Having Trouble With Mrs Starcrossed

[Marina]

starcrossed

i'm in the same boat

we have ben renting for 3 years while i set up a business.

her indoors is desperate for a gaffe to make her own. i am sure it is in the female hormones

me- i no longer care about owning a house .

i am nearly 50- and have probably only got 20 years of living ahead of me.

then  i will get a permanent home- 6 foot under.

would rather live life to the full until i drop, rather than more years of being  a mortgage slave.

( p.s. the lovley lady still wants to own her own place)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I STRed 18 months ago. For the first 6 to 9 months it felt weird. I had not lived in rented accommodation for 25 years or more. But boy this is growing on me. No weekends in B&Q, no endless planning the next job to do. No mortgage. Money in the bank paying the rent and a lot more besides. Anything goes wrong with the house - ring the agency.

And, the best bit is the sense of .... well ... almost freedom. The knowledge that when I decide to pack up and move to France I can just do it. No house to sell, no worrying about the market. If I were trying to sell now I would be seriously worried. If I was at the other end - i.e. looking to buy my first house I would WAIT. Whichever way you look at it - you'll get that house cheaper at some point in the future. You are buying a millstone - you might as well buy at the bottom of the market.

In the meantime enjoy your leisure time - owning a house has a funny way of taking it away from you.

[Rain'ard]

Dear ST

I think you wife has a good bloke in you. You are very responsible to be able to detect and discus problems that may endanger you future happiness. As I said in my last reply in I am having the same probs as you. She has security problems about home. I have the added disadvantage that she was a homeless advisor for Brighton Council and knows all the pitfalls of renting, and ownership. If you fall on hard times the system helps renters, and there is no provision to protect you from the small print of the mortgage lender. She also tells me that any ordinary person in this country can find themselves homeless. Mental health and marriage break-up to mention only two.

IMO (Here it comes) Security is within the person, no matter of bricks and mortar. The world is your home. “You have learn to live as the Blackbird lives.”

I think Mrs Starcrossed has all the security she needs in your relationship, and I think she knows that

Best Regards

Bob.

Edited June 6, 2005 by wheresmyfoxhole

[twinkle]

WOOO....UHHH.....wha??? Um, must have just been knocked out by the stench of testosterone on this site!!!!

Seriously, not all ladies have the nesting instinct, but I think in most instances here it's all about creating a family (something I'm not ready to do yet). In fact, I'm having an uphill struggle with my other half to convince him that now is a really bad time to buy. I've tried showing him statistics, talking about the amount of money we will save but he's still got the "must get on the ladder" mentality. He's one of the "house prices never fall" brigade. (Hasn't said that since I showed him Nationwide's stats from the 80s). And as he's not allowed internet access at work I can't tell him to look at this site.

So...all you guys out there asking what to do with your women...what do I have to do to convince him that I am right??? Keep it clean puh-leeze!

[Pent Vaer]

You have my deepest sympathy. I'm still a couple of years behind you on the

'sick of renting' curve, but I can see it coming from Mrs P (we have two kids < 3).

The only advice I can offer is: start seriously looking to buy a house. Spend some

time finding the area you'd like to buy in, then go and rent in that area while

you're waiting. In any case, it's always good to have rented in the area first,

then any problems come to light, you find out who the problem neighbours are

etc. Maybe you wouldn't want to be stuck there for the next 20 years after all.

In other words, make her feel that the process of buying has started, I guess.

Pent

[Rain'ard]

Good for you Twinkle. I hope you don't think I'm a testy. I was only answering in the context of the question. If you've got the ummph to beat the system, take control

[JustYield]

As well as all the talking it through together (and listening) to establish your life goals stuff... how about going out on some house viewings NOW with Mrs SC?

Say your budget is £350K - view houses at that level as well as some that are asking £400-500K. Point out to her that if you are right, in a year or two you can have the bigger/better place for the same financial commitment as the £350K place. Assuming you do want to own when the price is right, maybe your long term goals aren't so divergent? Use the phrase "protecting my family's long term wealth" goes down well

JY

[DonnieDarker]

Hmmm.

My gf has come round to my way of thinking. This is because I systematically e-mail her the links to any negative press articles, that I see on this website.

But we are of a different generation and as renting is all we have ever known the emotional ties to owning are not instilled in us.

Clearly, Mrs S wants a house but you seem less convinced.

