Getting Agitated

[StainlessSteelCat]

Try and channel your anger into something useful if possible. Change what you can - starting with yourself and immediate circumstances.

I have a few years on you but happened to move to London at the wrong time. Hence always priced out there - and eventually in many parts outside of London too.

One observation. Understand that getting better at your job will at best double your salary over the next 5-10 years (if you are lucky and move around a lot - if you stay at one employer it'll probably make no difference). That could well be the max you'll ever earn in real terms (your salary will probably flatline in your 40s, 50s and 60s). The real money lies in using your skills to set up your own business (you are young and can still keep the day job). The barriers to doing so are lower than ever - you can literally start a business on the net for almost nowt but time.

Meantime - find a better rental. Unless you are sharing with your missus, it's worth upgrading to a room of your own. You'll still enjoy relatively low costs and be able to save loads but the privacy is well worth it.

[SpectrumFX]

I decided to bite the bullet and try my hand at the AIM; oh how wrong was I.... sold my OTC shares and glad I did as they're plummeting. However I still hold the majority of the rest, and will do so until I die if I can help it. (Gold miners... unfortunately hedge funds seem to be going long on gold and short on the miners, screwing me over completely).

There's a lot I can't do whilst I'm stuck in this shared bedroom... I see your point and yes I get out and do a lot of things (and I was skint too whilst at uni!)... but I'm just furious, absolutely furious in general. EDIT - and so should you be!

I don't know about you, but buying a new guitar always cheers me up immensely

Maybe – as an investment - buy a nice Martin, or other expensive guitar (whatever floats your boat), and look after it. They're running out of the decent woods, so I don't see how you can lose out on resale value, and you get to enjoy the guitar in the meantime. I can’t think of a better investment

As to the shares, the hedge fund thing is short term, share investments are long term. I think the miners are already starting to recover (my recent losses are reversing out on some commodity based unit trusts, and I've started buying into individual miners again, as they're looking relatively cheap), I remember that you said on another thread that you were holding miners, so I just wanted to check you hadn't sold them BEFORE I said they seemed to be recovering. You seem somewhat upset, and I wouldn't want to be the one to tip you over the edge

Seriously though. Buy an expensive guitar, you’ll feel better.

Edited July 5, 2011 by SpectrumFX

[Democorruptcy]

How about we all do this at 10pm every night?

[miko]

I decided to bite the bullet and try my hand at the AIM; oh how wrong was I.... sold my OTC shares and glad I did as they're plummeting. However I still hold the majority of the rest, and will do so until I die if I can help it. (Gold miners... unfortunately hedge funds seem to be going long on gold and short on the miners, screwing me over completely).

There's a lot I can't do whilst I'm stuck in this shared bedroom... I see your point and yes I get out and do a lot of things (and I was skint too whilst at uni!)... but I'm just furious, absolutely furious in general. EDIT - and so should you be!

Reading your posts I can see where you are coming from and my advice to you would be take a step back and a deep breath , do not do anything right now , change nothing and a saying i WISH i had listened to is THINK THINK THINK.

Keep your money in cash and do not try and gamble as that is what investments are gambles.

An old saying

" there are no get rich quick schemes or free lunches "

Well sometimes there are but what I have noticed is they happen when we least expect them to and when we are not looking for them , if we try to bring them on it more often than not fk's up .

Im 48 and yes I had the good times and should have been set right up now I earn't good money , had a good redundancy a few years back . Yes I was there when the semis just outside London were £60k I bought a flat in Docklands for £50k. But along the way i made some right fkups .

As for shares when I STR'd 4 years ago i invested most of my money in a blue chip share the day I bought they dropped . I waited 9 months as they nearly reached what I paid for them and then fell back time and time again . In the end I sold them and lost just 3% of my outlay . The day I sold they rocketed if I had hung on a few weeks I would have made £12k.

In the end earning little money I bought a small place outright in Essex a small flat. With low wages I sometimes have to dip into the little bit I have left .

A few months ago I though could I make the council tax and service charge with that money in shares . The day I bought they dropped I had invested £15 k and a few days later as they kept dropping and remembering the last 9 month wait I sold them . I Lost £800 that would have paid the council tax . Yes again the day I sold they started to rise and in a few short weeks I would have made £3k plus I would not have lost the £800 . Moral of the story do not gamble money you have not got , and fkups happen when we try to hard to change our circumstances. THINK THINK THINK.

Sorry to hear your story and good luck friend.

[General Congreve]

You're not the only one. Had a close escape last week and no longer happy to be holding cash. Need to be looking elsewhere.

Doubt I'll buy a house though

Not happy with cash? Why is that?

[pl1]

What do you think of the new mates mortgages OP?

[MrFlibble]

I say go for it, let out the anger, there is plenty to be angry about.

