The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

[narco]

15 hours ago, lombardo said:

Please explain to me how Nano will deal with double spend attacks and spam attacks.

Yes, delegated proof of stake takes care of the double spends and some minor proof of work to prevent spam. 

I would strongly recommend testing out. It's pretty impressive to see it in action, especially when you're used to long confirmation times and transaction fees with other coins. 

[markyh]

24 minutes ago, narco said:

Yes, delegated proof of stake takes care of the double spends and some minor proof of work to prevent spam. 

I would strongly recommend testing out. It's pretty impressive to see it in action, especially when you're used to long confirmation times and transaction fees with other coins. 

But won’t it be called something else after the next big hack due to flaws in its security? 

[narco]

16 minutes ago, markyh said:

But won’t it be called something else after the next big hack due to flaws in its security? 

We'll find out soon enough, but we've not seen any evidence of problems with the coin itself so far. The BitGrail shambles was either a fraud or a bug on the exchange. 

I don't see Nano as a competitor to Bitcoin as it is more of a "digital gold" coin which has been battle tested in terms of security. 

Nano is more for general day to day or micro payments coin currently.

If Nano gets a fiat gateway, it will by default become the primary coin for all inter-exchange transfers. I can imagine it could even replace BTC as the primary Alt trading coin. 

My big wildcard play on Nano is if the lightning network fails, you could see a stampede out of traditional blockchain coins and Nano could do very well. 

There's not really much interest in it and so far as the market hasn't yet figured it out. This is a good thing. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by narco

[lombardo]

6 hours ago, narco said:

Yes, delegated proof of stake takes care of the double spends and some minor proof of work to prevent spam. 

I would strongly recommend testing out. It's pretty impressive to see it in action, especially when you're used to long confirmation times and transaction fees with other coins. 

I actually own Nano. Have had it for a while.

But I am not convinced. The POW is simply not good enough to stop a spam attack. It's too easy to spam. WIthout fees it is really easy to spam the network. How much will it cost?

Is Nano DPOS? I didn't realise it could be classified as such. Are conflicts not resolved after they occur? Unlike normal DPOS where the nodes create the blockchain? With Nano the sending and receiving nodes have their own chains and then if there is a conflict, other chosen nodes can vote for a solution. Also don't voting nodes store full blockchains? Thus scalability is an issue without incentivised nodes.

Personally I think DPOS (like EOS) is very centralised.

I really am not convinced that DAG will beat Blockchain tech. I don't even think Nano is DAG. It's closer to Blockchain since nodes store chains of transactions. IOTA is DAG and it is broken.

[narco]

3 hours ago, lombardo said:

I actually own Nano. Have had it for a while.

But I am not convinced. The POW is simply not good enough to stop a spam attack. It's too easy to spam. WIthout fees it is really easy to spam the network. How much will it cost?

There's already no reason for anyone to even bother trying, but if it proves to be an issue the devs can escalate or tier the POW difficulty. 

The centralisation is bit of a concern but it's very early days. The developers are expecting that vendors and service providers will eventually run their own nodes in exchange for the cost savings of zero transactions. They need better incentives for people to run nodes. 

Nano will definitely be attacked over the coming years. The major Blockchain  players, communities and organised mining pools are not going to give up dominance without a fight.

[evetsm]

Cyclical  super hubs. Cheaper way to enter Lightning Network. Instead of you sharing a multi Sig bitcoin transaction on chain with one other, you share the transaction with many and form a cyclical hub. Specialist companies or websitemay be created to form these

https://zmnscpxj.github.io/offchain/cyclicsuperhubs.html

[narco]

1 hour ago, evetsm said:

Cyclical  super hubs. Cheaper way to enter Lightning Network. Instead of you sharing a multi Sig bitcoin transaction on chain with one other, you share the transaction with many and form a cyclical hub. Specialist companies or websitemay be created to form these

https://zmnscpxj.github.io/offchain/cyclicsuperhubs.html

I guess any solution to work around Bitcoin's sluggish Blockchain is a good thing. 

[goldbug9999]

15 hours ago, narco said:

If Nano gets a fiat gateway, it will by default become the primary coin for all inter-exchange transfers. I can imagine it could even replace BTC as the primary Alt trading coin. 

Comedy gold.