I would speak to her calmly about the sort of house she wants to live in, look at some examples and then speak rationally about the state of the market and the overwhelming odds that house-prices will not go up (quite the reverse) for the next 2 years.

In situations like this it is better to replace the issue of money (merely numbers on a page) with a more emotive currency. Rather than talk about the money you will save (20% of say a £500K property) sell the possibility of owning an evcen better home.

eg. "Yes that £500k house is really nice, but in 2 years time for the same money we could own THIS £600k one and wouldn't that be fabulous".

To summarise, let her play out her dream (of owning), join in with her and then talk of the possibility of the dream being bettered by waiting.

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Women, bless em. I personally suspect their wonderful nesting instinct is at least partly to blame for the bubble in that it helps stimulate the demand side of supply/demand.

I also find myself in a sticky situation vis-a-vis females and the bubble. The bint I've been chasing after for the last year has just gone and bought- 3 bed semi, desirable location in Surrey, but obviously at the cost of being seriously stretched- she's already talking about getting students in to the 2 spare bedrooms.

I tried to be as tactfully persuasive as possible- just forwarding links to graphs and articles about the bubble, and telling her now is definately not the time to buy, but that it was her decision. I even posted a thread on here asking for links to articles that might dissuade a buyer in the current climate... all to no avail, she's just completed. I didn't ask the price, but it will be silly. Will find out off nethouseprices anyway. A couple of days ago she sent me a link to one of those graphs showing what the value of the property will do over the next 5 years.. nosedive. It wouldnt have been nice to say 'I told you so' but she actually read anything I'd sent her? Once they get an idea in their heads its very difficult to shift it. Bless em.

So now I'm seriously considering whether I should just walk away- if we move closer towards a relationship I'd be walking into a financial disaster (IF I'm right about a HPC)- so its a real toughey- I lose whether there's a crash or not.

[Smurf1976]

Ms Smurf is getting a bit worried reading this and suggests that some of the girls need a bit of a wake up call...

Important things:

Health

Relationship

Friends

Money

Career

Family

Reliable car

Totally unimportant and profoundly boring things:

Power rating of car engine

Whether or not someone is looking at porn

Celebrities

Big Brother

Fashion - especially shoes and handbags

Colour - of anything

"retail therapy"

Obsession with doing what everyone else does.

Mr Smurf declares that he has read the above list and is quite happy with it and Ms Smurf.

Seriously, just overwhelm her with facts. She's old enough to remember last time so go and get a heap of old newspaper clippings if need be.

[laurejon]

A house is not only a good investment its also symbolic of a stable family.

Although I would not buy today, I can understand that most women want their own place, us lads would be happy in a shed with a fridge for the beer if we had our way.

[Rain'ard]

A  house is not only a good investment its also symbolic of a stable family.

Although I would not buy today, I can understand that most women want their own place, us lads would be happy in a shed with a fridge for the beer if we had our way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Until the head of the family dies and there is a will. (not so stable family)

[erranta]

A  house is not only a good investment its also symbolic of a stable family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Best sentence of Bo!!ocks I have read so far this week - so you have quite a few Xtra days to write more!

For your information -

Europe People "RENT"!

Steady Family Commitment!

UK = People 'think' they 'have' to "BUY"

Highest rate of DIVORCE in World/Europe!

Extricate yourself from that

[twinkle]

Mmmm, and what about the legions of peasants and serfs that populated rented cottages for hundreds and hundreds of years? If their families had been unstable our race would have died out a long time ago.

[Diddlysquat]

Here's another Girlie renter with 2 children and a husband. Persaonally, I'm happy to rent until this thing bottoms out...but I have kids schools to consider and will probably have to buy or relocate into rented by winter 2006.

Poor Mrs Starcrossed, I think if she is determined to buy again , and buying a "home" is an emotive issue....it is highly unlikely to ever compare with the financial gains made from renting.Not having your OWN home is "soul destroying" for many women......I feel Mr Starcrossed someone will have to give in?

With best interests intended

JBeau

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And here's another in the same boat, only with one child so far.

I can empathise with Mrs Starcrossed, I'm afraid it's something only women understand as so well described by JBeau. The fact is that there is a very important part of us that needs to look after our family and we only see that in our own homes. Sorry guys, you just can't rationalise

Mr Diddlysquat and I have spent hours and I mean, hours talking about this. Both of us a HPCers but I have to admit I really struggle sometimes and all too often our lengthy discussions end in tears. I'm so hoping that we'll manage something reasonable this time next year, all this talk of 2 maybe 3 years from now worries me. Hey Gravity's rainbow?

