smash Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Dupe Edited January 20 by smash Run ABP on the forum and not full functionality, for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 20 hours ago, bumble bee said: Look how many people think you are writing bull**** Thousands of Houthi supporters have taken to the streets in Sana’a, Yemen to express their solidarity with Palestinians and protest against US air raids. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/19/middle-east-crisis-live-news-updates-israel-gaza-war-houthi-rebels-yemen-russia-china-ships-red-sea-crisis-attacks Haha Rollover you realise that proved absolutely nothing, like any number of your posts. Does it prove the drone didn't crash harmlessly in the sea? No Does it prove the strikes are not degrading the ability of the Houthis to fire missiles into the sea? No. Just for once try and link some dots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 16 hours ago, bumble bee said: Who would think that ...? Israel financed Hamas to weaken Palestinian Authority, says EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell, in a speech at the University of Valladolid in Spain on Friday, also said Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, had “personally” derailed any attempt to resolve the decades-long Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He said: Yes, Hamas was financed by the government of Israel in an attempt to weaken the Palestinian Authority led by Fatah. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jan/19/middle-east-crisis-live-news-updates-israel-gaza-war-houthi-rebels-yemen-russia-china-ships-red-sea-crisis-attacks This is not news - Hamas were created by Muslim Brotherhood to directly oppose Fatah as Fatah are socialist and they are Arab nationalist. Hamas quite literally executed Fatah members and hunted the PLO in Gaza. Israel allowed Qatar to fund Hamas when they fell out with Iran for a time and it is alleged Israel helped funds directly before this when Hamas and Fatah were fighting each other. This is news to you as you just discovered this conflict 5 minutes ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 21 hours ago, pig said: The opposition: https://apnews.com/article/politics-israel-government-benjamin-netanyahu-west-bank-2aadcdf4de57c54c59e619478bac63dc# Post October 7th: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/lapid-palestinian-statehood-not-dead-but-oct-7-delays-possibility-of-two-state-solution/ Former head of Israeli intel services basically said this is Netanyahu and settler bloc's fault, there needs to be a 2 state solution. He repeated it after his son was killed in operations in Gaza. He's also very astute as saying leaders of 2nd intifada would be willing to adopt 2state solution if released from jail and are more popular than Hamas leadership in Gaza and West Bank so could deliver it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 15 hours ago, sta100 said: No, we won't pause and reflect We need Israel as an ally right now since several countries are trying to destabilise us and succeeding. The Hamas attack was merely another well timed proxy action from these Countries. It's shocking how many people don't recognise we're teetering on the brink and think the plight of Palestine is more important. Israel can do what they want. This is insane Also you are aware Israel was leaning towards the Russians much more than the West until they fell out a couple of years back. The Palestinians do matter and saying they don't is very very silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 12 hours ago, Chunketh said: Maybe, but it also serves as an excellent recruitment sergeant. I genuinely dont know what is the right course of action actually is, but im pretty sure the current course will lead to more suffering on both sides. Extremes rarely lead to any place good, which is kinda depressing when we look at the general state of political discourse across the world. We are being led by a polarised narrative that serves none of us, yet sells newspapers and viewing figures. The sooner we wake up the better. Extremes brought us here Hamas launched the attack because it internally feared its moderates were going to go for aid for end to violence. Israeli settler bloc got in to prop up Netanyahu and save him from jail Last groups pushing for peace and getting somewhere were assassinated by each of those blocs - Rabin in Israel and Fatah negotiators in Gaza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 18/01/2024 at 14:20, winkie said: I count anybody who posts this song as someone perpetrating an act of war 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 19/01/2024 at 00:09, pig said: Actually could be good news - might have done the US (and Europe) a favour. Better Netanyahu cuts himself off from the West than the West cuts itself off from Israel... Biden is caught in the headlights of domestic politics. He can't do anything effective without fecking himself over. So the genocide in Gaza will continue. Netanyahu is caught by his own malevolent ambition and survival, so can't stop. He has to live up to the Fascist rhetoric he has made in the past and is beholden to the right-wing geniciders in his party. It's going to go on for months yet. Nobody has the will or balls to tell Netanyahu to stop - and he knows it. Over 25,000 dead so far. Most women and children. And another 7000 missing. Gaza is uninhabitable. no power, no water, no working healthcare, no food, disease, no communications, no fuel, nowhere to shelter. No hope. Never any peace. Anybody who thinks this is not intended genocide needs their fecking head examined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 