How Would You Fix The Uk?----Merged Threads

[John51]

Its simple. Scrap all planning laws for 5 years. There aqre enough cash piles held by businesses to finance a huge building boom. The country has slack in the industry and it doesn't lead to imports growth.

We'd lose a lot of 'heritage'.

Good idea for ugly/depressed areas though.

[Lone_Twin]

We'd lose a lot of 'heritage'.

Good idea for ugly/depressed areas though.

All we'd lose are some expensive "views" that a number of privileged boomers and bankers have built their retirement plans on. Screw heritage its just a green wellington on the neck of the poor and the young.

[pig]

All (residential) housing equity confiscated and mortgage debts wiped out.

Redistributed as a one dwelling licence and pension.

100% tax on value in excess of rebuild cost for subsequent transactions.

Fuk da consequences.

[sammysnake]

Firstly, I'd invest weapons...you know, the kind of stuff we sell to "friendly governments"

Round up the politicians crime, high treason. Liquidate all banks, crime, high treason. Install a military government

Utilise said weaponry, so that Britain will never again get screwed by the plague that has destroyed society, greed.

[LJAR]

Firstly, I'd invest weapons...you know, the kind of stuff we sell to "friendly governments"

Round up the politicians crime, high treason. Liquidate all banks, crime, high treason. Install a military government

Utilise said weaponry, so that Britain will never again get screwed by the plague that has destroyed society, greed.

you clearly plan to alter the population from human beings then?

[goldbug9999]

Outlaw the use of real estate as loan security. The logic behind this being to make lending to businesses comparatively much more attractive.

Impose a 24 hour delay on all trade orders via all central exchanges, all pending orders would be publicly viewable.

Annual tax of 10% on the value of any residential property not owned by permanent UK resident.

All business able to claim a 10% corporation tax credit on any money payed as salary to UK permanent resident employees e.g. they employ someone for 50K they get a 5k tax credit against net profit. Kind of an inverse employers NI. Same would apply to those self employed.

Abolish all benefits and replace with Citizens income with higher rate for the disabled as certified by their GP.

Abolish VAT except for imported goods and services, flat rate tax of 30% for all individuals and businesses on any income above the level of the citizens dividend.

[wherebee]

Outlaw the use of real estate as loan security. The logic behind this being to make lending to businesses comparatively much more attractive.

Impose a 24 hour delay on all trade orders via all central exchanges, all pending orders would be publicly viewable.

Annual tax of 10% on the value of any residential property not owned by permanent UK resident.

All business able to claim a 10% corporation tax credit on any money payed as salary to UK permanent resident employees e.g. they employ someone for 50K they get a 5k tax credit against net profit. Kind of an inverse employers NI. Same would apply to those self employed.

Abolish all benefits and replace with Citizens income with higher rate for the disabled as certified by their GP.

Abolish VAT except for imported goods and services, flat rate tax of 30% for all individuals and businesses on any income above the level of the citizens dividend.

Bit in bold unenforceable. Means no non individual landlords/owners of any residential buildings (i.e. University halls, council blocks etc).

[jammo]

Sorry if already posted, don't fancy reading the 8 pages, but to fix the UK what is needed is for a restructuring of all the finances, not just tinkering around the edges. Take the total income as it is, perhaps with 10% taken off to give the taxpayer a break. Take all the existing expenditures and reduce proportionally until the expenditure = the income (-10% to make the taxpayers happier). It's a basic economics principle which all people have to do on an individual basis anyway, so is fairly intrinsic. You put your own personal budget income and expenditure into a spreadsheet, yes? Factor in unexpected bills such as for the car by having a budget underspend until you have a modest saving. If you need to buy something big like a new highspeed railway, you save up for it gradually by being prudent (not Brown's definition) and not spending more than you have. UK fixes itself then.

[Traktion]

Sorry if already posted, don't fancy reading the 8 pages, but to fix the UK what is needed is for a restructuring of all the finances, not just tinkering around the edges. Take the total income as it is, perhaps with 10% taken off to give the taxpayer a break. Take all the existing expenditures and reduce proportionally until the expenditure = the income (-10% to make the taxpayers happier). It's a basic economics principle which all people have to do on an individual basis anyway, so is fairly intrinsic. You put your own personal budget income and expenditure into a spreadsheet, yes? Factor in unexpected bills such as for the car by having a budget underspend until you have a modest saving. If you need to buy something big like a new highspeed railway, you save up for it gradually by being prudent (not Brown's definition) and not spending more than you have. UK fixes itself then.

Suggesting this or that which people should be forced to do/not do is tinkering around the edges.

What is needed, is a wholesale rethink on why violence is used to take stuff from people. Until people stop thinking about how best to steal from and threaten others, no good will come.

