Am I Being Unreasonable To Feel Seething Resentment Towards Those Who Profited From The House Price Bubble

[Greg Bowman]

Succintly put.

Even when living standards in the UK have been in decline for a generation it still will not dawn on the general population that if you want to enjoy an above average standard of living you have to be capable of working to higher than average standards - unless of course you inherit wealth or win the lottery.

Plenty of us are capable of that just not the majority. I have had the best three years of business last three as have many mates and friends

Educated robots from Asia are a threat if you believe that client skills, personal networks and sheet determination count for nothing. We didn't run the empire by being the best educated even three hundred years ago.

Most people haven't got a clue about performing year after year at an above average level. Witness the many people on here who think an average wage which is broadly similiar to what millions earnt in the 80's should provide a decent house nearly 35 years later.

[Bloo Loo]

Plenty of us are capable of that just not the majority. I have had the best three years of business last three as have many mates and friends

Educated robots from Asia are a threat if you believe that client skills, personal networks and sheet determination count for nothing. We didn't run the empire by being the best educated even three hundred years ago.

Most people haven't got a clue about performing year after year at an above average level. Witness the many people on here who think an average wage which is broadly similiar to what millions earnt in the 80's should provide a decent house nearly 35 years later.

many bankers have had the best three years ever...when they should have been on JSA.

Of course the OP should be resentful....she missed the boat that was fuelled by credit backed by nothing, the UK ship has sailed and is holed by the Iceberg of reality, yet, such was the power of the ticket sales operation that people STILL want to get aboard.

The OP probably also feels that people who have been forced to jump ship need lifejackets, lifeboats and a fresh ticket to reboard, because no-one is allowed to fail.

As for the over 50s wondering why their kids cant buy a home....its not their fault...it IS the fault of the self same kids demanding, and till recently, receiving the credit they wanted......

[campervanman]

many bankers have had the best three years ever...when they should have been on JSA.

Of course the OP should be resentful....she missed the boat that was fuelled by credit backed by nothing, the UK ship has sailed and is holed by the Iceberg of reality, yet, such was the power of the ticket sales operation that people STILL want to get aboard.

The OP probably also feels that people who have been forced to jump ship need lifejackets, lifeboats and a fresh ticket to reboard, because no-one is allowed to fail.

As for the over 50s wondering why their kids cant buy a home....its not their fault...it IS the fault of the self same kids demanding, and till recently, receiving the credit they wanted......

+1

The uncomfortable truth that many here are unable to confront is that it was many of their own generation who were engaged in borrowing too much easy money over the past 10 years that has given rise to house prices going up 3 times.

[Mr. Miyagi]

As has been stated a few times on this thread, we're a nation of stupid people.

We genuinely do only care about Smartphones, X-Factor and cheap lager.

The average home owning monkey could not understand in a million years the correlation between the young having no chance of affording a home, and the fact that their own home has appreciated massively.

They would never work out why their offspring are still living with them into their twenties and thirties, when they moved out at 18.

Mumsnetters who regard themselves as financial gurus because they were born in the right decade disgust me, and someone who thinks that they've made their fortune in property by staying up until 2am decorating makes me seethe.

Housing in the UK is a disaster zone, and I hope that the young are bright enough (which I doubt, see above) to not buy into this scam, refuse to take on mortgages, and watch the deck of cards tumble.

Exactly, they would have benefited from HPI by staying up until 2.00am flicking coffee beans at the wall.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Mr. Miyagi

[Bruce Banner]

must be ahead of the curve over there

my parents are 15 years from retirement and just yesterday mentioned off the cuff they are looking to buy an investment property and rent it out for an income when they retire

might keep begging then to hold off the decision for another 12 months maybe they will wake up by then.... scary times

You can tell you parents, from someone who is retired, that apart from the obvious that now is not the time to buy, being tied to managing a rental property in retirement could seriously restrict the enjoyment of being retired.

We like to take long holidays and phone calls from tenants and letting agents would be a pain in the neck.

[Bloo Loo]

You can tell you parents, from someone who is retired, that apart from the obvious that now is not the time to buy, being tied to managing a rental property in retirement could seriously restrict the enjoyment of being retired.

We like to take long holidays and phone calls from tenants and letting agents would be a pain in the neck.

9 times out of 10, we have a problem with the boiler, a drain or something it seems tp occur at a weekend or the day before my landlord is off on a cruise.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Mumsnetters who regard themselves as financial gurus because they were born in the right decade disgust me

About time there was a thread about Thatchers children and the 1980's

funny that, you always blame the children and never the parents

[cybernoid]

Just checked that thread again, seems to have been taken over by a nut who has gone from fractional reserve banking to conspiracy surrounding 911.

A pity, they were just starting to figure a couple of things out, now the whole thread just looks nuts.

It will take years and years for the average joe to have a clue about anything, I just can't afford to wait that long.

[campervanman]

funny that, you always blame the children and never the parents

And the reverse is never suggested here? Parents are responsible for their children up to a point but those children are responsible for themselves when it comes to things like borowing money. Deregulated finance and deregulated brains were part of the masterplan to give 'freedom to the masses'. Thatchers children just happened to be the first to be fed into the machine. Not you fault really and eventually the transition from the 1930's to the 1950's will recur hopefully without the 1940's bit.

