Am I Being Unreasonable To Feel Seething Resentment Towards Those Who Profited From The House Price Bubble

[nixy]

Tulipmania

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_17/b3678084.htm

Ah yes, but that only explains where the money went to, rather than from.

Did it come from existing savings?....or borrow it from future savers.....who or what ever they are....

[scrappycocco]

Interesting reading at Mumsnet.

Am I being unreasonable to feel seething resentment towards those who profited from the house price bubble and hot anger at the Governments who allowed it to happen?

Click here to read the Mumsnet thread

on mumsnet don't they all vote for labour, the government that allowed it to happen....

[campervanman]

Well, yes. On the basis that everything looks viable in the midst of a credit bubble being blown for several decades.

Have you thought whether the viability of many things has been misread and it is only the 'bust' revealing what is actually behind the curtain?

Well for one decade anyhow, your decade not mine

Edited April 18, 2012 by campervanman

[tomandlu]

Well for one decade anyhow, your decade not mine

Four decades at the very least imho. The last decade is just when the bill arrived.

[long time lurking]

I'm YellowWellies. I read here daily but don't post a lot as you guys can be pretty misogynistic. But yes this is what a preggers HPCer looks like. Now who was Redshields spouting that conspiracy theory stuff trying to derail the thread? Hamish? Sibley?

I think you have just given the mums net gang the picture to go with the jigsaw

There seems to be a lot off them that knew something was wrong but could not figure out what it was

Keep up the good work ,it looks like you have gained a bit of a following too and for every poster there`s probably 100`s if not 1000`s just reading

[campervanman]

Four decades at the very least imho. The last decade is just when the bill arrived.

How are you defining a credit bubble?

[juvenal]

Ah yes, but that only explains where the money went to, rather than from.

Did it come from existing savings?....or borrow it from future savers.....who or what ever they are....

Didn't the first person to ever draw State Pension draw it for about forty years - having paid absolutely f*** all in - because it hadn't existed when she was working?

[campervanman]

Didn't the first person to ever draw State Pension draw it for about forty years - having paid absolutely f*** all in - because it hadn't existed when she was working?

It's unlikely unless she was a he and lived to be 110.

[tomandlu]

How are you defining a credit bubble?

I'm not - I'm defining the start of the growing distortions that led to it. We'd have been better off without a credit bubble, but only because it would at least have made the imbalances more apparent earlier.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

When the old age pension scheme was introduced nobody had paid anything in. The first recipients were paid out from the contributions of future recipients. Does that make it a Ponzi?

Did I say it was?

But now you mention it, what would happen if there weren't new "members" to pick up the tab? Not that I believe the intention was to deliberately do this but you have to ask.

[campervanman]

I'm not - I'm defining the start of the growing distortions that led to it. We'd have been better off without a credit bubble, but only because it would at least have made the imbalances more apparent earlier.

Ok what are the 'growing distortions' you refer to, manafacturing decline,service economy,selling off national assets to fund the economy? As you are probably aware I am of the opinion than the real problem with credit/debt has evolved exponentially and is a relatively recent phenomenon. Credit growth and indebtidness has undoubtedly grown over the past 40 years but the real big bang only really started around 10-15 years ago with the invention of methods of creating illusionary money supporting illusionary asset values that are now having to be paid for by real money. What has happened in the past 10-15 years has IMHO been far more damaging than what was allowed to happen in the 25-30 years preceeding it.

Edited April 19, 2012 by campervanman

[campervanman]

Did I say it was?

No you didn't but by your inference any scheme introduced in the same way the OAP was is a ponzi and as such is therefore a bad thing.

[tomandlu]

Ok what are the 'growing distortions' you refer to. As you are probably aware I am of the opinion than the major credit bubble/distortions have occurred exponentially and are a relatively recent phenomenon. Credit growth and indebtidness has undoubtedly grown over the past 40 years but the real big bang only really started around 10-15 years ago with the invention of methods of creating illusionary money supporting illusionary asset values that are now having to be paid for by real money.

To put it (too) simply, the slow decay of our manufacturing base, with the concomitant social and economic damage inflicted on society. Oil 'saved' us for a while, but, like the credit bubble, we might have been better off without it... (or, better, have used the revenue to develop our manufacturing infrastructure). Of course, you could go further back, and say that we never adjusted to our post-colonial status, but I guess you've got to draw the line somewhere...

