Negative Mental Attitude

[Guest wrongmove]

He's always very blunt with what hes saying, I personally dont think he means anything by it, like someone with tourettes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offence taken here ! I know zz is a mainstay of HPC, but insulting people for things they never even said just doesn't do him justice.

[theChuz]

No offence taken here ! I know zz is a mainstay of HPC, but insulting people for things they never even said just doesn't do him justice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its not what you say its what you dont say, you just remember that.

lol had to say that, the other day i flicked a friend on the forehead and said that,then just walked off.

Its more funny in my head than on here

Edited May 7, 2005 by theChuz

[Guest wrongmove]

Its more funny in my head than on here 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again we are in agreement !

[right_freds_dead]

I too wonder what the point is.  Effectively since laboiur has come to power I have worked for nothing.  I am much worse off now than I was in 97  I can affors less, with a substantially bigger deposit.

I kind of like your idea

I have become very despondent.

Just feel like I am going through the motions,

I feel like I could end up in a funny farm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

me too. wages for the masses dont seem to have risen more than 5% since 97, yet housing has risen 300% +. at first i thought my calculator was broken, but i checked it 3 times and had it verified by a vicar.

so you may as well take it easy as your not on a career path anymore. more of a career treadmill which goes nowhere. get settled on the housing benefit, have loads of kids and work a bit for cash here and there. life quality is the new paradigimy (whatever that means)

cant be worse that working a stressful job from 8am-7pm for progressive tax poverty and remaining childless and lifeless anding up in terminal care for the unloved and childless. cold and alone in a filthy high backed plastic covered chair mumbling to yourself about a nice piece of cod for dinner and how you wished you had lived while you could.

i dont mean go be a hippy, but a pastoral existence based on natural life challenges rather than fruitess exertion for clever war pigs is a better option when born into this amazing world.

drink home brew.

make cash on ebay.

claim a 4 bed house and no poll tax

claim 4 kids (inc benefit)

walk more.

fix more.

live more.

[messychopper]

I think it's obvious why you feel that going to work is pointless; because the fruits of your labour are not coming to you (you are not benefiting from your work) but the reward from that work is simply flowing into your landlord's pocket (for doing absolutely fvck-all). I'd be pretty £&%$ing hacked off in that circumstance too. You are not reaping the rewards of your own efforts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are assuming he is not making a loss !

[messychopper]

I'm sure that Bliar would be deeply upset if you did that 

Anywhere in particular ? The grass is always greener I know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's such a tosser and anyway he hasn't missed me...

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Take home pay is motivating, no question. If you want happy, enthusiastic staff then paying them more will help no end. It would help for me anyway.

Does everyone get really grumpy in a recession? I wasn't concerned with such things last time around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, recessions can be brilliant. The early ninties saw a varied music scene, free festivals, free parties, community-based youth cultures like rave.

Although it bred a lot of E-crazed wasters, most seemed to survive. Besides, is being a McJob wage-slave adn living in Rachman bedsits any worse than hitching from festival to festival?

The various alt-lifestyles were doing so well at one point, that the state had to finally crack down with a Criminal Justice Act to force everyone back into line.

I'm looking foward to seeing what the kids come up with this time around, when life suddenly stops revolving around barcardi breezers, big-logo fashion, and bluetooth gadgets.

[dpg50000]

In hindsight, the amount of times I went over and above my duty to 'the company' and in real terms, got f@@k all out of it, makes me feel quite sick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn right! In the last two years at my place, I have had a couple of promotions but no financial reward. The responsibilities and workload kept increasing and I kept getting nothing (save for a below cost of living rise).

Anyway, I asked for a payrise and my maanger (plus the 3!! managers above him) agreed and signed it off. However, the directors didn't approve it. Basically it was a case of "He's not handed his notice in, so why should we pay him more?".

Since then, I have started to work at a more normal, less hectic pace, and stopped giving the company 5-10 free hours each week working late. If I'm busy with something, and then something else needs to be done as a "priority" I no longer work twice as fast to get both things done. My life is so much better, and I am so much less stressed.

Obviously the company are now being hit by this though. My project has a backlog of work now, and I'm in no hurry to finish it, because if I did the company would just expect more of the same. I'll work hard, but no longer excessively hard.