[stormymonday_2011]

Always looking for someone who is 'completely responsible and totally to blame' is part and parcel of what is wrong with modern Britain.

People like moaning about what is wrong with society and the economy but precious few can be stirred of their a*ses to do anything about it.

With regard to the housing market I think those who stayed out of the bubble and saved their money will have their day in the next few years.

Once that happens those like the Mumnsnetters who bought in at the top and now find themselves struggling will find themselves an increasingly isolated group as happened to many who got into negative equity in the early 1990s. There will be some sympathy for the dumb but not much for the greedy who thought they were on to a sure fire winner if they levered up their debt to the maximum to buy into the housing ponzi. Their hatred and envy for people who bought house decades ago is a bizarre post fact rationalisation of history. No one who purchased a home in the 1970s could have had the faintest idea about how home buying financing was going to change over the decades. Moreover they have no more made out like bandits in housing than if they had lumped their money is stocks where there was also a boom in prices over the same decades. The only difference is that the timing of the two markets are not completely synchronous. Why do people think the housing windfalls of that period were a preplanned fraud on the present generation but the share gains over the same period were not.

http://www.lovemoney.com/news/property-and-mortgages/buying-and-selling-property/205/property-versus-shares

It is also worth noting that anyone who bought a house in the late 1970s and also entered a defined benefit pension scheme at the same time (not everyone born in that era had a final salary pension) who is retiring to day will certainly not be winning in the annuity stakes. They have not been lucky evrywhere

Edited April 15, 2012 by stormymonday_2011

[KingBingo]

Deregulated finance and deregulated brains

Utterly bolloxs!

If you had worked a day in your life in finance you would know it was the most heavily regulated industry in the country. Bloody healthcare and Nuclear power have less regulation.

Lefties always witter on like an old woman about 'deeeereegulation' its a bloody myth.

[Diver Dan]

Mumsnetters who regard themselves as financial gurus because they were born in the right decade disgust me, and someone who thinks that they've made their fortune in property by staying up until 2am decorating makes me seethe.

That's another thing that people mistakenly believe. The colour of you walls, condition of your carpet, state of kitchen and bathroom etc. etc. have a minuscule effect on the actual value of your house. The things that give a house value are almost entirely external and beyond the control of the silly bint staying up till the wee small hours frantically daubing her walls.

[Norbert]

Most people haven't got a clue about performing year after year at an above average level. Witness the many people on here who think an average wage which is broadly similiar to what millions earnt in the 80's should provide a decent house nearly 35 years later.

It should probably provide an average house in an average area as it did 35 years ago in 1977.

The thing is, housing is not international. It should be a function of local wages and nothing to do with being "exceptional" in a global market. The heating, lighting and fixtures might be another matter however.

[Democorruptcy]

Utterly bolloxs!

If you had worked a day in your life in finance you would know it was the most heavily regulated industry in the country. Bloody healthcare and Nuclear power have less regulation.

Lefties always witter on like an old woman about 'deeeereegulation' its a bloody myth.

That's funny.

How do you account for NR 125% mortgages from wholesale market funding?

[Buccaneer]

It should probably provide an average house in an average area as it did 35 years ago in 1977.

The thing is, housing is not international. It should be a function of local wages and nothing to do with being "exceptional" in a global market. The heating, lighting and fixtures might be another matter however.

The average wage has never bought the average house.

[bmf]

It is also worth noting that anyone who bought a house in the late 1970s and also entered a defined benefit pension scheme at the same time (not everyone born in that era had a final salary pension) who is retiring to day will certainly not be winning in the annuity stakes. They have not been lucky evrywhere

Are defined benefit pensions effected by annuities? I think you mean defined contribution.

[wonderpup]

...and she has gambled on a 100% mortgage ....give us all a break ....

No- she didn't. She took the advice of an 'expert' IFA which was backed up by another 'expert' in the lending of money who gave her that 100% Mortgage.

When you go out for a meal do you routinely demand to inspect the kitchen and interrogate the staff to ensure it's a safe place to eat? No- you assume that the place meets certain standards which are backed up by regulations to prevent you being poisoned.

After all the banks would have no reason to issue a 100% mortgage if it was a dangerous thing to do- would they? How was this woman to know that the banksters had long since abandoned any sane risk assessment in their hunger to feed their securitisation scams and their regulators had overdosed on neo liberal propaganda about the magic of self regulation.?

She was told by experts that what she was doing was rational and carried a low risk, or no risk- and was entitled to act on that advice. The fact that she was led astray by just about everyone involved cannot be laid at her door.

Think of it this way: If you go into hospital for an operation which is bungled- and it turns out that the entire staff knew the surgeon involved was a risk, that those supposed to be checking his work failed to do so and the people who had pointed out the risk were ignored when they tried to warn about it- are you to blame for this systemic failure- or are they?

[Bloo Loo]

funny that, you always blame the children and never the parents

BOMD.....certainly destroys the house buying opportunity for everyone too.