19/01/2024 at 02:19, donadoni said: They didn't get that coalition from only one person. Netanyahu is less insane than some of the other politicians. If he goes you might get someone more recklessness. Israel wont be primarily damaged by enemies. They will do it by infighting and fighting their own allies. This is my prediction for the next two years. The weakening of Israel through its own insane actors. I agree. Here is an extreme example of what you get when you let bent populists run countries. They will do anything to make sure THEY alone gain and feck the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 16 hours ago, sta100 said: No, we won't pause and reflect We need Israel as an ally right now since several countries are trying to destabilise us and succeeding. The Hamas attack was merely another well timed proxy action from these Countries. It's shocking how many people don't recognise we're teetering on the brink and think the plight of Palestine is more important. Israel can do what they want. How does killing over 30,000 people solve things and create peace? Answers on a postcard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumble bee Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Biden is caught in the headlights of domestic politics. He can't do anything effective without fecking himself over. So the genocide in Gaza will continue. Netanyahu is caught by his own malevolent ambition and survival, so can't stop. He has to live up to the Fascist rhetoric he has made in the past and is beholden to the right-wing geniciders in his party. It's going to go on for months yet. Nobody has the will or balls to tell Netanyahu to stop - and he knows it. Over 25,000 dead so far. Most women and children. And another 7000 missing. Gaza is uninhabitable. no power, no water, no working healthcare, no food, disease, no communications, no fuel, nowhere to shelter. No hope. Never any peace. Anybody who thinks this is not intended genocide needs their fecking head examined. What do you think about the UK position? Netanyahu’s rejection of Palestinian state unacceptable, says David Lammy The shadow foreign secretary, David Lammy, has described Benjamin Netanyahu’s opposition to the establishment of a Palestinian state when the war in the Middle East ends as “unacceptable”. He echoed Keir Starmer’s reaction to Netanyahu’s stance. Lammy said: “We are committed to the recognition of a Palestinian state. We want to work with international partners to achieve that.” “And I have to say, I think Netanyahu’s words were unacceptable,” he added. “Of course, the Palestinian people deserve a state, and if they don’t, the consequence of that is either one state in which Benjamin Netanyahu would have to explain how Palestinians and Israelis live side by-side with equal rights, or no state, in which what he is really saying is occupation, and siege continues.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/20/netanyahu-rejection-palestinian-state-unacceptable-david-lammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 15 hours ago, yelims said: It’s the only thing the barbaric Islamists understand, and as a bonus it bring some of them closer to meeting those promised virgins Do you have Al Jazeera over there Smiley? I suggest you watch a few hours of it to balance your soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bumble bee said: What do you think about the UK position? Netanyahu’s rejection of Palestinian state unacceptable, says David Lammy The shadow foreign secretary, David Lammy, has described Benjamin Netanyahu’s opposition to the establishment of a Palestinian state when the war in the Middle East ends as “unacceptable”. He echoed Keir Starmer’s reaction to Netanyahu’s stance. Lammy said: “We are committed to the recognition of a Palestinian state. We want to work with international partners to achieve that.” “And I have to say, I think Netanyahu’s words were unacceptable,” he added. “Of course, the Palestinian people deserve a state, and if they don’t, the consequence of that is either one state in which Benjamin Netanyahu would have to explain how Palestinians and Israelis live side by-side with equal rights, or no state, in which what he is really saying is occupation, and siege continues.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/20/netanyahu-rejection-palestinian-state-unacceptable-david-lammy I think the UK has become irrelevant on the world stage since the populists staged the ground-breaking-brilliance of Brexit and turned us into a laughing stock. In other words, the UK's influence is zero. Next? Edited January 20 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 7 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Biden is caught in the headlights of domestic politics. He can't do anything effective without fecking himself over. So the genocide in Gaza will continue. Netanyahu is caught by his own malevolent ambition and survival, so can't stop. He has to live up to the Fascist rhetoric he has made in the past and is beholden to the right-wing geniciders in his party. It's going to go on for months yet. Nobody has the will or balls to tell Netanyahu to stop - and he knows it. Over 25,000 dead so far. Most women and children. And another 7000 missing. Gaza is uninhabitable. no power, no water, no working healthcare, no food, disease, no communications, no fuel, nowhere to shelter. No hope. Never any peace. Anybody who thinks this is not intended genocide needs their fecking head examined. Yes exactly Netenyahu is 'stuck' in a course of action, not just for ideological reasons but for selfish political reasons. This means that it is almost impossible