8 Million Britons Are Economically Inactive, Highest For 40 Years

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

Don't forget that "Economically Inactive" excludes:

• Children
  
• Students
  
• Pensioners
  
• Mothers caring for children
  

If you take that into account, the number look even more distrurbing.

What's the working age population... 40 million? Less mums say 30 million.

So were looking at 25% unemployment.

[Yoss]

Add in public non-jobs being binned when the coming Tory administration gets in, I'd be expecting that number to go up to 10 million.

What's the cost of that in benefits...

Still, nothing a nice war / pandemic / revolution won't sort out

News Night quoted public sector employment figure last night at 6.(Something) million.

[kzb]

Kool4caats wrote: Goverments should instead focus on the number of benefit claimants. That would be a lot harder for the Government to manipulate

No No No ! that's exactly what they've been doing, and it makes it impossible to compare how things really are, because they keep changing the rules on entitlement to benefits. What we need is exactly the reverse. We already have a clue from a thread on here a few weeks back, where it emerged there were more full-time jobs in 1974 than there were in 2006.

In 1971, anyone who walked into a job centre and said they were looking for a job was counted as unemployed. Now you must really try to get yourself counted.

[Heading South]

One of the solutions to the great depression was to move with legislation from the 60 hour work week which was common before the 30's.. to the 40 hour work week. This instantly made demand for about 50% more workers.

My personal solution is the citizen's dividend but failing that legislating a shorter work week is a pretty good second best. There clearly isn't enough good jobs to go around for everyone, especially with the really good jobs working long hours. So what about taking some of this technological progress as a 'leisure dividend', and mandating by law the 4 day - 8 hour work week. So moving to 32 hour work week from 40 we have now.

And right now employers are realizing it is a lot cheaper to pay for overtime than to hire an additional person and pay for all the benefits for a second person. So a simple law that you can't work people more than 32 hours a week.

The French went down that route a few years ago with the introduction of a 35 hour week. turned out to be a bit of a disaster apparently and they are now back pedalling on that.

As one of the other posters has pointed out, its all down to the absurd levels of red tape and bureaucracy that any prospective employer has to deal with. And some of this red tape is now being extended to employees. For example, I saw a short term temporary job advertised the other day on minimum wage and they want a CRB check which the applicant has to pay for (~£36) out of his/her own pocket.

[aa3]

Since when has employment guaranteed economic activity...you should see some of the office I have worked in. Guarantee no more than 10% of the staff were economically active.

Pretty much what I've seen in most places too. This is one reason I have been warning for nearly a decade now, if the big corps ever get serious about cost cutting.. they'll be able to cut jobs for a looooooooong time before it affects service.

[aa3]

The French went down that route a few years ago with the introduction of a 35 hour week. turned out to be a bit of a disaster apparently and they are now back pedalling on that.

As one of the other posters has pointed out, its all down to the absurd levels of red tape and bureaucracy that any prospective employer has to deal with. And some of this red tape is now being extended to employees. For example, I saw a short term temporary job advertised the other day on minimum wage and they want a CRB check which the applicant has to pay for (~£36) out of his/her own pocket.

The French economy is looking pretty good relative to ours. But I totally agree that the red tape has to go. Labour seems incapable of understanding that while each regulation viewed in isolation may seem good, the cumulative effect of them has severe negative effects. Like someone who wants to expand and hire, but the mountain of regulations and liabilities he would have to take on, makes it so he keeps his business small.

I always think our leader's plan of always more and more rules is a classic lawyers answer.. but not someone who has actually been out there in business.

[aa3]

I'm due to come off sick at the end of the month been on it since end of January. Prior to that I had worked for 29 years , 17 of them i was paying 40% tax. Plus all the other taxes that we all pay.

Have been looking for the exact kind of jobs that you describe , they are not there . Even Christmas temps at near-by Lakeside are inundated with willing people.

Maybe some on the sick are pulling a fast one , but many are not and if all that were able got up and looked for a job , where are the jobs? Answer they are not there.

I feel after all the tax I have paid over the years , I am entitled to the £96 p.w. that I get .

You are wrong to tar everyone with the same brush .

I don't blame someone for outright pretending to be sick if the alternative is £5.50 an hour for some shyster small businessman. I've argued the minimum wage should be more like £14 an hour, and if the government can't deliver that in the year 2009 with all the technology and constructive power at our disposal.. then they need to get out of the way.

[Xurbia]

I don't blame someone for outright pretending to be sick if the alternative is £5.50 an hour for some shyster small businessman. I've argued the minimum wage should be more like £14 an hour, and if the government can't deliver that in the year 2009 with all the technology and constructive power at our disposal.. then they need to get out of the way.