[DonnieDarker]

I'm so hoping that we'll manage something reasonable this time next year, all this talk of 2 maybe 3 years from now worries me. Hey Gravity's rainbow?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But the question is WHY does it worry you?

"there is a very important part of us that needs to look after our family and we only see that in our own homes"

Hmm. Looking after one's family is an admirable trait. But only seeing that in your home is suspect.

Who honestly thinks that their a child younger than 6 is going to give a toss about living in rented accomodation? And only when they're older is there a possibility they might get teased by other kids.

Children have little concept of money let alone home ownership vs renting.

Edited June 6, 2005 by DonnieDarker

[Yonmon]

simple solution- let her buy if she wants, using only her own cash

[Starcrossed]

Thanks DrB.

It might be politic to wait for this thread to fall down the list a few pages before I suggest that!

My only concern with what you suggest is that I have already suggested this and her response (not unreasonably) is that I tell her everything that is on here anyway!

I shall keep it up my sleeve, though...

[Bee Bear]

One thing is for sure the current situation is making us both unhappy. The risk is that it is opening up fissures in the relationship that were previously undetected. For instance, my 'happy renting forever' attitude against her 'needing to have a home not a house' plus all the differences in attitude to life this reveals

If i may add to the advice....don't worry about the differences in attitude to life...celebrate those differences and allow space to negotiate them.

Mr Bee Bear would never clean the bath if i didn't ask him to. In fact the flat could remain filty and he wouldn't care. I accept that. And he accepts that i will ask him to clean a bit and he will do it.

I hate all forms of sport. He loves it. I video his sport and he watches it while i do something in another room.

What we both love is: each other, sex with each other (sorry prob. more info that you need), scuba diving and long trips to Europe on the motorbike.

Focus on what you both love together and agree on -- there must be a lot. If you focus on what you disagree on, you can find more and more ways to diverge.

But if you keep in mind the things you both believe in, you will find a way to negotiate the rest.

[right_freds_dead]

sounds like she wants a home as compensation for poor performance or something ? i dunno.

have you tried finder her a job.? or buying her a cheesy convertable car. around the 3k mark. possibly ex-male hairdresssers MX5 ?

how about a chiwawa or a fully grown rescue cat ?

perhaps lead her to think your having an affair - this will make her shape up through fear of losing you. leave a set of dirty tights in the wash basket or a washed out old grey bra in the glovebox.

how about dripping erotic foods such as chocolate sauce, strawberrys or daddies brown sauce over her body.

a new washing machine ?

get some comedy boxer shorts with prints like "I LOVE fanny" or perhaps a tom selick hollywood theme. maybe get yourself a brazillian like charle the tramp has.

thats it - im out of ideas.

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

sounds like she wants a home as compensation for poor performance or something ? i dunno. 

have you tried finder her a job.? or buying her a cheesy convertable car. around the 3k mark. possibly ex-male hairdresssers MX5 ?

how about a chiwawa or a fully grown rescue cat ?

perhaps lead her to think your having an affair - this will make her shape up through fear of losing you. leave a set of dirty tights in the wash basket or a washed out old grey bra in the glovebox.

how about dripping erotic foods such as chocolate sauce, strawberrys or daddies brown sauce over her body.

a new washing machine ?

get some comedy boxer shorts with prints like "I LOVE fanny" or perhaps a tom selick hollywood theme. maybe get yourself a brazillian like charle the tramp has.

thats it - im out of ideas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not introduce her to new and increasingly bizarre sexual practises, ask Dunroamin if you short of fruity or sickening ideas, then she will be too worried about your state of mind to give houseprices a second thought ever ever again.

[IMupNorth]

I'll throw in my 10p's worth - suggest you encourage her a bit to start looking for a house, rather than forbidding this exercise.

After all its what you both want - a new house. So start by sitting down with her and make a list of the things you want in a new house + all the stuff you need to buy etc - work out the cost. Then get her off to the estate agents and get her doing some leg work.

All this should take a couple of months at least and you can drag your feet a bit, say you don't like this or that, but in a few months time you will have distracted her +vely and just perhaps you'll have a few more months evidence of falling prices to persuade her not to rush in.