This is affecting the project (and eventually probably the bottom line) but the beancounters only see people's salary as being low, and smugly think they've managed to hold down costs again....

[Guest rigsby II]

make cash on ebay.

Deleted

Edited May 8, 2005 by rigsby II

[Casual Observer]

Damn right! In the last two years at my place, I have had a couple of promotions but no financial reward. The responsibilities and workload kept increasing and I kept getting nothing (save for a below cost of living rise).

Anyway, I asked for a payrise and my maanger (plus the 3!! managers above him) agreed and signed it off. However, the directors didn't approve it. Basically it was a case of "He's not handed his notice in, so why should we pay him more?".

Since then, I have started to work at a more normal, less hectic pace, and stopped giving the company 5-10 free hours each week working late. If I'm busy with something, and then something else needs to be done as a "priority" I no longer work twice as fast to get both things done. My life is so much better, and I am so much less stressed.

Obviously the company are now being hit by this though. My project has a backlog of work now, and I'm in no hurry to finish it, because if I did the company would just expect more of the same. I'll work hard, but no longer excessively hard.

This is affecting the project (and eventually probably the bottom line) but the beancounters only see people's salary as being low, and smugly think they've managed to hold down costs again....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just be careful they dont sack you for "poor performance". Don't get me wrong - I sympathise with your situation but unfortunately it's an employers' market in many jobs at the moment, and if they think they can get someone to work as hard as you used to, and for the same or less than they pay you, then they might.

Good luck, but be careful. I've seen many people adopt the "work to rule" approach - it rarely works, in my experience.

Edited May 8, 2005 by Casual Observer

[zzg113]

Could you please clarify this statement ? Are you suggesting the West will invade a pair of nuclear powers with a combined population of about 2.5B !

The West is a (multiple) nuclear power as well you know. I've no doubt that they could do it (or even the US on its own) but no, that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was referring to trade wars, rather than military wars, such as the 27.5% blanket import tax on Chinese goods currently going through the American Congress (a protectionist measure):

http://www.conservativemonitor.com/finance03/47.shtml

I should point out that the yuan is not unique in being pegged to the dollar; other Asian countries (Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, etc) also maintain the external value of their currencies at a certain level against the dollar so as to keep their exports competitive with China's exports.

[Unexpected]

Damn right! In the last two years at my place, I have had a couple of promotions but no financial reward. The responsibilities and workload kept increasing and I kept getting nothing (save for a below cost of living rise).

Anyway, I asked for a payrise and my maanger (plus the 3!! managers above him) agreed and signed it off. However, the directors didn't approve it. Basically it was a case of "He's not handed his notice in, so why should we pay him more?".

Since then, I have started to work at a more normal, less hectic pace, and stopped giving the company 5-10 free hours each week working late. If I'm busy with something, and then something else needs to be done as a "priority" I no longer work twice as fast to get both things done. My life is so much better, and I am so much less stressed.

Obviously the company are now being hit by this though. My project has a backlog of work now, and I'm in no hurry to finish it, because if I did the company would just expect more of the same. I'll work hard, but no longer excessively hard.

This is affecting the project (and eventually probably the bottom line) but the beancounters only see people's salary as being low, and smugly think they've managed to hold down costs again....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. My work has now become a place where I wouldnt even consider getting stressed. I has almost become a game. Cover your ****, go through all the motions when the boss is around. Get the important work done so as not to attract attention to yourself and spend the rest of the time surfing the internet

They take away the motivation so we adjust our work ethic accordingly.

Unfortunately there are no real winners because even though we work less it doesnt feel good to be stagnating.

[glorious-to-be-rich]

my little bothers,

It is glorious to be rich.

Share with the drone, the the paddy field worker and the brother who rents and rants.

Share your fruit but not the seed, let the drone feel comfortable with work and labour. Let the brother claim and complain of pain from idleness.

Do not share that the world order is wealth and money, for then they will know it is glorious to be rich.

