Guest BoomBoomCrash Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I assume those people here who frequently post in support of a totally free market would have no objection to North Korea selling nuclear weapons to whoever wants them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pindar Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Considering they obtained their nuclear technology from Pakistan, I don't see what your point is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50%deposit Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 i want to buy nuclear missiles i'll blow up parliament then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 i want to buy nuclear missilesi'll blow up parliament then Uh oh! I'm pretty sure that post ticks the boxes over at GCHQ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I assume those people here who frequently post in support of a totally free market would have no objection to North Korea selling nuclear weapons to whoever wants them? Of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 With 6 billion people on the planet and all of the resources already in a few hands - free markets won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 With 6 billion people on the planet and all of the resources already in a few hands - free markets won't work. Well done on completely misunderstanding the term "free market." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurejon Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 i want to buy nuclear missilesi'll blow up parliament then I am afraid you are not allowed to do that as Parliament is a Grade 1 listed building, if you did blow it up you would be in serious trouble from the planning authorities and English Heritage who would ensure you rebuild it to its exact previous specifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50%deposit Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I am afraid you are not allowed to do that as Parliament is a Grade 1 listed building, if you did blow it up you would be in serious trouble from the planning authorities and English Heritage who would ensure you rebuild it to its exact previous specifications. drat i have read elsewhere that it is historically appropriate to chop off peoples heads and hang them from the Tower of London and maybe bits of parliament. i would like to reintroduce this English tradition, starting ith the traitors ousted so far in the expenses issue, along with brown and cameron and all the women MP's. off with their heads!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuya Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 i want to buy nuclear missilesi'll blow up parliament then Make sure you don't to a "Guy Fawkup". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Well done on completely misunderstanding the term "free market." Say again ! Sorry I speak English not Injish. A free market is a market in which property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged completely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. In a free market, "individuals, rather than government, make the majority of decisions regarding economic activities and transactions Now remind me - who is preventing sales of arms to N. Korea or vice versa? Of course not. Then can you expand on your statement above and clarify how a free market is to prevent sales of arms to N. Korea. Then maybe then we will see if you understand what a free market is. Or are you saying that you have no objection to the selling of arms to N. Korea. If you are then you definitely have broken toys in the attic. Edited June 1, 2009 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliveandkicking Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) I assume those people here who frequently post in support of a totally free market would have no objection to North Korea selling nuclear weapons to whoever wants them? What we need is for people to move away from todays individualistic anarchy where the cult of the individual reigns supreme and a minority can say 'deficits dont matter' or 'i want my bonus', or 'massive leverage is good for me' or 'I should be a billionaire for playing golf' or 'i should be a billionaire for being a pop star' or 'regulation of markets dont matter' towards a sense of cooperation and decency and honesty and morality where society has a place in our world where we put others before we put ourselves. We need democracy instead of this anarchic garbage propagated by out of control individuals Edited June 1, 2009 by aliveandkicking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 We need democracy instead of this anarchic garbage propagated by out of control individuals Democracy (aka two neighbours voting to rob the third) is precisely what has given you the current economic disaster. Democracy can only work when voting is limited and so is government power; mass unrestricted democracy always turns into the very war of all against all that you're complaining about, as everyone votes to steal as much as possible from their neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Democracy (aka two neighbours voting to rob the third) is precisely what has given you the current economic disaster.Democracy can only work when voting is limited and so is government power; mass unrestricted democracy always turns into the very war of all against all that you're complaining about, as everyone votes to steal as much as possible from their neighbours. Viable alternatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpo Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 north korea = free market ?! wtf have you been there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Viable alternatives? Proprietary communities seem the most plausible to me. Democracy can never be as viable as a community where the owners have a vested interest in maintaining its viability for centuries to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) There is no such thing as a "free market" There is no such thing as "socialism" There is no such thing as "capitalism" There is no such thing as "communism" There is no such thing as "fascism" There is no such thing as any political philosophy that is born of the modern age. All of these "isms" are nothing more than the tools of power. There is only what there ever was; A majority who are relatively ignorant and powerless A minority who are relatively powerful and knowledgeable The minority manipulate, at best, and directly suppress, at worst, the majority in the services of their own economic goals. In the modern world such suppression and manipulation is achieved via political ideologies. In the old world it was achieved by religion Same as it ever was....... Same as it ever was Edited June 1, 2009 by Steve Cook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepsi Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Say