right_freds_dead Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 watching the insidious homes under the hammer this morning on the notorious bbc. not one person was buying a house to live in. its all about trying to profit from others. and this is whats wrong. 2nd home ownership, flipping and btl have crowded out the market. theres no room for ftb citizens to buy family homes or starter homes anymore. its become a circus. even if you have a nice home, you are now strongly encouraged to buy more and profiteer. this is new to me. and i believe this is whats wrong with uk housing and is whats different than the last crash. i would push for a ban on 2nd home ownership and for all public lettings to be licenced and taxed by local councils. there is no way this country has enough room or housing stock for both its residents and its profiteers. both buyers and victims are voters. why should one group be benefitting at the expense of another. why the love for the flipper and the hate for the family.? remember. the thrilling profits these programs are encouraging the public to reap, come from the wages of an ftb family. and to me this is simply extortion of the working public. 20k profit is a 20k for the next ftb in line. nothing to celebrate for. it makes me sick. if they do a rennovation, perhaps thats more acceptable. but a lick of paint and new carpets = £20k. i dont think is fair and it should be banned. im happy to wait for this bubble to crash further during the next 24 mnths, and i hope it takes hundreds and hundreds of flippers with it. they deserve to lose their shirt and their own homes. i would have zero sympathy for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonification Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 remember. the thrilling profits these programs are encouraging the public to reap, come from the wages of an ftb family. and to me this is simply extortion of the working public. 20k profit is a 20k for the next ftb in line. nothing to celebrate for. it makes me sick. if they do a rennovation, perhaps thats more acceptable. but a lick of paint and new carpets = £20k. i dont think is fair and it should be banned. This is an interesting moral perspective. These programs present flipping property as free money, but of course, someone will end up paying for this bonanza from their wages, plus interest of course. Still, if you can rip someone off to feather your nest, that is fine. :angry: I saw an episode of Property Ladder on Sky where a nasty couple had bought a house to renovate and flip. What was incredible was their £5000 budget - made possible by roping in their friends in to do all the labouring. Having friends help you out for your own home is ok, but for a quick financial investment? A bit cheeky, I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 watching the insidious homes under the hammer this morning on the notorious bbc. not one person was buying a house to live in. its all about trying to profit from others. and this is whats wrong. 2nd home ownership, flipping and btl have crowded out the market. theres no room for ftb citizens to buy family homes or starter homes anymore. its become a circus. Looks like the final stage of the boom/first stage of the crash. Demand from the end users has been replaced by speculators who are bidding the price up on the back of expected future gains. Won't be long until they realise it's not going to happen, then it's no demand from anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) This is an interesting moral perspective. These programs present flipping property as free money, but of course, someone will end up paying for this bonanza from their wages, plus interest of course... Yes, and it's something that affects you in a very direct way when you look for property. At one time there would have been plenty of slightly rough property that you could move into and do some work on making it nicer for yourself. That's how my dad always used to buy his houses - pay a bit less for something that needed a bit of work and sort it out over time. But now you see a far higher proportion of flats and houses with the whole "Property Ladder" decor, cheap wood floors, a lick of paint, for £20-30K more than you would buy them unrenovated. Especially at the FTB level this vastly reduces your options - in fact it can seem almost impossible to find anything vaguely reasonable that hasn't been "done up". And generally with these places if you look them up on houseprices you see they were bought last year for £20-30K less. So someone's quick buck has taken that property out of your reach, financially. Edited April 4, 2006 by Magpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 We want your soul! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnd Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I saw an episode of Property Ladder on Sky where a nasty couple had bought a house to renovate and flip. What was incredible was their £5000 budget - made possible by roping in their friends in to do all the labouring. Having friends help you out for your own home is ok, but for a quick financial investment? A bit cheeky, I thought. They wouldn't hesistate to exploit other people - so why stop at their 'friends' People like this don't tend to have any real 'friends' anyway - once the money's gone - so do they... ...or am I just being cynical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingley Bloke Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 im happy to wait for this bubble to crash further during the next 24 mnths, and i hope it takes hundreds and hundreds of flippers with it. they deserve to lose their shirt and their own homes. i would have zero sympathy for them. My sentiments exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-FTBer Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Whether they get burned will depend on whether they exit the market in time, or are getting such good deals that they can continue to make a profit. I guess that as the market falls there will be less and less of them making a profit, and they'll all get shaken out of the tree like the monkeys they really are. What makes me laugh is the number of people who have jacked in their jobs (as seen on TV ) to be a property developer/flipper/BTL etc. I have a suspicion that many will regret that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landagan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Ban homes for profit, I agree absolutely. Can anyone think of a better way to stop this madness? It's not as if there aren't other ways to make money, money, money. But the cycle benefits the powers that be, and even a great many regulars here would only like to see a dip, so they can profit from it eventually. Human nature. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancypants Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 even a great many regulars here would only like to see a dip, so they can profit from it eventually. I have no real desire to "profit" from any dip. I simply want an affordable home. And one that would be large enough to raise the children that will eventually support me and my generation in retirement in - as well as affordable enough so that me and the Missus didn't have to work a combined 100hr week to keep the roof over our heads and spend enough time with the kids to raise them to be worthwhile adults. rather than being selfish, I think that is the socially responsible position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the end is a bit nigher Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 where was it from? i went to see one of the ouses on the harrogate prog recently - sold for £306k - amongst a couple of builders, the place was full of wannabe designers etc. i can guarantee they won't make any money out of it as it was a sh*t-tip and small with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsgate Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I don't have a problem with people who make a living by improving run-down places and selling them. If they spend their own money and months of their own time doing work on a house, why should they not get some reward for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I