GreenDevil Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Whayts the point of gold backed? Bitcoin is doing perfectly well with out gold backing just with a limited supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoughtCriminal Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I find Goldmoney an interesting concept but the fees aren't exactly low....... What are the costs of GoldMoney? Premium/mark-up for buying and selling gold Mark-up / mark-down of about 0.07% for each purchase and sale Commission for purchasing gold Commissions for the purchase of gold: 0.5% Commission for selling gold Commissions for the sale of gold: 0.5% Storage and insurance Storage with LOOMIS or Malca Amit: 0.01% (monthly), 0.12% (annually) Storage with other storage companies: 0.015% (monthly), 0.18% (annually) Minimum fee of 0.001 grams per month for gold (ca. 5 cents (US)) Gold storage fees are applied per vault, i.e., if you hold gold in different vaults, you have to pay the storage fee several times. Bank wire fee For the transfer of funds from GoldMoney to the client’s bank account, a bank wire fee is charged. The fee varies by currency. The fee amounts to US$ 20 or a similar amount in other currencies. Withdrawal fee for delivery of gold Information only on request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Jim Rickards on Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards Gold down 1% on sale of 50 tons of "paper" on COMEX. FYI, last time anyone quickly sourced 50 tons of physical was NATO invasion of Libya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibuc Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 OK, so this whole 'paper gold' thing is the bit that I fail to understand, and I'd appreciate if somebody clarified it to me. PMs prices are believed to be manipulated by ETFs which have no backing in gold and are settled with fiat. This is supposed to drive the price down, as real demand for gold is met with artificial 'paper' supply from ETFs. That's what I'm struggling to wrap my head around. If the buyer is willing to accept fiat instead of physical gold, then I don't think there was any demand for physical in the first place. There was demand for an ETF itself, and that demand was met with adequate supply. Buyers who are in the market for physical will accept nothing less, so no amount of 'paper' gold will drive the price down for them, as it's a different product. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HovelinHove Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 2017-6-25 at 9:14 AM, GreenDevil said: Whayts the point of gold backed? Bitcoin is doing perfectly well with out gold backing just with a limited supply. A limited supply of what exactly? Bitcoin relies 100% in confidence or belief that it is a real currency, if that confidence were to evaporate, then the Emperor would be naked. The point of having backing linked to a relatively rare commodity, albeit one without any real purpose other than being a store of wealth, is that people can produce the gold if they need to and this can be traded for its residual value. People's understanding of money has become so perverted by the post Gold-standard era that they cannot see the fundamental potential flaw lying at the heart of the whole Bitcoin concept...it essentially has no intrinsic value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Central Bank Intervention Slams Paper Gold This isn’t some trader’s “fat finger” accidentally overloading the sell button and pressing “sell.” This is unadulterated BIS/ECB/BoE/Fed sponsored market intervention: At 4:01 EST, a paper gold nuclear bomb was detonated in the Comex Globex computer system. The graph is just the August “front month” paper gold contract on the Comex. In that contract 1.49 million ozs of paper gold were dumped into the Comex electronic trading system. Zerohedge is attributing 1.88 million ozs. That would include the selling in all of the paper gold contract months. Here’s the reason that today was selected by the BIS et al to attack gold in the paper market in an effort to scare the crap out of the market: The largest buyers of physical gold in the world right now, India + Turkey, were closed for the observance of a religious holiday. And Shanghai closed for the day 31 minutes earlier. 4:00 a.m. EST is one of the slowest, lowest volume trading periods during any 24 hour period. Why would a seller of a large number of contracts sell at that time of day, when the largest buyers of what is being sold are not in the market at the time of the sale?http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/central-bank-intervention-slams-paper-gold/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giggler000 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On 26/06/2017 at 6:58 PM, HovelinHove said: A limited supply of what exactly? Bitcoin relies 100% in confidence or belief that it is a real currency, if that confidence were to evaporate, then the Emperor would be naked. The point of having backing linked to a relatively rare commodity, albeit one without any real purpose other than being a store of wealth, is that people can produce the gold if they need to and this can be traded for its residual value. People's understanding of money has become so perverted by the post Gold-standard era that they cannot see the fundamental potential flaw lying at the heart of the whole Bitcoin concept...it essentially has no intrinsic value. When granny trades bitcon, buys milk and bread + tea bags with it at the local store, jobs done its currency (IMHO). Until then it's new, its thin air with lots of *anker types pushing it after initial take up by online millennials with PI' miners and other geeks who understand numbers. While any one mayB limited there are unlimited new creations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies, don't like BTC, I'm fully in zCash, not heard it yet? you will do... and then theirs gold. OK I admit I'm bitter for not joining when it was $16 just so I could buy some place to live but f am i going to joining now. I know I won't regret that even if it hits 100K b cos the next change of wind it could be $200 again and someone just lost his shirt, it aint gonna b me. like someone buying into yellow at 1700 and to me since I wouldn't have even consider PM's b 4 all this 2008 fin crisis stuff, 1250 is expensive so to is 16$ Ag given before all this crap it was barely hitting 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoughtCriminal Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 What the hell is Ag? Silver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giggler000 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, ThoughtCriminal said: What the hell is Ag? Silver? That is so cool, I'm gonna create a new blockchain coin called Ag, perhaps it'll give some more weight b 4 pump and dump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giggler000 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On 25/06/2017 at 2:14 PM, GreenDevil said: Whayts the point of gold backed? Bitcoin is doing perfectly well with out gold backing just with a limited supply. Limited supply is over hyped. There's 7.347B people on this tiny rock circa 2015 (https://www.google.co.uk/#q=population+of+earth). Since we know of no other rock like ours in existance, its rare, now most of these 7.347B people shit every day, but still its rare and by all offerings limited to just our rock (prove me otherwise), see where this is going? OK, ok, forget the poo stuff, just the rock, only 1off, on sale today, how much is it worth? the way those 7.347B treat it, you'd think it grows on trees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On 26/06/2017 at 6:55 PM, kibuc said: OK, so this whole 'paper gold' thing is the bit that I fail to understand, and I'd appreciate if somebody clarified it to me. PMs prices are believed to be manipulated by ETFs which have no backing in gold and are settled with fiat. ETF's can be gold backed. There is a variety of ETF's in the gold corner. Paper gold is a generic squeak from the gold bugs. Who are best avoided. What I advise you to do, is look into financial instruments known as "Contracts For Difference", they aren't complicated to understand......unless you're 30 grammes short of an ounce, like the gold bugs are..._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On 2017-6-26 at 5:13 PM, Errol said: Jim Rickards on Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards Gold down 1% on sale of 50 tons of "paper" on COMEX. FYI, last time anyone quickly sourced 50 tons of physical was NATO invasion of Libya. Would one person alone have the ability to sell 50 tonnes of gold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 On 26/06/2017 at 5:13 PM, Errol said: The deceit behind your post is defenceless. Presented as some outrageous attempt to game the market, and nothing else, it is also plausible that a fat finger was to blame. If it was a game play....so what, it's what these people do all the time. Rickards chart does not show what happened next.....gold went back to it's equilibrium price at the spike down, in less than 24hours. It is now at the same price. Just goes to show that gold bugs can be fooled all the time, unlike the gold market..._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoughtCriminal Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Has anyone here ever paid much attention to the gold/silver ratio? It's relatively high at the minute (around 75) so I'm considering having a small trade on it. I'd be grateful if any of the old hands on here could share any of their knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, ThoughtCriminal said: Has anyone here ever paid much attention to the gold/silver ratio?......I'd be grateful if any of the old hands on here could share any of their knowledge. It's not as fascinating as studying tea leaves, but more interesting than pondering ones navel. Old Digger views it as a pointless exercise..._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I've always considered it potentially dangerous. Silver is a far riskier and volatile metal than gold. Be careful... 11 minutes ago, ThoughtCriminal said: Has anyone here ever paid much attention to the gold/silver ratio? It's relatively high at the minute (around 75) so I'm considering having a small trade on it. I'd be grateful if any of the old hands on here could share any of their knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, DiggerUK said: The deceit behind your post is defenceless. Presented as some outrageous attempt to game the market, and nothing else, it is also plausible that a fat finger was to blame. If it was a game play....so what, it's what these people do all the time. Rickards chart does not show what happened next.....gold went back to it's equilibrium price at the spike down, in less than 24hours. It is now at the same price. Just goes to show that gold bugs can be fooled all the time, unlike the gold market..._ Why don't you tweet your views to Jim Rickards (who posted the stuff on Twitter to begin with)? It might be interesting to see what he counters with. Edited June 28, 2017 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Errol said: Why don't you tweet your views to Jim Rickards (who posted the stuff on Twitter to begin with)? It might be interesting to see what he counters with. I'm not interested in Rickards reasons for posting. Just yours. You posting it here becomes nothing more than nonsense information, p.s., sunset is 2122 today. I'm sure that information will help us all develop a gold strategy..._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) I post it here just so people can see it (plenty might have missed it). No other reason. It is a gold thread, so stuff about gold goes here. Mr. Rickards has plenty of interesting views and has written 3+ books on financial systems, gold and other associated matters. Therefore his view is interesting, whether or not one agrees with it (and I personally don't agree with everything he says). Do I need any other reason to post or is there something I'm missing? Edited June 28, 2017 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Paper gold are futures contracts that originally started as a contract to deliver 100 Oz of gold 3 months in the future. A short seller who owns the gold sells the future to get a premium. If the contract expires at a higher price than the price of gold he delivers the metal. However in recent times the comex has settled the gold future in fiat with a difference between the current price of the future and the spot price. So it's not really a gold future at all. The gold bugs belive that allowing this allows the market to be manipulated. Draw your own conclusions. Edited June 28, 2017 by GreenDevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoughtCriminal Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 2017-6-28 at 10:15 AM, warpig said: I've always considered it potentially dangerous. Silver is a far riskier and volatile metal than gold. Be careful... Thanks for the input. I'm just looking to keep it very small and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick73 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 All I see is gold is about to make another journey towards the South Pole ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoughtCriminal Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 24 minutes ago, maverick73 said: All I see is gold is about to make another journey towards the South Pole ? Can you expand on why? All I ever see on these charts I'd that someone has randomly drawn a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noallegiance Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Take segments of gold price history at any long or short period over the last 30 years and you can come up with any trend you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick73 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 51 minutes ago, ThoughtCriminal said: Can you expand on why? All I ever see on these charts I'd that someone has randomly drawn a line. I don't base my decisions on news, only what I see, Gold has been on bearish trajectory since 2011. It's current climb is based on Volatility index, US dollar and demand from the futures index. Have a look at those charts and formulate you own opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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