[fluffy666]

Sorry if already posted, don't fancy reading the 8 pages, but to fix the UK what is needed is for a restructuring of all the finances, not just tinkering around the edges. Take the total income as it is, perhaps with 10% taken off to give the taxpayer a break. Take all the existing expenditures and reduce proportionally until the expenditure = the income (-10% to make the taxpayers happier). It's a basic economics principle which all people have to do on an individual basis anyway, so is fairly intrinsic. You put your own personal budget income and expenditure into a spreadsheet, yes? Factor in unexpected bills such as for the car by having a budget underspend until you have a modest saving. If you need to buy something big like a new highspeed railway, you save up for it gradually by being prudent (not Brown's definition) and not spending more than you have. UK fixes itself then.

Slight problem.

As a household, by and large my earnings are independent of my expenditure. If I cut spending by £1000 a year, then I have a spare £1000 at the end of the year (in theory, anyway).

However this does not apply to the government. If he government fires someone [at a time of high unemployment] then they may save a proportion of that person's salary (the after-tax bit), but they effectively add to the benefits bill. So the £30k a year you thought you were saving turns into £10k.

Except that that £10k is takes out of consumer spending, targeted towards VAT-attracting discretionary spending. Multiply by enough people and you start shedding jobs in the private sector due to lack of demand, further hitting your tax revenues and increasing your benefits bill. And as GDP overall shrinks, your debt-to-GDP ratio climbs.

So treating government finances like household finances is not only wrong but extremely dangerous. The government should first look to obtain full employment (even at the cost of significant inflation) before cutting spending. It should also seek to minimize the cost of essentials (housing, energy, water, food) since this allows for lower benefit requirements.

[sleepwello'nights]

I saw Al Murray last night, "The Only Way is Epic" tour. He's got some ideas on how to fix the UK.

They may not work, but an enjoyable show.

[Damik]

So treating government finances like household finances is not only wrong but extremely dangerous. The government should first look to obtain full employment (even at the cost of significant inflation) before cutting spending.

So based on your "personal" theory with 2.5 million people currently unemployed we should just give all of them public jobs and pay them at least £25k pa so they do not need to receive any benefits.

First of all this is not going to work and it will only end up like in Zimbabwe (inflation and money printing), Argentina (default) or Soviet style socialism (public sector is the economy).

Second of all the UK has been trying your medicine from 2006 - the UK deficit was always 5% to 7% higher than the economy growth to pay for the public sector - which is still about 50% of the economy. And again it does not work.

Austerity is not a choice - austerity is an outcome when you run out of your money.

[the shaping machine]

As a household, by and large my earnings are independent of my expenditure. If I cut spending by £1000 a year, then I have a spare £1000 at the end of the year (in theory, anyway).

If the government were a household it would be sending 10% more than its income, and have done this for enough years that interest payments were a big chuck of spending.

However this does not apply to the government. If he government fires someone [at a time of high unemployment] then they may save a proportion of that person's salary (the after-tax bit), but they effectively add to the benefits bill. So the £30k a year you thought you were saving turns into £10k.

Unless that person gets a new job n the private sector, or starts their own business (neither option would occur to a statist).

The government should first look to obtain full employment (even at the cost of significant inflation) before cutting spending.

Presumably by money printing.

It should also seek to minimize the cost of essentials (housing, energy, water, food) since this allows for lower benefit requirements.

But money printing increases the cost of essentials, particularly those that have to be imported. This doesn't sound like it is a workable plan.

Edited May 26, 2013 by the shaping machine

[fluffy666]

So based on your "personal" theory with 2.5 million people currently unemployed we should just give all of them public jobs and pay them at least £25k pa so they do not need to receive any benefits.

Interestingly, the 'raw' cost of that (~£60 billion/y) is less than the current cost of working age benefits! By the time you've accounted for these guys paying tax, claiming fewer benefits and spending money into the economy, the cost would be hitting margin-of-error levels.

First of all this is not going to work and it will only end up like in Zimbabwe (inflation and money printing), Argentina (default) or Soviet style socialism (public sector is the economy).

Feel free to explain why. Simply saying 'isn't isn't isn't' when someone challenges your assumptions with numbers dosen't wash.

[fluffy666]

If the government were a household it would be sending 10% more than its income, and have done this for enough years that interest payments were a big chuck of spending.

But the government is not a household.

Hell, my 'household' has a debt/income ratio of about 250% and interest payments of about 8% of income..

Unless that person gets a new job n the private sector, or starts their own business (neither option would occur to a statist).

You missed the 'At a time of high unemployment' bit.

If unemployment is low then indeed you'd want to shift people from the public payroll to private, and you'd typically do this by making sure that public sector wages were generally lower.

Presumably by money printing. But money printing increases the cost of essentials, particularly those that have to be imported. This doesn't sound like it is a workable plan.

