“Nasty Piece of work” Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I am not thinking of buying. It is not the time to hand over several hundreds of thousand pounds (albeit we have the image of a woman to look forward to), in return for a vastly over-priced thing. The mantras "miss the boat", "dead money" and "get on with life" are as embarrassing as they are inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 So you hedge your bets......not a bad way of doing things, both extreams with juggling a few of the other options around in the middle.... Yup - and all circumstances and preferences dependent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I am not thinking of buying. It is not the time to hand over several hundreds of thousand pounds (albeit we have the image of a woman to look forward to), in return for a vastly over-priced thing. The mantras "miss the boat", "dead money" and "get on with life" are as embarrassing as they are inaccurate. Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Where's the endgame? I expected something to give by now. Inflation, rising gilt yields and/or collapsing currency. The currency is down, but far from collapsed. Can they keep doing whatever they want? The MPC is meant to be 9(?) individuals voting each month, independent of the govt, so how can Carney make a long term rates promise? Why would a central bank block themselves in like that. If inflation took off, they'd have no response. Can gilt yields rise? At what point is there so much held by the BoE and the rest by banks as a regulatory burden that the market completely disappears? .... I'm thinking about buying! We have lots of inflation.. in financial assets. Gilt yields have risen sharply since last year. Sterling is in a race to the bottom with other currency devaluers. There's no real market for anything any more, it's vast Ponzi game run by the central banks. When will it end? It's already choking the BRICs and emerging economies to death. Not long now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 From the express link. The Bank of England will upgrade its growth prediction and revise down inflation for 2013. The FTSE will break through the 7,500 mark this year. The economic tealeaves are good news for the convalescing economy and for the Chancellor. The unchanging interest rate is not good news for savers but they may take some comfort from the rest of these optimistic forecasts. Britain does indeed seem to be getting back to business No it's not - it's just going full pelt into more mumbo jumbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 From the express link. No it's not - it's just going full pelt into more mumbo jumbo. Govt spending + mortgage debt fueled consumption. It's the Brown 'miracle' Mark II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unexpected Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Exactly! I don't think there are many on this board who could easily afford to buy for cash and have money left over, but who would rather have the money in the bank. Its quite extreme even for HPC'ers. Having all your eggs in one basket is risky whether that be property or cash in the bank and it seems to me there can be little upside for either. Sainsbury's sent me a letter last week stating that my savings rate with them will soon be only 1% and I opened that account less than a year ago because they gave one of the best interest rates I could find for instant access. Even you must be beginning to wonder whether cash in the bank is the right place to be and especially as its not without its risks these days. Even shares seem less risky IMO. I have cash savings BTW. Its one of my ways to spread the risk. I work as an engineer btw so no VI there just in case you were wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) I don't think there are many on this board who could easily afford to buy for cash and have money left over, but who would rather have the money in the bank. Its quite extreme even for HPC'ers. I could for one. I'm not bragging as you don't know what size property I could buy. Just saying. Having all your eggs in one basket is risky whether that be property or cash in the bank and it seems to me there can be little upside for either. Sainsbury's sent me a letter last week stating that my savings rate with them will soon be only 1% and I opened that account less than a year ago because they gave one of the best interest rates I could find for instant access. I would sooner have all my eggs in one basket than buy something for 100% more than it's worth. Even you must be beginning to wonder whether cash in the bank is the right place to be and especially as its not without its risks these days. Even shares seem less risky IMO. yes, but i doubt it will make me buy a property for 100% more than it is worth - yet, especially when I can use the interest on that money to rent the asset for the forseeable future. Other assets I might consider buying, if they represent value. I have cash savings BTW. Its one of my ways to spread the risk. I work as an engineer btw so no VI there just in case you were wondering. well done, at least someone on here today is being productive Edited August 5, 2013 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I don't think there are many on this board who could easily afford to buy for cash and have money left over, but who would rather have the money in the bank. Its quite extreme even for HPC'ers. Having all your eggs in one basket is risky whether that be property or cash in the bank and it seems to me there can be little upside for either. Sainsbury's sent me a letter last week stating that my savings rate with them will soon be only 1% and I opened that account less than a year ago because they gave one of the best interest rates I could find for instant access. Even you must be beginning to wonder whether cash in the bank is the right place to be and especially as its not without its risks these days. Even shares seem less risky IMO. I have cash savings BTW. Its one of my ways to spread the risk. I work as an engineer btw so no VI there just in case you were wondering. Exactly. There are a few STR (i.e. shorting the housing market) around here though. As for Bruce, he is at a stage of life