[Guest wrongmove]

The West is a (multiple) nuclear power as well you know. I've no doubt that they could do it (or even the US on its own) but no, that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was referring to trade wars, rather than military wars, such as the 27.5% blanket import tax on Chinese goods currently going through the American Congress (a protectionist measure)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree - Europe and US will undoubtably try to protect their markets, but history shows that it is always futile. Many in the West now make their money by retailing or adding value to Chinese imports - protectionism would hit them hard. And how would it prop up manufacturing ? i.e. what manufacturing ?

Interseting article on how China may reduce their links with the US:

China Needs a New Anchor - Stanley Roach, Morgan Stanley

[Sledgehead]

my little bothers,

It is glorious to be rich.

Share with the drone, the the paddy field worker and the brother who rents and rants.

Share your fruit but not the seed, let the drone feel comfortable with work and labour. Let the brother claim and complain of pain from idleness.

Do not share that the world order is wealth and money, for then they will know it is glorious to be rich.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Deng. Tired of communism are we?

[MarkG]

And how would it prop up manufacturing ? i.e. what manufacturing ?

It wouldn't, obviously, since there's no way American workers could compete with Chinese workers with a mere 27.5% import tarrif. But it _WOULD_ raise about another $200,000,000,000 in taxes for the government... that's a lot more pork for them to hand out to their mates.

[messychopper]

Just be careful they dont sack you for "poor performance". Don't get me wrong - I sympathise with your situation but unfortunately it's an employers' market in many jobs at the moment, and if they think they can get someone to work as hard as you used to, and for the same or less than they pay you, then they might.

Good luck, but be careful. I've seen many people adopt the "work to rule" approach - it rarely works, in my experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Balls to the accountant.

[Casual Observer]

Balls to the accountant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean?

[Rhombus]

Going back to Sine's original statement, I think you are expressing a sentiment held by an increasing number of people than just 5 years ago.

Looking at the human side, people are getting burnt out through consistent levels of stress, nightmare journeys to/fro work, a sense of making no difference, compounded tiredness and information overload. Unfortunately the very machine that we are communicating to each other through has become the controller and conduit of our working lives.

We have a number of people currently suffering genuine stress related illness from a pool of 80 people (service industry company). And the picture gets worse nationally, month by month, year by year. We are prescribing more and more antidepressants - did you know that antidepressants are the fastest growing sector of the pharma market. People simply cant cope anymore with all the various pressures on their lives. We're all (well most of the working population) basically knackered doing the same thing, day in, day out.

The result is that when we go to work, we see people aimlessly sat at their PC day observing life through their monitor for 8-10hrs per day then clicking 'Shutdown' and joining the battle called the 'rush-hour' home without having hardly left their office/workstation all day. In the 8-10 hours generally most people have done maybe 30mins productive work and interacted little on an interpersonal basis. This in itself makes people feel distant from each other. But why is all this? I think the reasons go beyond economics, although many economic factors play their part. I think we've (well the majority of people - some have seen the light) become conditioned to view progress as success at beating our fellow man, at processing information quicker than our competitors, at having the flash car, at having one more bedroom than our friends, at making senior management by 35.

But - this has led us to adopt a misaligned view of what constitutes progress. And we're conditioned to it now. Only a shortage of fundamental daily essentials such as oil (which is coming in 10-15 years time), food and possibly the effects of climate change will throw us collectively off this track and make us adopt new life approaches.

In the meantime, why push ourselves so hard? The view from the top of the corporate hill isnt as good as thought when halfway up it. Learn to settle for less and be content with living within your financial and emotional means.

As Clint Eastwood prophetically said - "A man needs to know his limits".

I think many of us have ignored ours and simply charged on ahead regardless in the need to compete on rules set for us by other people.

[zzg113]

people are getting burnt out through consistent levels of stress, nightmare journeys to/fro work, a sense of making no difference...we see people aimlessly sat at their PC day observing life through their monitor for 8-10hrs per day then clicking 'Shutdown' and joining the battle called the 'rush-hour' home without having hardly left their office/workstation all day.

I believe this is known as the "rat race".

did you know that antidepressants are the fastest growing sector of the pharma market

Yet more profit from human misery. Perhaps we should poison the air we breathe and then pay air-processing companies huge profits to supply us with clean air? Capitalism exploits the misery it creates.

I think we've (well the majority of people - some have seen the light) become conditioned to view progress as success at beating our fellow man, at processing information quicker than our competitors, at having the flash car, at having one more bedroom than our friends, at making senior management by 35.