[campervanman]

To put it (too) simply, the slow decay of our manufacturing base, with the concomitant social and economic damage inflicted on society. Oil 'saved' us for a while, but, like the credit bubble, we might have been better off without it... (or, better, have used the revenue to develop our manufacturing infrastructure). Of course, you could go further back, and say that we never adjusted to our post-colonial status, but I guess you've got to draw the line somewhere...

Indeed. It's where some draw that line that causes some like me a problem.

[tomandlu]

Indeed. It's where some draw that line that causes some like me a problem.

I draw the line where a clear trend in a specific constituent part starts, as opposed to a junction where we could have gone one way but chose another.

Or, to put it another way, I draw the line when the question changes from "when did trend X start?" to "why did trend X start?".

I'll concede that the '70s muddy the waters a bit, since that was the unions shooting themselves in the foot, rather than the hostility/indifference that followed later.

[campervanman]

I draw the line where a clear trend in a specific constituent part starts, as opposed to a junction where we could have gone one way but chose another.

Or, to put it another way, I draw the line when the question changes from "when did trend X start?" to "why did trend X start?".

I'll concede that the '70s muddy the waters a bit, since that was the unions shooting themselves in the foot, rather than the hostility/indifference that followed later.

Isn't that a bit like someone who commits a crime blaming someone else for the reasons why he/she committed the crime though. For example I could not excuse Blair/Brown for the past 15 years just because they inherited a country with a mindset dominated by the free marketeers and Murdoch media. Back in 97 I thought ok, it's a means to an end, the end being reversing the trends of the previous 20 years by conning Mr and Mrs Sunreader that nothing was really changing at all when all the time subtle changes would be made that they wouldn't notice. Turned out that the end was more of the same only worse.

Edited April 19, 2012 by campervanman

[tomandlu]

Isn't that a bit like someone who commits a crime blaming someone else for the reasons why he/she committed the crime though. For example I could not excuse Blair/Brown for the past 15 years just because they inherited a country with a mindset dominated by the free marketeers and Murdoch media. Back in 97 I thought ok, it's a means to an end, the end being reversing the trends of the previous 20 years by conning Mr and Mrs Sunreader that nothing was really changing at all when all the time subtle changes would be made that they wouldn't notice. Turned out that the end was more of the same only worse.

I'm not quite sure what point you're making here. The only people I really blame are the politicians over the last 40 years for being stupid and the bankers for being clever. Are you saying I should only blame those on whose watch the whole thing blew up? Or have you mistaken me for a boomer-basher?

Aside from that, the only point I'm trying to make is that we are at the end-stage of trend that started in the '70s, not the '00s (manufacturing decline).

[Spoony]

Mumsnetters are the ones who lapped up property porn and nagged their "DH"'s to buy at all costs, so they've got f*ck all to complain about now.

Whats a DH? In fact what do all these terms mean and why do they use them?

[FloraPoste]

Whats a DH? In fact what do all these terms mean and why do they use them?

Husband. It's short for darling husband.

Not originated by Mumsnet, there were some acronyms that were common in chatrooms when Mumsnet was set up 12 years or so ago. Generally people don't like the 'd' ones very much because they are so twee but it's useful because it indicates it's a member of your family. They are still used out of habit, and because that's what everyone else uses so everyone knows what you mean.

Mumsnet acronyms.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Husband. It's short for darling husband.

Not originated by Mumsnet, there were some acronyms that were common in chatrooms when Mumsnet was set up 12 years or so ago. Generally people don't like the 'd' ones very much because they are so twee but it's useful because it indicates it's a member of your family. They are still used out of habit, and because that's what everyone else uses so everyone knows what you mean.

Mumsnet acronyms.

I always thought it was dickhead

[Spoony]

Husband. It's short for darling husband.

Not originated by Mumsnet, there were some acronyms that were common in chatrooms when Mumsnet was set up 12 years or so ago. Generally people don't like the 'd' ones very much because they are so twee but it's useful because it indicates it's a member of your family. They are still used out of habit, and because that's what everyone else uses so everyone knows what you mean.

Mumsnet acronyms.

Thanks <HUGS>