This site has room to be angry, and to make others angry too. This poster clearly sees how things have shafted him, forcing him to live at home.

I agree, getting screwed over isn't something to be taken lightly. Working a honest job for a honest days wage should buy the average man an average house without him becoming a complete slave to the system.

Max Keiser commented a while ago about life being like a cake, when someone takes a piece someone else does without, it's a very subtle but valid conclusion.

[Milton]

******ING BALLS TO THE PEOPLE WHO SUGGEST PACIFISM.

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN. IF IT DID NOT MEAN PRISON, BURN DOWN YOUR **** MPS HOUSE.

AND THATS COMING FROM A REALLY DECENT RESPECTABLE BLOKE, WHO ONLY WANTED A JOB AND TO WORK FOR A HOUSE HE COULD AFFORD.

****** THIS COUNTRY. ****** THEM.

I HAVE JUST HAD WAY PAST ENOUGH I CANNOT EVEN ******ING TALK ABOUT IT.

TENS UPON TENS OF THOUSANDS SYSTEMATICALLY STOLE FROM US OVER LONGER THAN A DECADE.

MAJOR LIFE DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD INDEFINITELY

I HATE THESE ******* POLITICIANS AND BANKERS.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Dan1

[General Congreve]

Yes, if was born a decade earlier, I too could have bought a house for £50K. The only saving grace is to keep positive. You can see more opportunities when your mind is positive and clear. Zen and all that. Keep saving, (not necessarily all in cash, get some metal the g/s bugs will tell you) you WILL have the last laugh whilst Rome burns.

I'm reading How to Get Rich by Felix Dennis (the founder of Dennis Publishing). A great book in how to stay determined and be driven, and that eventually you will succeed (it's not just about gettting rich). Get it second hand for less than the price of a C*ster Coffee.

He's right. Don't get angry about things you cannot change, instead focus your energies on looking for existing opportunities. I did, and I am now sitting on a 44% increase in the price of gold in 2 years and a 100% increase in the price of silver.

And that is only the beginning of the story. When all this is over, me and my kind will be the subjects of some new vitriolic websites about evil gold/silver investors and how they now have a collective monopoly on property assets

Remember, fortune favours the brave.

As for Denis' book, someone bought it for me. Has no idea who he was or any real interest in reading it (you'll be surprised to hear!). Turns out it was cracking read, very honest and very insightful.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

******ING BALLS TO THE PEOPLE WHO SUGGEST PACIFISM.

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN. IF IT DID NOT MEAN PRISON, BURN DOWN YOUR **** MPS HOUSE.

AND THATS COMING FROM A REALLY DECENT RESPECTABLE BLOKE, WHO ONLY WANTED A JOB AND TO WORK FOR A HOUSE HE COULD AFFORD.

****** THIS COUNTRY. ****** THEM.

I HAVE JUST HAD WAY PAST ENOUGH I CANNOT EVEN ******ING TALK ABOUT IT.

TENS UPON TENS OF THOUSANDS SYSTEMATICALLY STOLE FROM US OVER LONGER THAN A DECADE.

MAJOR LIFE DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD INDEFINITELY

I HATE THESE ******* POLITICIANS AND BANKERS.

Marina?

[guitarman001]

Redhat Sly - amazing clip LOL!!!!

miko - thanks, and sorry to hear about your losses there....!! Make no mistake... for the medium-term I will not be ploughing any more money in. My losses near the £10k mark (ouch)... though some of these aren't realised yet.

pl1 - mate's mortgages... don't get me started.

MrFlibble and Dan1, right on. I mean, nobody gets anywhere by sitting talking or having peaceful protests.. we have a right to be angry, we've been totally shafted.

[Guest_flaps_*]

I've been waiting since 2004 GMan!! When I was considering a move up to Leeds, I had a mate up there with a decent starter home he had bought the previous year which he was putting on the market having met a lass elsewhere and wanting to move down her way. 2 bed new build, small rear garden, that kinda thing. Ideal for a young singleton about to head up to a city. He bought it for around £60K. I asked what it was going on the market at. £90K he said. I choked, coughed and spluttered. Not a million months later he sold for asking price!! Me and him sat in a pub a few weeks later and he was telling me how selling the house had allowed him to clear his debts and stuff with the £30K he 'made'. I pondered "so if I had bought this gaff off him, I would basically be saddling myself to buy the house, plus be using my future graft to pay for all the fun he had on credit cards as well. Summat aint right here and I aint picking up the tab for someone elses fun"!!

Add into that I had a degree and a decent job, yet at 3.5 times salary (not sure where I got that nugget from, but it was set in stone in my mind that it was the point at which a sensible mortgage started to become unsensible) I was nowhere near being able to afford anything even half reasonable. I had a small deposit too.