with sufficient financial resources to be wherever he wants and so it is perfectly ok to do whatever he pleases. In his case, renting probably give him more flexibility. Can't say the same for families with kids in school though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I would sooner have all my eggs in one basket than buy something for 100% more than its worth. Then you are taking the view that the debt backed Sterling is somewhat around the fair value against the basket of goods/services that you will need in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Exactly. There are a few STR (i.e. shorting the housing market) around here though. As for Bruce, he is at a stage of life with sufficient financial resources to be wherever he wants and so it is perfectly ok to do whatever he pleases. In his case, renting probably give him more flexibility. Can't say the same for families with kids in school though. I must live in a nirvana like bubble. a group of 5 houses, all rented, all working families with school age children - I'll wake up one day and realise it's a dream. Rentals varying between 500 and 750 pcm. Edited August 5, 2013 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 This one's on a mission . Bruce, not everyone who disagrees with you is necessarily Karl Marx or an estate agent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Then you are taking the view that the debt backed Sterling is somewhat around the fair value against the basket of goods/services that you will need in the future. No, I'm comparing the purchasing power to houses vs other assets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I must live in a nirvana like bubble. a group of 5 houses, all rented, all working families with school age children - I'll wake up one day and realise it's a dream. Rentals varying between 500 and 750 pcm. If they can't buy then obviously there is no choice. If they can but choose not to then it is their decisions based on their circumstances. If they are staying out for the sole reason for expecting the price to fall - then they are speculating - and if they can afford to speculate, then it is totally fine by me. Buying is effectively paying a fixed sum for all the future rents that one will be paying, plus the freedom to transform the house and the burden to upkeep it that comes with it. As with all fixed price jobs, it could be higher or lower, but no one can foretell the future with any certainty. You may well priced a base case risk of a 20% price fall (so around £20k on average house price of £150k, over 20-30 years) as worthwhile against the hassle of estate agent 'check up', contract renewals, lack of freedom to paint the room pink, but not all do. It certainly sounds to me that you are speculating (for a nominal price fall) - if you can afford to and feel comfortable to, then that is totally fine - but not all feel comfortable doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I don't think there are many on this board who could easily afford to buy for cash and have money left over, but who would rather have the money in the bank. Its quite extreme even for HPC'ers. Having all your eggs in one basket is risky whether that be property or cash in the bank and it seems to me there can be little upside for either. Sainsbury's sent me a letter last week stating that my savings rate with them will soon be only 1% and I opened that account less than a year ago because they gave one of the best interest rates I could find for instant access. Even you must be beginning to wonder whether cash in the bank is the right place to be and especially as its not without its risks these days. Even shares seem less risky IMO. I have cash savings BTW. Its one of my ways to spread the risk. I work as an engineer btw so no VI there just in case you were wondering. Ah yes, you recently bought a house. I remember explaining to you more than once, in great detail, exactly why I'm happiest in cash at the moment and how it has worked out well for me. I can't be bothered to go through it all again, suffice to say, liquidity and portability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Exactly. There are a few STR (i.e. shorting the housing market) around here though. As for Bruce, he is at a stage of life with sufficient financial resources to be wherever he wants and so it is perfectly ok to do whatever he pleases. In his case, renting probably give him more flexibility. Can't say the same for families with kids in school though. Perhaps not in the way you think as I rent a house in the UK, as a base, which is empty for half the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Nasty Piece of work” Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I received that letter from Sainsburys as well. Phoned them to explain as they were following the madness of George, and as a result I would close my account. Whilst it will make no difference, I think the poor lady I spoke to was not new to such calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unexpected Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I received that letter from Sainsburys as well. Phoned them to explain as they were following the madness of George, and as a result I would close my account. Whilst it will make no difference, I think the poor lady I spoke to was not new to such calls. They're just making the decision easier for me to use the money to pay off the mortgage. Unfortunately this means less eggs spread around but I'll not lend them my money for 1% interest. Alternatively remove the money and put into bank shares to get a benefit from them sharfting savers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unexpected Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Ah yes, you recently bought a house. I remember explaining to you more than once, in great detail, exactly why I'm happiest in cash at the moment and how it has worked out well for me. I can't be bothered to go through it all again, suffice to say, liquidity and portability. Liquidity and portability is only valid if you have instant access. Otherwise shares would have more of each. If you believe that your money is safe in the bank then surely bank shares are also safe. As an example Lloyds shares are up perhaps 100% in