My wife has the freedom to look for houses - but she doesn't take that opportunity. Instead she is waiting for ME to find HER a house (my opinions don't count here, as it will be HER house !)

I think this proves to me some of the unsaid, instinctive things, that happen when couples buy houses. This is an 80:20 rule but generally, women are looking for a good man, who will provide a nice home, where she can have children and they all live happily ever after.

In my case, my wife is now looking for me to provide her with a nice home - she sees it instinctively as my job to take the lead on this, by providing a short list of suitable 'nesting' sites. Then she picks one and we live happily ever after.

Also, take note of what Bee Bear says - good advice in there - also remember marriage is about compromise, sometimes total compromise !!

[Marina]

This thread touches on something very fundamental. Despite women's lib and so-called equality - it is still down to the man to provide.

So, if you create a budget showing what you have coming in, what you need to spend on everything (gas, elec, phone, insurances, car, clothes, food etc etc) and take a rational decision on what you afford mortgage repayment wise (allowing for IRs at the average of the last 25 years - about 8% I believe) - you will no doubt discover that, based on what you earn, you cannot provide your wife with the home she wants/feels she deserves etc.

i.e. you are a tosser who cannot provide for his family.

That, I imagine, is the result of the massive house price inflation over the last few years. Deep down a lot of young men will be feeling they can't cut the mustard.

It is of course rubbish. Young people have been priced out of the market by middle aged BTL investors.

It really is time for a bit of a riot. The fact you lot don't DO anything about this marks you as tossers in my book. Remember the poll tax riots? Not that long ago. They got rid of the poll tax after that. Look at China. Just stuck a tax on homes not bought to live in. Fatso could do that easily - they're in for another 4 to 5 years. One quick riot and they would have punitive taxes on 2nd homes as quick as you like.

[Mr Tickle]

Starcrossed,

Just my experience to date, sold house / home of 10 years in Feb 05 and made what can only be described as a tidy profit after buying in 1995 ...... in fact i've banked a tax free 'profit' of £211 per WEEK for the last 10 years!!!

This money has been pumped in to the top of the chain by people like yourself ..... just something to think about.

Back to topic.... I was very 'uneasy' at the thought of renting, kind of felt strange and insecure ........... but in actual fact it made me realise that home isn't bricks and mortor, far from it in fact, it where the missus is, its where my kids run to me when I get home at night, its where I sit to read stories with them, play games in the garden ....... you get the idea im sure.

Kind of a bit of an eye opener tbh, after leaving the old house behind and all those memories, we got married there, had kids there, and all the rest of it in between, but when you've shifted the last load of gear ....... it was kind of empty, a soul-less cold space .... home is where you, and yuor loved ones are at.

Even Mrs T is up for hanging on now, I've got and till mid 2006 at the mo, after showing her Risers charts yesterday and playing 'guess what happens next' she said "we'll look at this again this time next year and see how it looks, then make a decision, if its diving we'll hang on"...

As for kids mate, they love the rental house, they have bigger rooms, more room to play in general, they certainly don't feel like they're not at home, far from it in fact.

And this is from someone who also WANTS to buy, i.e ME, but the time is not yet right, I think the end of 2007 / early 2008 if we can wait that long, to get the worst of the drops out of the way

[laurejon]

There have been more immigrants coming into the UK than people who BTL.

You are looking in the wrong place as usual for your answers, or maybe the answer is something like many people you just dont want to hear.

It is a natural trait of a Man throughout centuries to provide a home for his prospective family. We might well be living in a more liberal civilisation but the grass roots facts remain within ourselves.

Man provides the house and the food, Women cares for house and children.

[Little Miss No Frills]

Thought I'd give a wife's perspective...

Having a house represents more than just a financial investment. It means the security of knowing your family is settled, that the kids can be near a decent school, knowing your community, being near friends etc etc. All this creates a *very* strong urge to buy.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't dream of buying right now. And we have had some annoying rental experiences too (the pinnacle being asked to vacate early the day after I'd given birth), but I still wouldn't trade all this for the daily worry of watching your house's value plummet and stressing about the interest rates and meeting repayments.

When I'm having a weak moment, and want to buy, I just do a bit of maths, and work out how much nicer a house I will be able to buy when the market has gone down 20-30%. This little mind trick may help others who have nesting instincts.

LMNF