don't have a problem with people who make a living by improving run-down places and selling them. Agreed: people who really do that provide a benefit to society. The problem is when amateurs think that a weekend's work and 50 quid in paint and lino is enough to justify a 20k increase in price: particularly when the FTB who buys it off them is probably going to rip out their 'improvements' anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjamin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) . . Edited April 4, 2006 by benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I don't have a problem with people who make a living by improving run-down places and selling them. If they spend their own money and months of their own time doing work on a house, why should they not get some reward for it? It's just that it's become so widespread now that it pushes up prices across the board. It used to be more of a minority sport, but now it's a widespread craze, and at that level it is damaging. A lot of times the actual changes are completely cosmetic too, so you're being asked to pay £20K for them to hire a skip, slap on a bit of paint and put down some cheap flooring. If I didn't see so much of it I wouldn't complain at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landagan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I don't have a problem with people who make a living by improving run-down places and selling them. If they spend their own money and months of their own time doing work on a house, why should they not get some reward for it? Fair enough, but where do you draw the line? I am sure they are fair minded, good people, so they will understand the reason. Just nobody cares to discuss it. Maybe the BBC should do a little more to highlight the problems that buying second homes for profit can really cause. Instead of glamorising it. Now that would be a public service. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 My take on this: In any market where you have easy entry using porters fiver forces model such as the current lending criteria/ideology of fast buck/ no specialist education is needed. W Within the context of housing you would have what marketers call undifferentiated marketing: one product to all the market. Well this is obvious isn't it? No, because the idea is based around "like of paint 20k profit" so in effect you have commidification. You turn a unique branded product into flour. You invite price wars, until it is no longer worth doing it: risk/reward theory; look at current sales of video recorders. It's basically perfect competition the opposite of monopolistic competition. Too many cooks spoil the broth. This in generalised business is where the big survive and the small get fried. Same with any market. Unless you can sustain competitive advantage you are doomed, because margins become razor thin due to consumer knowledge etc. Take Wallmart, they make like 2 cents per dollar of sales. That's competitve advantage. Most just die. It's like none of these business models " lick of paint, 20k" are unique anymore. People have become wise to it and becomes old hat, and they haven't even got the pricing strategy right. It's like Dell computers have never been pioneers but what they do well is product life cycle management: they enter the market late and price there goods agressively. Maybe with the current house situation you could relate to Karl Marx in what he commodity fetishism. This is where the "use-value" of the commodity (i.e. you sleep in the house it keeps you warm etc.) is totally separated from "exchange-value" i.e. current price trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 its definatley a fetish of some sort. possibly a mental illness. its madness. festering madness. its getting in the way of living normaly and is sucking the life out of the retail economy. enough is enough surely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Its the BBC's fault though and other media, because over time if you tell people the same thing they tend to believe it. Some people might call it brainwashing. Alas I'm not sure what good it does the nation. Hardly "building a future for Britains young is it"? More like "Making you a debt slave to get on the proverbial ladder". Pfft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 you would have though that the bbc of all institutions would be on the ball and against this, BUT according to views posted here, the bbc staff are sunk to the nuts in btl and flipping. while we pay their wages. one of those two things has to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 What I don't understand is why do people think high house prices are good? It makes more sense for everything to be cheap. They have it all wrong example: Video recorder costs £10 DVD recorder costs £20 is better than Video recorder costs £20 DVD recorder costs £40 The increase cost in upgrading in the second example is approximately 50% net to get the DVD recorder from the first example. So you needed 50% more cash. So how's this good? Ok same increase in cost percentage wise but as the £££ signs increase you pay more in everything tax, interest, blah blah blah 10k @5% is better than 20K @ 5%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-FTBer Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 What I don't understand is why do people think high house prices are good? It makes more sense for everything to be cheap. They have it all wrong example: Video recorder costs £10 DVD recorder costs £20 is better than Video recorder costs £20 DVD recorder costs £40 The increase cost in upgrading in the second example is approximately 50% net to get the DVD recorder from the first example. So you needed 50% more cash. So how's this good? Ok same increase in cost percentage wise but as the £££ signs increase you pay more in everything tax, interest, blah blah blah 10k @5% is better than 20K @ 5%. is it coz ppl iz stupid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devslim Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) remember. the thrilling profits these programs are encouraging the public to reap, come from the wages of an ftb family. and to me this is simply extortion of the working public. 20k profit is a 20k for the next ftb in line. nothing to celebrate for. it makes me sick. if they do a rennovation, perhaps thats more acceptable. but a lick of paint and new carpets = £20k. i dont think is fair and it should be banned. A little over the top don't you think? If you can make a quick 20K then you can't blame people for putting the work in to flip properties... If an ftb is willing to pay 20k for a lick of paint then more fool them. The blame has to be attributed to them. Nobody is forcing them to buy these places after all. If they don't want to pay the premium for a freshly decorated house they could always but a cheaper place and put the work in themselves. Edited April 4, 2006 by devslim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicster Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 If they don't want to pay the premium for a freshly decorated house they could always but a cheaper place and put the work in themselves. Assuming they can find one that is - where there are any houses left that haven't been Ikea-ed/laminated to within an inch of their lives, the difference in price can be pretty slight. Seems the amateur developers might not be reaping the rewards they expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 A little over the top don't you think?If you can make a quick 20K then you can't blame people for putting the work in to flip properties... If an ftb is willing to pay 20k for a lick of paint then more fool them. The blame has to be attributed to them. Nobody is forcing them to buy these places after all. If they don't want to pay the premium for a freshly decorated house they could always but a cheaper place and put the work in themselves. if a retiree is prepared to pay £275 ph for a plumber because im the only plumber in town - this is good is it ? thats the plan then for 2020. more fool them...... we will get the inflation back in one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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