the past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Liquidity and portability is only valid if you have instant access. Otherwise shares would have more of each. If you believe that your money is safe in the bank then surely bank shares are also safe. As an example Lloyds shares are up perhaps 100% in the past year. Most of my cash is on instant access. With hindsight, the stock market would be a no brainer although with hindsight the horses would be an easier way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 They're just making the decision easier for me to use the money to pay off the mortgage. Unfortunately this means less eggs spread around but I'll not lend them my money for 1% interest. Alternatively remove the money and put into bank shares to get a benefit from them sharfting savers. I average over 3% interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) If they can't buy then obviously there is no choice. If they can but choose not to then it is their decisions based on their circumstances. If they are staying out for the sole reason for expecting the price to fall - then they are speculating - and if they can afford to speculate, then it is totally fine by me. We could all buy something if we wanted to. We all agree it's not sensible to at the moment - as I said, a nirvana like bubble. We don't talk about it much though, we just get on with our lives as they are not on hold because of a mortgage Buying is effectively paying a fixed sum for all the future rents that one will be paying, plus the freedom to transform the house and the burden to upkeep it that comes with it. As with all fixed price jobs, it could be higher or lower, but no one can foretell the future with any certainty. You may well priced a base case risk of a 20% price fall (so around £20k on average house price of £150k, over 20-30 years) as worthwhile against the hassle of estate agent 'check up', contract renewals, lack of freedom to paint the room pink, but not all do. It certainly sounds to me that you are speculating (for a nominal price fall) - if you can afford to and feel comfortable to, then that is totally fine - but not all feel comfortable doing so. Personally, I'm not speculating on the price of a house, because if the price doesn't come to what I'll call value, I'll never buy. You could say i am speculating on the price of rents. For sake of argument, if the house is worth 50k but priced at 100k, and the interest on 50k pays the rent, then it makes sense for me to keep the surplus £50k as cash for food etc. Each to their own though. Edited August 5, 2013 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 If they can't buy then obviously there is no choice. If they can but choose not to then it is their decisions based on their circumstances. If they are staying out for the sole reason for expecting the price to fall - then they are speculating - and if they can afford to speculate, then it is totally fine by me. Buying is effectively paying a fixed sum for all the future rents that one will be paying, plus the freedom to transform the house and the burden to upkeep it that comes with it. As with all fixed price jobs, it could be higher or lower, but no one can foretell the future with any certainty. You may well priced a base case risk of a 20% price fall (so around £20k on average house price of £150k, over 20-30 years) as worthwhile against the hassle of estate agent 'check up', contract renewals, lack of freedom to paint the room pink, but not all do. It certainly sounds to me that you are speculating (for a nominal price fall) - if you can afford to and feel comfortable to, then that is totally fine - but not all feel comfortable doing so. That is real buying, paying cash you mean? And even in that situation, if you pay too much (buying now for example) you could be paying more out than you would have in rent? As most sheeple "buy" i.e they rent the money from the bank over a long period of time, allowing themselves to be vulnerable to rising interest rates, but tell others that they "own", they are not cancelling out future rent, just paying it to the bank rather than the Landlord? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 That is real buying, paying cash you mean? And even in that situation, if you pay too much (buying now for example) you could be paying more out than you would have in rent? As most sheeple "buy" i.e they rent the money from the bank[/b] over a long period of time, allowing themselves to be vulnerable to rising interest rates, but tell others that they "own", they are not cancelling out future rent, just paying it to the bank rather than the Landlord? It's hard work getting it across - isn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) I don't think there are many on this board who could easily afford to buy for cash and have money left over, but who would rather have the money in the bank. Its quite extreme even for HPC'ers. There's lots of big hitting savers here, holding their nerve, content whilst renting. Saw a poll once on wealth, and I believe it, and my insight from reading discussion in many other threads. Some saving a lot with renting still cheaper than mortgage. Not that I've ever be swayed by that very weak argument to buy "monthly mortgage repayments cheaper than monthly rent." I only have savings on deposit towards buying, and will wait for value in the housing market. There is no 'middle' position for me. Just want a small 3-bed house, even a terrace, but they're £200K-£300K in so many of my target areas. You either go full in, or remain out. I've only got 1-shot at it. Hoho Brucie boy. I was waiting for you to pop up. I'm still a bear on house prices even though I've bought recently. I'm mainly in it for rent avoidance and can accept a bit of capital loss. Its hard to forget that you're renting as you have a dirty great direct debit in your bank account compared to a car loan sized direct debit if you bought and had a decent deposit. This is where being an HPCer for a very long time has helped. If you're a Johny come lately then there's a good chance that renting is by far the best way. Edited August 5, 2013 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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