Britain doesn't have a workforce worth £14 an hour, unless it's changed in the few years since I left! I would also argue that private business, big and small, is what Britain needs more of. It needs less public sector workers. I see no justification for the huge salaries that doctors command either. I agree that the government should go. That will happen shortly. They have done nothing but squander the taxes for 12 long years. Why do you think the small businessman has so little to offer in wages? It's because they are screwed every which way. Have you ever tried to fire someone in Britain? Employees have too many rights. This leads to an inflexible workforce.

I don't condone people pretending to be sick. Part of the problem with the current culture is the belief in benefit entitlement and blaming everyone but themselves. It seems that there is a benefit for everything apart from working. Why do people get tax credits? It would make me feel like I was owned by the government. Perhaps that's the idea! The MPs are part of this fraud. The expenses row just shows what they think of the British voters. They want to steal from them and lie to them.

Britain is sinking very fast. Sad as it is I personally think it's a basket case. I truly am sad about this. In the last twelve years the jobs market has been destroyed by offshoring and cheap immigrant labour. You reap what you sow. You may get your £14 an hour very soon. Unfortunately that will coincide with bread costing £30 a loaf.

[winkie]

And right now employers are realizing it is a lot cheaper to pay for overtime than to hire an additional person and pay for all the benefits for a second person. So a simple law that you can't work people more than 32 hours a week.

Why pay overtime...when so many are unemployed?

A friend of mine runs a small one man business that's actually grown over the last year. But he's trying desparately to keep as a one man band because the red tape and govt intrusion involved with hiring a full time employee is to daunting. This is one of the unintended consequences of NuLabs blizzard of legislation over the last 12 years.

Why has it got to the stage when hassle and red tape deters people from creating employment?.......

[steve99]

One of the solutions to the great depression was to move with legislation from the 60 hour work week which was common before the 30's.. to the 40 hour work week. This instantly made demand for about 50% more workers.

My personal solution is the citizen's dividend but failing that legislating a shorter work week is a pretty good second best. There clearly isn't enough good jobs to go around for everyone, especially with the really good jobs working long hours. So what about taking some of this technological progress as a 'leisure dividend', and mandating by law the 4 day - 8 hour work week. So moving to 32 hour work week from 40 we have now.

And right now employers are realizing it is a lot cheaper to pay for overtime than to hire an additional person and pay for all the benefits for a second person. So a simple law that you can't work people more than 32 hours a week.

Its also cheaper to make them work 50hours a week without any extra payment at all, especialy now when new jobs are scarce. Happens every recession.

[steve99]

Incapacity benefit is one thing - that`s easy to BS your GP. In the case of DLA the checks are far more rigorous and they can - quite rightly - check up with your GP (and in my case my Community Psychiatric Nurse and Psychiatrist) to make sure that your story checks out. If not they can and will call you in for a medical too. Sorts the `bad backers` out from those who need help.

There are quite a few people milking the system (like the `disabled` karate instructor and the `breakdancing grandad`), but I would say that most people who are registered disabled have done so because they cannot manage like others. (Did you also know that my local authority will not employ people with mental health problems - even on an unpaid voluntary basis - because of their illness? If they won`t give someone an unpaid job, what chances are there in the `real` world I wonder?) :angry:

Predjudice is the overriding factor in choosing someone for a job, far more so than ability or qualification. Could be anything, age, race, time out of work, being unemployed etc etc, in fact last year I got a quizing by a potential employer over an aparrent gap in my CV sometime in 1997, seems there was a month not accounted for, yes I had been made redundant and this kunt didnt like it, never heard back of course. Doesnt pay to be honest when job hunting, most modern employers prefer a big talking liar to the traditional understated brit of old, seems to match the times.

[Three Pint Princess 2]

I don't blame someone for outright pretending to be sick if the alternative is £5.50 an hour for some shyster small businessman. I've argued the minimum wage should be more like £14 an hour, and if the government can't deliver that in the year 2009 with all the technology and constructive power at our disposal.. then they need to get out of the way.

At the moment the Government pays the shortfall and the employer gets the benefit. Instead the employer should have to pay enough so their employees can live a basic life including

somewhere to live no matter how basic. Minimum wage doesn't cover the cost of shelter and food.

[xux42]

I feel after all the tax I have paid over the years , I am entitled to the £96 p.w. that I get .

You are wrong to tar everyone with the same brush .

Yes you are.

Yes they are. Although I think you'll find most of the 'string them up' type posts on here are not entirely serious.

Your arrogant friend.

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

Predjudice is the overriding factor in choosing someone for a job, far more so than ability or qualification. Could be anything, age, race, time out of work, being unemployed etc etc, in fact last year I got a quizing by a potential employer over an aparrent gap in my CV sometime in 1997, seems there was a month not accounted for, yes I had been made redundant and this kunt didnt like it, never heard back of course. Doesnt pay to be honest when job hunting, most modern employers prefer a big talking liar to the traditional understated brit of old, seems to match the times.

A month out of your cv - yep, that`s about enough time for you to drop out of society, become an Islamic fundamentalist, go to Pakistan and train as an insurgent, get a degree in physics and source fissile material to make your own backpack nuke. No wonder a month out of your life unaccounted for had them so worried. You naughty person, you!!