[goldbug9999]

4 hours ago, narco said:

The centralisation is bit of a concern but it's very early days. 

Straight out of the IOTA play book.

Quote

The developers are expecting that vendors and service providers will eventually run their own nodes in exchange for the cost savings of zero transactions. 

Delusional, there is barely any economically significant saving to be made even vs BTC let alone LTC or lighning.

Quote

They need better incentives for people to run nodes. 

No shit sherlock.

 

[narco]

2 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

Comedy gold.

If you could buy a coin and transfer it instantly and without any cost to another exchange then why would anyone choose a plodder like Bitcoin? 

If you're lucky you might only have to suffer a 30 minute wait or an overnight stop in the case of December. 

So if Nano becomes the exchange medium of transfer, then it's only a matter of time before it becomes the primary trading coin against other Alts. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by narco

[markyh]

2 hours ago, narco said:

If you could buy a coin and transfer it instantly and without any cost to another exchange then why would anyone choose a plodder like Bitcoin? 

If you're lucky you might only have to suffer a 30 minute wait or an overnight stop in the case of December. 

So if Nano becomes the exchange medium of transfer, then it's only a matter of time before it becomes the primary trading coin against other Alts. 

I take it you are to young to have dealings with big lumps of FIAT to move them from one county to another via the current banking system, the fees involved and the time? I had to deal with this in 2007 getting married in South Africa and sending over £15k in SAR to pay for everything. From memory at least a week from making the decision to send the money.

Trust me, compared to this, even sending  £15k in Bitcoin in Mid December would have been very cheap and very quick.

[leonardratso]

trouble is its only worth 10K when it gets there. hahaha.

[goldbug9999]

3 hours ago, narco said:

If you could buy a coin and transfer it instantly and without any cost to another exchange then why would anyone choose a plodder like Bitcoin? 

If someone is transferring 10's of K or 100's of K or even millions they are primarily concerned about it arriving at the other end unscathed, not about saving a few minutes or 10p on the transaction.

Quote

if Nano becomes the exchange medium of transfer 

Not a hope in hell of that ever happening.  Even if they go away from btc it will most likely be LTC (or god forbid xrp) and thats assuming they dont just use lightning and set up zero cost channels between each other.

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by goldbug9999

[narco]

17 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

If someone is transferring 10's of K or 100's of K or even millions they are primarily concerned about it arriving at the other end unscathed, not about saving a few minutes or 10p on the transaction.

That's not the same as buying a few coins to speculate on exchanges. People want to see their money moved quickly and without 1.00 coin arriving as 0.9912457 or whatever .. The fees seem to change like the wind. 

It doesn't matter if it's BTC, LTC, ETH, BCH, they're all basically the same. Slow, clunky with fees.

Please supply evidence of how zero fees will work with Bitcoin on the LN network.  

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by narco

[evetsm]

Btrash headed for one hell of a hiding. Pure manipulated scam coin. Chapter and verse:

1.Control the circulating supply
2.Create “artificial price floors” to absorb sell pressure to make price look more attractive to outsiders
3.Use profits from other endeavors like BTC trading (ex — move into Tether, tx Tether to altcoin exchanges trading BCH, open BTC shorts, sell off BTC spot, hope market helps the selloff, rebuy BTC spot lower, take profits from all trades & pump into BCH).
4.Prior to the BCH November hard fork, miners would utilize the EDA (Emergency Difficult Adjustment), pile network hashrate into mining BCH causing BTC mining instability and some opportunities trading the resulting price movements. (This doesn’t exist anymore now with the 144 block DAA moving average which not only made BCH hashrate more stable, but actually made BTC hashrate more stable as well.)
5.Use additional revenue from mining including huge markup on hardware sales, delaying shipments, “burning in” new miners, high BTC fees, etc.
6.Sweetheart early investor deals into newly launched altcoins (the best example being Tron) & using those profits to support the BCH project.
7.Try and birth BCH adoption / use cases to drive buy pressure.

https://medium.com/@btcWolves/bch-heading-towards-the-abyss-f1b2b9ec41f1

 

[markyh]

7 minutes ago, narco said:

That's not the same as buying a few coins to speculate on exchanges. People want to see their money moved quickly and without 1.00 coin arriving as 0.9912457 or whatever .. The fees seem to change like the wind. 