for any meaningful dialogue with him. Consequently there can't be any certainty - if there ever was - that the slaughter and the humanitarian crisis they are inflicting on Gaza achieves any worthwhile security advantage for Israel. Israels allies have been caught in a conundrum - its as if Israel is held hostage by the Far Right nutters in charge, who in turn are led like donkeys by Irans proxy machinations. But when the Netenyahu and his nutters actually start explicitly blocking routes to peace, I think that actually weakens their international position and throws Israels allies a kind of lifeline for leverage to end the conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, pig said: Yes exactly Netenyahu is 'stuck' in a course of action, not just for ideological reasons but for selfish political reasons. This means that it is almost impossible for any meaningful dialogue with him. Consequently there can't be any certainty - if there ever was - that the slaughter and the humanitarian crisis they are inflicting on Gaza achieves any worthwhile security advantage for Israel. Israels allies have been caught in a conundrum - its as if Israel is held hostage by the Far Right nutters in charge, who in turn are led like donkeys by Irans proxy machinations. But when the Netenyahu and his nutters actually start explicitly blocking routes to peace, I think that actually weakens their international position and throws Israels allies a kind of lifeline for leverage to end the conflict. Of course it doesn't increase Israel's security. As the many decades of this conflict proves. For those worried about immigration as their mantra, try to imagine a whole new race of immigrants dropped in their millions into the centre of the UK like a human atom bomb. Then the rest of the world turns a blind eye and couldn't really care less. This is the reality of the Israeli/Palestinian eternal conflict. Nobody has done the same job for the Palestinians as they did for the Jews in 1948. The Jews quite rightly had the motivation to make it work, the Palestinians were scattered and left to their fate. For me, the stolen and destroyed olive groves in the west Bank and previously Gaza symbolises it. A Palestinian family had tended them for centuries and now most of them have been destroyed by Israeli bulldozers. The problem with the world is we've let too many arse holes get their hands on the levers of power. Once we cull them, things will settle down again. BTW Pig, I've just finished binge-watching The Diplomat on Netflix. Highly recommended. Superb. The tension build is fantastic and the dialogue is fast and funny too. Here's a speech given by the Diplomat's husband, Hal, to a bunch of crusty Brit elites. "We started the Bosnia talks a few days after Suljic launched a bombing campaign that very nearly killed the woman who's now my wife. It was my lot to spend more hours in locked rooms with that man than in the hospital with Kate. First time I met him, I refused to shake his hand. Rookie move. It probably set the peace back a year. Communication isn't the key. Diplomacy doesn't open doors with a twist of the wrist. Diplomacy never works. It never ******ing works. Diplomacy is 40 days and nights in a Vienna hotel room, listening to the same empty talking points. Getting trashed at the minibar. It's getting to "no" over, and over, and over. The answer will be "no," so don't stop when you hear it. Diplomacy never works. Until it does. I've given 30 years of my life for two moments. When enemies stood on blood-soaked ground... and grasped hands. I'd give it 30 more. The second round of talks with Suljic... I shook his hand. Two years later, he was a tired man hoping for peace, and together... we ended the war. One of the boneheaded truisms of foreign policy is that talking to your enemies legitimizes them. Talk to everyone. Talk to the dictator, and the war criminal. Talk to the poor schmuck three levels down who's so pissed he has to sit in the back of the second car, he may be ready to turn. Talk to terrorists. Talk to everyone. Fail, and fail again. And brush yourself off. And fail again. Because maybe... Maybe." Edited January 20 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 38 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Of course it doesn't increase Israel's security. As the many decades of this conflict proves. For those worried about immigration as their mantra, try to imagine a whole new race of immigrants dropped in their millions into the centre of the UK like a human atom bomb. Then the rest of the world turns a blind eye and couldn't really care less. This is the reality of the Israeli/Palestinian eternal conflict. Nobody has done the same job for the Palestinians as they did for the Jews in 1948. The Jews quite rightly had the motivation to make it work, the Palestinians were scattered and left to their fate. For me, the stolen and destroyed olive groves in the west Bank and previously Gaza symbolises it. A Palestinian family had tended them for centuries and now most of them have been destroyed by Israeli bulldozers. The problem with the world is we've let too many arse holes get their hands on the levers of power. Once we cull them, things will settle down again. BTW Pig, I've just finished binge-watching The Diplomat on Netflix. Highly recommended. Superb. The tension build is fantastic and the dialogue is fast and funny too. Here's a speech given by the Diplomat's husband, Hal, to a bunch of crusty Brit elites. "We started the Bosnia talks a few days after Suljic launched a bombing campaign that very nearly killed the woman who's now my wife. It was my lot to spend more hours in locked rooms with that man than in the