I believe this is known as "keeping up with the Jones'".

http://www.worklessparty.org/pastevents/ra...ace_report.html

Undeterred by the dismal weather a sorry bunch of bedraggled rat workers scurried around the corporate obstacle course, snatching up money at every opportunity. Sadly, they all died unfulfilled after being abused by their manager,

The Course

Obstacle number 1 - The supervisor with management aspirations.

Obstacle number 2 - Power point presentation called 'Power corrupts, power point corrupts absolutely'.

Obstacle number 3 - Motivational Speaker where the rats waste valuable time writing their dreams on balloons.

Obstacle number 4 - Boulevard of lost dreams, where the rats found that their dreams were popped by a horrible pig.

Obstacle number 5 - Death and retirement, where the rats hopped into retirement only to find that they dropped down dead and had to hand back their money.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/Content/Retire...etheratrace.asp

http://www.ratraceremedies.com/

Burned Out, Stressed Out, Just Plain Tired...

If you're burned out, stressed out, or just plain tired of working jobs you've grown to hate

http://www.cbn.com/dailylife/career/ratrace.asp

http://www.cbn.com/dailylife/career/peanuts.asp

http://www.spaceship-earth.org/PoS/The_rat_race.htm

http://www.tamegoeswild.com/all_about_the_tame/ratrace.htm

Edited May 8, 2005 by zzg113

[Loftus Road]

For most of my working life I've been a hard, reliable worker who's done a good job because that's what you do. Haven't risen through the ranks because I haven't really wanted to. Can't be arsed with the politics you have to play to get on. I've worked in very stressful jobs where resources have been thin and absentiism high but I just got on with it and done well.

However, I've suddenly found myself in a position where, and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this, I've not got much to do and yet I'm earning the most money I've ever earned. At first, I felt uncomfortable and more stressed at having little to do than I ever did when I was snowed under. But I've got used to it and I think f*ck it, do it while I can. I'm eating better, taking more exercise and I'm better company, and I sit there looking at all these people running around like blue arsed flies, for what? I had a beer with my brother who's a city lawyer and he's stressed out. Every night he's out after work with clients boring the sh*t out of him. Clients giving him the run around..................and they even rung him up at 10pm on a Sat night. Okay, he's earning a shed full of money but it sounds a nightmare.

I'm sure it won't continue for me but for the time being I'm a contented person.

[Rhombus]

Sounds ok to me Loftus. I know how your brother feels.

zzq - you summarise nicely. Its about playing the rat-race and jones game for long enough and smartly enough to achieve enough independence to leave it all behind. Or leading a pastoral life from day 1.

[brainclamp]

This government will find :

"The work done by slaves, though it appears to cost only their maintenance, is in the end the dearest of any.

A person who can acquire no property can have no other interest but to eat as much, and to labor as little, as possible. Whatever work he does beyond what is sufficient to purchase his own maintenance can be squeezed out of him by violence only, and not by any interest of his own." - Adam Smith, The wealth of nations 1776

The feeling is widespread - if you weren't in on the property rocket it pointless trying to work upto it now. Your life is now defined as a treadmill. (The BOE intends for this wealth transfer to be perminant as I have outlined before). I have yet to hear of any society that has not stagnated into extreme backwardness, as a rentier society, with all material betterment incentives gone.

How do people force creativity, enthusiasm etc.. out of people with no real incentives?

Edited May 9, 2005 by brainclamp

[OnlyMe]

How do people force creativity, enthusiasm etc.. out of people with no real incentives?

It can't, agee with you 100%.

The financial management of this country is monumentally flawed and totally regressive, it is relying on people's stupidty to borrow beyond their means to create growth. A very bad situation.

Edited May 9, 2005 by OnlyMe

[zzg113]

A person who can acquire no property can have no other interest but to eat as much, and to labor as little, as possible. Whatever work he does beyond what is sufficient to purchase his own maintenance can be squeezed out of him by violence only, and not by any interest of his own." - Adam Smith, The wealth of nations 1776

Good old Adam Smith (neat find BTW Brainclamp); he knew more over 200 years ago than all of those chumps in government now.