again ! Sorry I speak English not Injish.A free market is a market in which property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged completely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. In a free market, "individuals, rather than government, make the majority of decisions regarding economic activities and transactions Now remind me - who is preventing sales of arms to N. Korea or vice versa? Then can you expand on your statement above and clarify how a free market is to prevent sales of arms to N. Korea. Then maybe then we will see if you understand what a free market is. Or are you saying that you have no objection to the selling of arms to N. Korea. If you are then you definitely have broken toys in the attic. I'm not sure which "individual" rather than "government" actually owns, created or built nuclear weapons in the first place. I thought it was governments that actually created these weapons in the first place - so are you interpreting free market as the free market between governments? Sorry - edit to expand - Surely this is just like the government saying "You need to be protected from terrorism - and only we can protect you" - without saying that if we didn't go around invading other countries then we wouldn't be at risk from terrorism in the first place. Edited June 1, 2009 by pepsi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newy Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 So, the major problem people have with the free market and form of quiet anarchy that injun advocates is how do you deal with the violently and criminally insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!) Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 So, the major problem people have with the free market and form of quiet anarchy that injun advocates is how do you deal with the violently and criminally insane. make them serve as MP's - in a virtual world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I'm not sure which "individual" rather than "government" actually owns, created or built nuclear weapons in the first place.I thought it was governments that actually created these weapons in the first place - so are you interpreting free market as the free market between governments? Sorry - edit to expand - Surely this is just like the government saying "You need to be protected from terrorism - and only we can protect you" - without saying that if we didn't go around invading other countries then we wouldn't be at risk from terrorism in the first place. Governments have decided whether such economic activities can take place. Therefore, the market is not free - and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabHand Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Governments have decided whether such economic activities can take place. Therefore, the market is not free - and rightly so. Too many people seem to think that a free market also means there are absolutely no rules or laws whatsoever. So if l can't sell tickets to people who want to beat some children l abducted earlier and keep in a cellar, then it can't be a free market! A wilfully crass position to take in this debate. Even hardened libertarians clearly state free markets must operate within a legal framework which is reliable, transparent and consistent. The rules of the game if you will. There is no economic freedom or success in countries that have no adherence to basic law. With reference to your earlier question on viable alternatives, l don't think we are looking at a paradigm shift, simply a winding in of govt activity and taxation, returning responsibility for obtaining services back to individuals. Funnily enough l do believe in a citizens wage which everyone gets to do with as they please, including buying services like health insurance, education etc. If you want to make people responsible you give them responsibilities. Clearly the continuing infantilisation of our society is neither sustainable or desirable. The govt is corrupt because it has too much money (and thus dictatorial power) which it can spend with very little inspection or oversight. Corporations operate against the welfare and long term good of people and countries because they only have to provide a service to a single entity, the govt, to expedite billions in "sales" and not have to actually satisfy a wider customer base. The govt is buying things for you on your behalf, and in removing that choice allows economic activity that is both inefficient and undemocratic. Yes, capitalism can be democratic if each individual was allowed to choose how to spend their money. Companies offer goods and services people want and not what governments want. Of course this gap would be less stark if our govt actually operated as true democratic representatives. e.g. ID cards, bailing out failed banks, Iraq/afghan wars, EU federalism. These aren't things people want or would pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomBoomCrash Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 north korea = free market ?! wtf have you been there? Did I say that? Read the proposition again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Viable alternatives? A Republic, on the other hand, has a very different purpose and an entirely different form, or system, of government. Its purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others among the people, primarily to protect The Individual’s God-given, unalienable rights and therefore for the protection of the rights of The Minority, of all minorities, and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate. Naturally a Republic can be hijacked and subverted, as can any other form of government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Say again ! Sorry I speak English not Injish.A free market is a market in which property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged completely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. In a free market, "individuals, rather than government, make the majority of decisions regarding economic activities and transactions Now remind me - who is preventing sales of arms to N. Korea or vice versa? Some individuals who are alrewady heavily armed. Your quote has a split between peopel and governments which is patently ridiculous - there are only ever individuals. Then can you expand on your statement above and clarify how a free market is to prevent sales of arms to N. Korea. Then maybe then we will see if you understand what a free market is. Or are you saying that you have no objection to the selling of arms to N. Korea. If you are then you definitely have broken toys in the attic. I have no objection to anyone buying and selling anything, as long as they aren't selling something sentient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.