So I noticed something was very very wrong indeed back then and after that, started trying to find out why. I was especially interested in how people with hardly any deposit and a worse job than me were affording the places they were. What do you know, scratching below the surface you started to see what was happening with lending criteria etc. Not a single peerson I knew was discussing house prices in a negative manner, or concerned like me that lending was getting stupid, it was all just "buy buy buy, cant go wrong with bricks and mortar etc etc". I decided to keep out and understand more. I then discovered this site......

And here I am today. Very large deposit/possible even cash purchase. Still waiting, but still making sure I get on and enjoy life. If nothing else, I console myself with just how much flexibility a wedge in the bank gives me, with regards job tolerance, ability to move quickly around the country/abroad etc, never counting the pennies a week before pay day. All sorts of stuff. I feel much less like buying a house this year than I did last!!

Only real concern is my savings getting wiped out. Never thought about investing elsewhere as I assumed when the bubble went, it would go down very fast, so no need. Just get best return possible in the bank, stay liquid and be ready to act. Then came the big game changer. Zero interest rates and money printing. What should have already been about done and dusted has been put on permanent life support it seems. So I'll just keep renting and saving and having stress free fun. And if everything Ive worked for gets wiped out through currency collapse/hyper inflation, well, you know what they say about people who have nothing left to loose...........

Edited July 5, 2011 by Flaps

[nohpc]

There is a bubble in fiat.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

There is a bubble in fiat.

not yet, there may well be going forward, at present the bubble is fundamentally in credit as highlighted by velocity

meanwhile belief is becoming stronger and stronger that credit will be replaced with FIAT, whether that constitutes that belief as another bubble in itself is a point for discussion in itself

Edited July 5, 2011 by georgia o'keeffe

[guitarman001]

Congreve, I should have bought two years ago. I should have bought last year. But as each year passes new highs are made and I'm extremely nervous about buying at highs - knowing my luck as soon as I buy we'll see a bear run.

You know it's good to have the posts linking to newspaper articles, and those displaying housing stats and analysis... but sometimes it's good to get a simple rant/anecdotal out in the open.

Flaps, excellent post - 2004... that's a long time. 1st paragraph... paying for somebody else's fun. Agreed! Meanwhile I'm stuck at home diligently overpaying on my student loan like a sucker. (What is it you do, out of interest)?

Do you regret not buying back then?

3rd paragraph goes to show the mania and how everybody has been sucked in. Too big to fail?

4th paragraph - despite my rant, oft times I feel I would hate paying off a house (unless it cost just £60k!!!). You're right about the benefits you can have with cash in the bank and not being tied down, of course. And I love the last line.......

People are so stupid. If they just logged onto ourproperty and looked at the normal prices houses sold at not long ago, surely they would realise they're being conned.

How many more boom/bust cycles can we go through with housing before change is made!?

Edited July 5, 2011 by guitarman001

[OnionTerror]

If prices were low (although I do want them to massively drop), there would be pressure on me to settle down, yet because they are so unaffordable, there's no pressure from my family / friends to buy any where, as they understand the ludicrousness of it all (although a few bought over the last three years or so)..

[Buccaneer]

There is no doubt that housing is ridiculously overpriced and that the situation is unfair but since when was life fair? Not being able to buy an overpriced shoebox may be frustrating but it is hardly life threatening. It is not necessary to own where you live to enjoy life. Far from it. Renting is in many ways liberating. No maintenance, no IKEA, no B+Q. Move on when you like and most of the time it is cheaper. There is so much more to life than being a homeowner / debtor.

[Democorruptcy]

He's right. Don't get angry about things you cannot change, instead focus your energies on looking for existing opportunities. I did, and I am now sitting on a 44% increase in the price of gold in 2 years and a 100% increase in the price of silver.

And that is only the beginning of the story. When all this is over, me and my kind will be the subjects of some new vitriolic websites about evil gold/silver investors and how they now have a collective monopoly on property assets

Remember, fortune favours the brave.

As for Denis' book, someone bought it for me. Has no idea who he was or any real interest in reading it (you'll be surprised to hear!). Turns out it was cracking read, very honest and very insightful.

I know it's your mission in life to turn every thread into a gold thread but just for the sake of clarity if you are going to say such as "44% increase" can you put in a bracket (minus x% storage fees, minus xx% CGT, etc) because at this point you haven't actually made 44% have you?

[guitarman001]

With my luck on 'investments' I wouldn't like to rent until retirement and then keep on renting into old age hoping that my investments would come good and allow me to do so. I WOULD like to settle down somewhere at some point (though good point few posts back about high prices making us look at alternatives). Rents are still ludicrous, just like home loans in this country! You should be angry about that, too! Christ, half the people I know don't even work yet they live in s*****y pads when I'd be worikng my ass off for the same pleasure.