I'd point out that 'Austerity' dosen't shrink the deficit, so money printing or borrowing is going to happen anyway. In any case, as above - employing people is relatively cheap, deficit-wise, just as sacking people does little to shrink the deficit. Denying this is basically denying maths for political reasons. And the *consequences* - having large numbers of people doing nothing economically, and becoming used to this - is a disaster.

[Authoritarian]

1) Scrap all productivity taxes

2) Implement a land value tax that is equal to the rental income of unimproved land

3) Withdraw from the EU

4) Scrap the smoking/hunting bans

5) Reform the BBC

6) Deport all illegals

7) Consider the deportation of immigrants with criminal convictions

8) End foreign aid

9) Privatise healthcare.

10) Scrap all public sector non-jobs.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Authoritarian

[fluffy666]

1) Scrap all productivity taxes

.. such as??

2) Implement a land value tax that is equal to the rental income of unimproved land

Fair enough.

3) Withdraw from the EU

... and alienate our major trading partner whilst not actually saving much cash.

4) Scrap the smoking/hunting bans

Of course. Not sure that this would fix the UK much..

5) Reform the BBC

'Cause Fox News is less biased by reality.

6) Deport all illegals

7) Consider the deportation of immigrants with criminal convictions

We already do.

8) End foreign aid

That'll save a few billion.

9) Privatise healthcare.

Yay. Get people to hand over a fortune to insurance companies that then find every possible reason to avoid paying. End up providing public healthcare anyway through Casualty anyway, or have ambulances leaving people with bad credit scores to die in the street. If you are lucky it'll only end up costing twice as much.

10) Scrap all public sector non-jobs.

Of course.

So what you want to do is, basically, attack poor people and immigrants whilst avoiding the hard questions, and hand over the NHS to those corps who have made the US system so insane. I suppose if your definition of 'Fix the UK' is similar to 'Take your dog to the vet to get it fixed' then, yes..

[Authoritarian]

.. such as??

Income tax, VAT, national insurance and various duties etc etc, basically the inflationary taxes that make it more difficult for consumers to get their hands on what they want.

... and alienate our major trading partner whilst not actually saving much cash.

We're already aliented within the EU. The Eurocrats hate us because Farage berates them on a monthly basis and Cameron's promises of reform aren't winning us any friends either. If we can't trade with the EU without first entering into a political union (which is crazy when you think about it) then lets look at the pros and cons and make a sensible decision. Personally I'd still want out.

'Cause Fox News is less biased by reality.

But News Corporation don't sponge off the taxpayer unlike the BBC. There's nothing wrong with biased news as long as nobody is being forced to subsidise it.

We already do.

No we don't.

That'll save a few billion.

Good.

Yay. Get people to hand over a fortune to insurance companies that then find every possible reason to avoid paying. End up providing public healthcare anyway through Casualty anyway, or have ambulances leaving people with bad credit scores to die in the street. If you are lucky it'll only end up costing twice as much.

Yet another person who doesn't understand the difference between a proper free market and a crony capitalist monopoly. If your logic was correct then why aren't people starving on the streets due to our evil, profit chasing supermarket oligopoly? Because there's enough competition to keep the major players on their toes. As long as the market remained competitive with low barriers to entry it would offer levels of service that the NHS can only dream of for a fraction of the cost.

So what you want to do is, basically, attack poor people and immigrants whilst avoiding the hard questions, and hand over the NHS to those corps who have made the US system so insane. I suppose if your definition of 'Fix the UK' is similar to 'Take your dog to the vet to get it fixed' then, yes..

What I want to do is save this country from the leftist snake-oil salesmen who assured us that the state had the answers to all our prayers. More immigration, more debt and more public sector nannying won't solve the very real problems this country faces, unless we're prepared to cut the fat and put an end to the insanity that is mass immigration I don't see thsi country recovering for a very long time.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Authoritarian

[BalancedBear]

So treating government finances like household finances is not only wrong but extremely dangerous. The government should first look to obtain full employment (even at the cost of significant inflation) before cutting spending. It should also seek to minimize the cost of essentials (housing, energy, water, food) since this allows for lower benefit requirements.

There are many people not willing to work, able to work or both. There are also people who choose not to work because benefits can be overly generous.

There will therefore never be full employment.

The government should only provide services that will not best run any other way. Otherwise it should but out and let people live their lives how they see fit. Trying to control the entire economy usually always results in a country running out of money.

[24gray24]

What a lot of waffle on this thread!

Either QE ends and the banks go bust. Everyone loses their money.

Or else, QE never ends and the currency becomes worthless. Hyperinflation.

The government cannot fix this situation.

Personally, I'd prefer option 1, because I'd rather have a functioning government and no banks, rather than banks paying out monopoly money, and no government. That way at least the government can keep everyone fed.