(PS: always lie, lie and lie again on your cv.)

[Ethel]

At the moment the Government pays the shortfall and the employer gets the benefit. Instead the employer should have to pay enough so their employees can live a basic life including

somewhere to live no matter how basic. Minimum wage doesn't cover the cost of shelter and food.

Employers aren't Jesus, they can't feed the five thousand with seven loaves and fishes.

[Three Pint Princess 2]

Employers aren't Jesus, they can't feed the five thousand with seven loaves and fishes.

Well no, instead the money goes from the worker to the Government and back to the worker. Some money or labour goes missing along the way

but it's all part of the system, how else would the bonus be paid.

[Rare Bear]

Well no, instead the money goes from the worker to the Government and back to the worker. Some money or labour goes missing along the way

but it's all part of the system, how else would the public sector be paid.

Corrected.

[hilltop]

Surely a LA would not risk breaking the Disability Discrimination Act?

Just lost an Employment Tribunal case against Manchester Central Hospitals University Foundation NHS Trust.

Apparently, the Disability Discrimination Act does not apply to temporary (one year) jobs.

It helped of course, that they fielded a Barrister and spent some £30K on legal services, which will simply be lost in general expenditure.

The Tribunal did criticise the Trust for not doing as much as they should towards recruiting disabled people.

The Chief Executive of the Trust is supposed to be personally accountable for ensuring that equality legislation is observed.

Because the Trust won, I suspect he will still collect his bonus. His salary is higher than that paid to the Secretary of State for Health.

Andy Burnham, the Secretary of State reckons the country would save £100 billion by getting people off disability/ long term sick and into work.

Just a thought, but it may be a good idea for him to start changing things in the NHS.

[miko]

Yes you are.

Yes they are. Although I think you'll find most of the 'string them up' type posts on here are not entirely serious.

Your arrogant friend.

Thankyou Friend

[aa3]

At the moment the Government pays the shortfall and the employer gets the benefit. Instead the employer should have to pay enough so their employees can live a basic life including

somewhere to live no matter how basic. Minimum wage doesn't cover the cost of shelter and food.

Good point, we as a society are paying it anyway, plus the cost of administering all those social programs... it should be an oxymoron to say someone who is employed and needing many social programs to survive. But unfortunately its not, and that is when we need a public solution.

[aa3]

Just lost an Employment Tribunal case against Manchester Central Hospitals University Foundation NHS Trust.

Apparently, the Disability Discrimination Act does not apply to temporary (one year) jobs.

It helped of course, that they fielded a Barrister and spent some £30K on legal services, which will simply be lost in general expenditure.

The Tribunal did criticise the Trust for not doing as much as they should towards recruiting disabled people.

The Chief Executive of the Trust is supposed to be personally accountable for ensuring that equality legislation is observed.

Because the Trust won, I suspect he will still collect his bonus. His salary is higher than that paid to the Secretary of State for Health.

Andy Burnham, the Secretary of State reckons the country would save £100 billion by getting people off disability/ long term sick and into work.

Just a thought, but it may be a good idea for him to start changing things in the NHS.

If our government could actually organize they could find jobs for every disabled person up to the ability of that person.

Henry Ford read an article in the Michigan press about how the state had 20,000 disabled unemployed people who wanted to work. So he wrote the state and got the list of their names. He hired every one of them at full wages... he ordered his managers to find jobs they could do.. it had to be specific to each person. For example an amputee of one arm might still be able to do a job that mainly required the use of one hand.. those confined to wheel chair can do desk jobs and so on.

But in our era of big unions, incompetent managers, little vision etc.. and power not in the hands of one man to order something like that.. instead those disabled people sit at home at a pittance.

Ford also found that those disabled people became amongst the best employees as measured by productivity, as most were so happy to have a job and be contributing to the society.

[steve99]

Employers aren't Jesus, they can't feed the five thousand with seven loaves and fishes.

No, they sack 7000 workers then they send the jobs to India in order to feed themselves 7000 loaves and 7000 fishes

[hilltop]

If our government could actually organize they could find jobs for every disabled person up to the ability of that person.

Henry Ford read an article in the Michigan press about how the state had 20,000 disabled unemployed people who wanted to work. So he wrote the state and got the list of their names. He hired every one of them at full wages... he ordered his managers to find jobs they could do.. it had to be specific to each person. For example an amputee of one arm might still be able to do a job that mainly required the use of one hand.. those confined to wheel chair can do desk jobs and so on.

But in our era of big unions, incompetent managers, little vision etc.. and power not in the hands of one man to order something like that.. instead those disabled people sit at home at a pittance.

Ford also found that those disabled people became amongst the best employees as measured by productivity, as most were so happy to have a job and be contributing to the society.

Thank you, I did not know that - but will not forget it. All absolutely right.