We are in a "must have it now" society.....and my parents were told to invest every penny in housing...and if you could have in the 60's. then it worked....this attitude continues right through to today.

[Bloo Loo]

No- she didn't. She took the advice of an 'expert' IFA which was backed up by another 'expert' in the lending of money who gave her that 100% Mortgage.

When you go out for a meal do you routinely demand to inspect the kitchen and interrogate the staff to ensure it's a safe place to eat? No- you assume that the place meets certain standards which are backed up by regulations to prevent you being poisoned.

After all the banks would have no reason to issue a 100% mortgage if it was a dangerous thing to do- would they? How was this woman to know that the banksters had long since abandoned any sane risk assessment in their hunger to feed their securitisation scams and their regulators had overdosed on neo liberal propaganda about the magic of self regulation.?

She was told by experts that what she was doing was rational and carried a low risk, or no risk- and was entitled to act on that advice. The fact that she was led astray by just about everyone involved cannot be laid at her door.

Think of it this way: If you go into hospital for an operation which is bungled- and it turns out that the entire staff knew the surgeon involved was a risk, that those supposed to be checking his work failed to do so and the people who had pointed out the risk were ignored when they tried to warn about it- are you to blame for this systemic failure- or are they?

+1...and most also beleive all they hear MSM news readers too.

banking and MSM tyranny...where the truth is what they care to tell you.

[Norbert]

The average wage has never bought the average house.

It probably depends what you mean by an "average house". I.e. one that costs the same as the mean of all house prices, or one that is typically "average" in terms of accomodation.

What I see now is that the mean wage in many areas won't even buy a one bedroom flat. This was not the case in 1977.

[Norbert]

Utterly bolloxs!

If you had worked a day in your life in finance you would know it was the most heavily regulated industry in the country. Bloody healthcare and Nuclear power have less regulation.

Lefties always witter on like an old woman about 'deeeereegulation' its a bloody myth.

I think it's about waking up to the fact that the regulators have an interst in building their own empire and will mercilessly scrutinise a particular part of a bank's operations, but willingly turn a blind eye to another. It's political. High levels of regulation in one area do not necessarily ensure that high levels of stupidity and recklessness do not continue in others.

[ska_mna]

No- she didn't. She took the advice of an 'expert' IFA which was backed up by another 'expert' in the lending of money who gave her that 100% Mortgage.

When you go out for a meal do you routinely demand to inspect the kitchen and interrogate the staff to ensure it's a safe place to eat? No- you assume that the place meets certain standards which are backed up by regulations to prevent you being poisoned.

After all the banks would have no reason to issue a 100% mortgage if it was a dangerous thing to do- would they? How was this woman to know that the banksters had long since abandoned any sane risk assessment in their hunger to feed their securitisation scams and their regulators had overdosed on neo liberal propaganda about the magic of self regulation.?

She was told by experts that what she was doing was rational and carried a low risk, or no risk- and was entitled to act on that advice. The fact that she was led astray by just about everyone involved cannot be laid at her door.

Think of it this way: If you go into hospital for an operation which is bungled- and it turns out that the entire staff knew the surgeon involved was a risk, that those supposed to be checking his work failed to do so and the people who had pointed out the risk were ignored when they tried to warn about it- are you to blame for this systemic failure- or are they?

+1

As I've said before, I'm all in favour of being responsible for one's own actions, but when, in an advanced western economy, it comes to such a basic thing as housing it really should just "take care of itself" , allowing the workers to get on with their lives being economically productive. If your government can't be trusted to provide a stable housing environment for its populace, it is not fit for any purpose, not even as a bum-wiping aid. One shouldn't need to spend weeks and weeks of your life on internet forums educating yourself on the modern monetary system before starting a family.

[Venger]

No- she didn't. She took the advice of an 'expert' IFA which was backed up by another 'expert' in the lending of money who gave her that 100% Mortgage.

An IFA and

the unshakeable faith of our families and society that property ownership was the way to go, and the increasing pressure at the time to get on the ladder or miss out, that was the decision we made.

She can complain to her parents.

And it's happened before. Where was all the blame towards bankers allowing bigger mortgages towards the 1990s crash? Those who bought at the peak deserved what they got that time, and this time as prices totally go out of control.

She's likely bought a small starter home box at £200,000 which is beyond my comprehension for any sort of value, but not for her and the culture she immersed herself in, without doing research or having independent thought. She's still winning too, having acquired the home infront of others who weren't willing to pay as much or borrow as much.

[campervanman]

Utterly bolloxs!

If you had worked a day in your life in finance you would know it was the most heavily regulated industry in the country. Bloody healthcare and Nuclear power have less regulation.

Lefties always witter on like an old woman about 'deeeereegulation' its a bloody myth.

Funny thing is I don't recall liar loans, 125% mortgages and more than 3x incomes being lent before the 1980's. Heavily regulated my ar5e.

[KingBingo]

Heavily regulated my ar5e.

What do you do for a living out of interest?

I've worked in finance for over 15 years, and you have no clue what your talking about.