[General Congreve]

I still reckon I'm too late for getting into gold. Near peak now, but then that's what I said last time. Seeing as I've been getting shafted I thought I'd turn my hand to shares - lost big-time. Luckily I had half put in NS&I index-linked... and now building up that lost money again. Knowing my luck it will all be made worthless then I'll top myself.

I'm very driven - at my job and out of it (guitar, learning German, sports etc).. but I just don't see the point anymore.

Why did you go into shares? Same reason as many got into housing I guess, someone told you they always go up.

You have to do your own research and due diligence.

Unfortunately your little joke about NS&I is a little too close to the bone for my liking. When this whole house of cards collapses your sterling in NS&I will be worth a fraction of what is now.

Is all your money is NS&I? All in one basket at the mercy of Merv and his criminal gang?

Get some gold insurance, even if it's just 10% of your cash wealth. What's the worst that can happen? Suppose gold somehow crashes 50% (it won't - it now cost $1200/Oz to mine it), just suppose, with 10% of your wealth in gold you'll lose 5% of your wealth. Think of that as an insurance premium against everything suddenly turning out all right like some total f4cking miracle. Besides, the 5% loss will be more than offset by the strengthening of sterling on the back of our massively unlikely economic recovery.

Now, what if we collapse like Iceland. Sterling loses 69% of it's value on the currency markets, but gold shoots up 259% (I've used Iceland figures). You now have 31% of the original value of your total original stake left in pounds, but your gold is now worth over 35% of your original stake. You've retained 66% of your original wealth in total compared to just 31% holding cash.

Of course, the more gold you have, the bigger the protection and the bigger the potential speculative returns are, i.e. the bloke with 100% wealth in gold gets an all out 259% total gain. But just 20% in gold would protect you fully in this scenario and give you a bit of a return on top, and10% is better than nothing.

[guitarman001]

FWIW I've been considering converting 8-10% into metals but yet to happen.

What are you on about? Nobody told me shares are only ever going to go up (!?) and of course I did my research! The small man is no good against the hedgies...

[200p]

Life isn't fair. I think Lisa Simpson from the Simpsons put it nicely, "As intelligence goes up, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make lots of graphs. ..."

[General Congreve]

I decided to bite the bullet and try my hand at the AIM; oh how wrong was I.... sold my OTC shares and glad I did as they're plummeting. However I still hold the majority of the rest, and will do so until I die if I can help it. (Gold miners... unfortunately hedge funds seem to be going long on gold and short on the miners, screwing me over completely).

There's a lot I can't do whilst I'm stuck in this shared bedroom... I see your point and yes I get out and do a lot of things (and I was skint too whilst at uni!)... but I'm just furious, absolutely furious in general. EDIT - and so should you be!

Hold tight on the gold miners if you still have them. But you might want to watch this from the owner of bullionvault on miners and metal. He is obviously talking his game and has a grinding monotone voice, but he raises some excellent points. The first part will lead to the 2nd part etc.

http://www.bullionvault.com/GoldWhereToNow/Part1.html

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

People underestimate the inertia of economies.

It takes time for things to take effect. That, coupled with government policy means that the plates can be kept spinning for some time.

However, sooner or later reality has to bite. There's nothing new in where the final destination is, and the history books show it. The only thing that will be different this time is how we get there.

Edit Oh, btw :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14038529

Edited July 5, 2011 by Gigantic Purple Slug

[Democorruptcy]

And here I am today. Very large deposit/possible even cash purchase. Still waiting, but still making sure I get on and enjoy life. If nothing else, I console myself with just how much flexibility a wedge in the bank gives me, with regards job tolerance, ability to move quickly around the country/abroad etc, never counting the pennies a week before pay day. All sorts of stuff. I feel much less like buying a house this year than I did last!!

Only real concern is my savings getting wiped out. Never thought about investing elsewhere as I assumed when the bubble went, it would go down very fast, so no need. Just get best return possible in the bank, stay liquid and be ready to act. Then came the big game changer. Zero interest rates and money printing. What should have already been about done and dusted has been put on permanent life support it seems. So I'll just keep renting and saving and having stress free fun. And if everything Ive worked for gets wiped out through currency collapse/hyper inflation, well, you know what they say about people who have nothing left to loose...........

I'm in a similar position to you. The problem I have now is that we aren't really that flexible are we? It's OK saying the cash gives us the option to move abroad etc but we have already lost about 30% since 2007. That might not be 30% in the cost of buying a house abroad e.g. Spain has lower property prices but you have lost it in living costs. The nightmare scenario is sterling drops a lot further but house prices don't - then we are stuck.

Staying in sterling has turned out to be just as much a gamble as playing shares, gold etc. and we lost.