 

The only reason I can see to need that speed is to join in on pump n dump scams where to skim you need to be in, buying, then selling soon after to skim the scam.

Perfect, Nano's third name, Scamcoin.

[narco]

5 minutes ago, markyh said:

The only reason I can see to need that speed is to join in on pump n dump scams where to skim you need to be in, buying, then selling soon after to skim the scam.

Perfect, Nano's third name, Scamcoin.

You can also see better price discovery across exchanges as it would open up the ability to arbitrage. 

At the end of the day the market will decide what it wants to use for exchange transfers, so we'll see if I'm right over the next few years. 

For whatever purposes Bitcoin is good for, this isn't one of them. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by narco

[Errol]

Establishment cunning plan to try and attack bitcoin?

 

Child abuse imagery found within bitcoin's blockchain

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abuse-imagery-bitcoin-blockchain-illegal-content

[markyh]

1 hour ago, Errol said:

Establishment cunning plan to try and attack bitcoin?

 

Child abuse imagery found within bitcoin's blockchain

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abuse-imagery-bitcoin-blockchain-illegal-content

Here we go. There were rumours of a massive FUD campaign coming to get the price down to $4000 or lower. Could this be the start? Roll up some IMF and central bank banning stories, another change in mind by South Korea and Japan to ban etc etc.

[lombardo]

2 hours ago, markyh said:

The only reason I can see to need that speed is to join in on pump n dump scams where to skim you need to be in, buying, then selling soon after to skim the scam.

Perfect, Nano's third name, Scamcoin.

I have doubts about Nano's tech, but there is no evidence to call it a scam coin. That is a serious allegation that requires strong evidence.

Nano deserves credit for innovation at the very least.

Why does the cryptoverse have people that treat their coin like a football team? Hooligans calling other coins scam and btrash? Many of these people tend to be Bitcoin or Monero maximalists.

[lombardo]

11 hours ago, narco said:

There's already no reason for anyone to even bother trying, but if it proves to be an issue the devs can escalate or tier the POW difficulty. 

The centralisation is bit of a concern but it's very early days. The developers are expecting that vendors and service providers will eventually run their own nodes in exchange for the cost savings of zero transactions. They need better incentives for people to run nodes. 

Nano will definitely be attacked over the coming years. The major Blockchain  players, communities and organised mining pools are not going to give up dominance without a fight.

Good luck to the Nano team. I must admit that my questions are genuine because I can't easily find the information I am looking for. Nano may turn out to be great or it may not, only time will tell.

Maybe their model of not incentivising noes will work if big businesses and holders use their own money to create robust nodes? Time will tell.

[Will!]

2 hours ago, lombardo said:

Why does the cryptoverse have people that treat their coin like a football team?

More than that, coins are religions that might* make the faithful millionaires.

*might is also might not.

[goldbug9999]

3 hours ago, lombardo said:

Good luck to the Nano team.

I don't have anything against nano in particular, its just that its one coin in the very crowded cheap/free/fast space and nothing really stands out about it that indicates it me that its any more likely to succeed than a dozen other such coins.

Edited March 20, 2018 by goldbug9999

[narco]

There's a fork of Nano on the way which is being used as testnet with lowered POW. Seems like a bit of a joke coin (like Dogecoin) but looks like Nano holders will get some airdropped when it's launched. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/bananocoin/

As for Nano against other coins, I don't see anything that directly competes in the pure payment coin space yet.

IOTA is offering fast and free transactions but it is trying to be more of an all singing all dancing, swiss army knife of crypto. I'm not interested based on all the crappy wallet  sync and private key issues. Also this one is heavily centralised right now. 

[narco]

Interesting to see Nadeem Walayat from marketoracle making price calls on Bitcoin. 

I remember back in the early HPC days he nailed some epic predictions on the UK house prices blip and recovery, the stock market rally from 2009 and some nice gold calls back in the day. All his old posts are still on there. 

He's currently forecasting a drop to at least $5k and ultimately $2k as a long term buy area. Also scrolled down and noticed he called the 2013 top in Bitcoin in advance. 

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article61839.html

The bloody website looks exactly the same as it did in 2006/2007 when i first read it. Really needs updating!