hospital with Kate. First time I met him, I refused to shake his hand. Rookie move. It probably set the peace back a year. Communication isn't the key. Diplomacy doesn't open doors with a twist of the wrist. Diplomacy never works. It never ******ing works. Diplomacy is 40 days and nights in a Vienna hotel room, listening to the same empty talking points. Getting trashed at the minibar. It's getting to "no" over, and over, and over. The answer will be "no," so don't stop when you hear it. Diplomacy never works. Until it does. I've given 30 years of my life for two moments. When enemies stood on blood-soaked ground... and grasped hands. I'd give it 30 more. The second round of talks with Suljic... I shook his hand. Two years later, he was a tired man hoping for peace, and together... we ended the war. One of the boneheaded truisms of foreign policy is that talking to your enemies legitimizes them. Talk to everyone. Talk to the dictator, and the war criminal. Talk to the poor schmuck three levels down who's so pissed he has to sit in the back of the second car, he may be ready to turn. Talk to terrorists. Talk to everyone. Fail, and fail again. And brush yourself off. And fail again. Because maybe... Maybe." Thanks for the tip ! I'm a box set hoarder - save them for a rainy day rather than watch them as they come out Netenyahu and his lunatic partners aren't really talking to anybody as far as I can see. I think they actually see the current crisis as an excuse not to Similarly I don't think the talking heads the Israelis put up on uk TV are doing very well in communicating to the broader public (imho!) but I recognise many of the talking points and debating strategies from SM posts I've seen. So with reference to Hal - they are in a bad place, doubling down internally, alienating everybody else. Curled up like a hedgehog such that is a struggle even for their friends to get close. But, perversely, if the government starts openly talking about avoiding options for peace - maybe thats actually a way out for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, jonb2 said: I count anybody who posts this song as someone perpetrating an act of war 🙂 Really......man has always wared and always will do......it requires a special group of nutrual people to get them to think of the consequences of not putting themselves into the shoes of others and work towards peace for all, the ideal situation.....less pride more humility and understanding.....what goes around comes around........all equal, all important, all only human, all vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, winkie said: Really......man has always wared and always will do......it requires a special group of nutrual people to get them to think of the consequences of not putting themselves into the shoes of others and work towards peace for all, the ideal situation.....less pride more humility and understanding.....what goes around comes around........all equal, all important, all only human, all vulnerable. Women ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, pig said: Women ? No, not always.....but would agree women generally have certain virtues, men certain others..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sta100 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 4 hours ago, jonb2 said: How does killing over 30,000 people solve things and create peace? Answers on a postcard We're at war in case you haven't noticed. Peace has long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sta100 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 hours ago, smash said: Israel can't just do what it wants, its actions can, and are, emboldening the very people and countries you are concerned about. Those countries aren't emboldening the West then? Just innocent bystanders I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sta100 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 hours ago, Staffsknot said: This is insane Also you are aware Israel was leaning towards the Russians much more than the West until they fell out a couple of years back. The Palestinians do matter and saying they don't is very very silly Thinking the Palestinians matter more than your own Country is very silly. I'm amazed by how many people haven't caught up to the rapid deterioration of the West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 37 minutes ago, sta100 said: Thinking the Palestinians matter more than your own Country is very silly. I'm amazed by how many people haven't caught up to the rapid deterioration of the West. You have gone off in a wild tangent Britain isn't threatened by Palestinians in Gaza We are not at war with Palestinians In fact Britain is not at war at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sta100 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 23 minutes ago, Staffsknot said: You have gone off in a wild tangent Britain isn't threatened by Palestinians in Gaza We are not at war with Palestinians In fact Britain is not at war at all The West is being flooded by Chinese drugs, Chinese Viruses, Chinese propaganda, and you think we're not at war. Do you seriously think the timing of this attack was not intended to deliver exactly the kind of distraction and division that we're seeing here? Do you even take a look around your own Country and see what's going on or is only when people get blown up in a far away land you get concerned about the suffering of others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maghull Mike Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Don't worry, Dhey have a plan you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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