[Cardigan]

Stop all foreign aid and scrap DFID.

Stop all immigration for anyone who has a bank balance less than 250k.

Repatriate anyone who can't prove they came here legally.

Leave the EU.

Opt out of the Human Rights Act.

Stop all forms of free or subsidised legal aid.

Stop benefits for anyone unemployed more than 6 months

Scrap motability.

Reinstate the 'work house'.

Introduce a public works programme with compulsory employment, on minimum wage, for the long term unemplyed.

Scrap housing allowance benfits.

Tighten up definition of disability for disability benefits.

Compulsory armed service for anyone under 30 unemployed for more than 6 months.

Stop tax exemption benefits for charities.

Restrict free education soley to people born in the UK.

Double the University fees for all the 'soft' subjects and halve the fees for engineering, maths, science and the like

Contract out the Prison service to Russia i.e. they take all our prisoners and we pay them 'x' amount, per head, per day and make them earn the cost of their ticket home on release or they stay in Russia.

Scrap the NHS (I know that's a bit extreme but it's so far gone I don't think it can be effectively reformed).

Scrap the road fund licence and put it on the price of fuel.

Abolish BBC licence fee.

Abolish local authorities and appont civil servants to run local services.

Ahhh . . . . . . I feel so much better for that :-)

[John51]

I think the NHS can be reformed but we'd have to lose some political correctness.

As well as losing most of the suits that don't actually see patients, install a battleaxe of a Matron in each hospital and give her total control. The sort of battleaxe even the doctors are frightened of. We can't have something so important run without there being just one person to take the blame and if they take the blame then they must have the power to get things done.

Hospitals worked pretty well when it used to be like that. Now we have box ticking which equals blame shifting.

[Cardigan]

I think the NHS can be reformed .

You can tinker at the edges of the NHS machine reforming into a cost effective, efficient, value for money organisation will not be possible for a number of reasons.

1. To achieve that objective would mean massive change in terms of how they operate, their working cultural attitudes and years of re-education to change public opinion.

2. The management will not co-operate.

3. The staff will not co-operate and will resist any form of change.

4. Every other public sector union will jump on their band wagon.

4. The general public can't see passed the end of their noses and want everything anything at whatever cost.

5. The politicians see it as a vote loser.

I came back to this country 5 years ago and was shocked at the waste and set about writing letters to everyone and their dogs and got absolutely no where.

It will have to go and it will go when it and the welfare state eventually bankrupts Britain.

[pkvanderbyl]

Stop all foreign aid and scrap DFID.

Stop all immigration for anyone who has a bank balance less than 250k.

Repatriate anyone who can't prove they came here legally.

Leave the EU.

Opt out of the Human Rights Act.

Stop all forms of free or subsidised legal aid.

Stop benefits for anyone unemployed more than 6 months

Scrap motability.

Reinstate the 'work house'.

Introduce a public works programme with compulsory employment, on minimum wage, for the long term unemplyed.

Scrap housing allowance benfits.

Tighten up definition of disability for disability benefits.

Compulsory armed service for anyone under 30 unemployed for more than 6 months.

Stop tax exemption benefits for charities.

Restrict free education soley to people born in the UK.

Double the University fees for all the 'soft' subjects and halve the fees for engineering, maths, science and the like

Contract out the Prison service to Russia i.e. they take all our prisoners and we pay them 'x' amount, per head, per day and make them earn the cost of their ticket home on release or they stay in Russia.

Scrap the NHS (I know that's a bit extreme but it's so far gone I don't think it can be effectively reformed).

Scrap the road fund licence and put it on the price of fuel.

Abolish BBC licence fee.

Abolish local authorities and appont civil servants to run local services.

Ahhh . . . . . . I feel so much better for that :-)

Congratulations, your manifesto is very similar to the pressure group the Secure Nation Alliance's " Secure Nation Charter" which I reproduce below.

We are campaigning for

1. Internment without trial.

2. Abolition of parole so criminals serve the sentence they were given.

3. Three strikes and you are out.Commit three crimes and spend the rest of your life locked up.

4. All UK citizens and visitors to be added to the DNA database.

5. Compulsory ID cards now.

6. Reduction of the age of criminal responsibilty to 5.

7. Introduction of an offence of "economic terrorism" for those who use strikes to advance political causes.

8. Tighter media control of crime and terrorism reporting.

9. Conscription for UK citizens aged 18 both male and female. All to serve 3 years in HM Armed Forces without exception.

10. Introduction of curfews in designated unrest areas to control violence in our towns and cities.

11. Increase in the UK prison estate to accommodate 250,000 inmates.

12. Abolish the Human Rights Act a criminals charter.

To join our crusade follow the link below

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/securenation/

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

.

Edited June 20, 2013 by georgia o'keeffe