sales. Latest figures show that sales of Volkswagen-branded cars continue to fall behind European rivals. Outlining what he described as the "key building blocks in the new group strategy", Mr Mueller said VW aimed to "transform its core automotive business or, to put it another way, make a fundamental realignment in readiness for the new age of mobility". VW will focus on "the most attractive and fastest-growing market segments", he said. "Special emphasis will be place on e-mobility. The group is planning a broad-based initiative in this area: it intends to launch more than 30 purely battery-powered electric vehicles over the next ten years," he said. VW was plunged into crisis when it was revealed in the US last September that diesel engines had been fitted with software that could distort emissions tests. The company later revealed that some 11 million cars worldwide were affected. 'Integrity'Mr Mueller said VW's transformation would involve investments in the double-digit billions of euros, funded by savings and cost-cuts, with all brands and businesses having to contribute. He told reporters at VW headquarters, in Wolfsburg: "This will require us - following the serious setback as a result of the diesel issue - to learn from mistakes made, rectify shortcomings and establish a corporate culture that is open, value-driven and rooted in integrity." The company's components business, spread across 26 plants, will be streamlined, and there will be a focus on cutting sales and administration costs. On Thursday, car sales data from the European Automobile Manufacturers Association suggested that the VW group continues to suffer from the impact of the diesel scandal. Sales of Volkswagen-branded cars rose 4.1% in May, compared to the same month last year. But that was sluggish when compared to 28.7% growth for Renault and 18.7% growth at PSA Group, owner of Peugeot and Citroen. Market share for the group, which includes Audi, Skoda, and Seat, for the five months to May, was 23.9%, the lowest for the period since 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36548893VW plans huge investment to become electric cars leader They must have found a way to fake the range in tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36548893VW plans huge investment to become electric cars leader It is amazing how conservative/slow car manufacturers are with new technology. But once they start going for the new technology it becomes unstoppable. Tesla ought to be worried. (or, at least, Tesla investors ought to be worried). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 They must have found a way to fake the range in tests. Currently I think if your electric golf runs out of sauce they send a bloke (in a diesel van presumably) out to charge it for you. Edit: Tow it for you If a customer overestimates the car's range and the battery becomes fully drained, they can have the car towed free-of-charge to either the nearest Volkswagen partner, a public charging station or their home. http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/faq/electric-vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 It is amazing how conservative/slow car manufacturers are with new technology. But once they start going for the new technology it becomes unstoppable. Tesla ought to be worried. (or, at least, Tesla investors ought to be worried). I used to think that, but having been to a few car showrooms lately I think many of them just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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