My accountant told me HMRC are going for the Landlords

[SE10]

32 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

They can go back 20 years and fine you 200% of unpaid tax. 

brutal. 

If you've been naughty, I've been in a situation where I underpaid due to HMRC cocking up. In this situation I paid nominal interest but no fine and they could only back date 7 years

Doesn't sound like a very landlord situation though, eh? 😁

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

1 hour ago, 70PC said:

The emergency exit for Del Boys has been auctions. From another thread on this forum, it would seem that boat has sailed. 

A low reserve auction might soften the CGT bill 😄

p.s. What happened to taper relief ? Am I right in thinking it has now gone entirely.

[PeanutButter]

It’s crazy to think how long LL have been getting away with tax evasion. 

[Unmoderated]

2 hours ago, shlomo said:

I was having a chat with my accountant today and he said to me that HMRC are gunning for the landlords, he has had about 20 calls in the past month from new clients who are in the sights of HMRC, he said the Government has run out of money so now have to go for them and the fines being leveled are very harsh. 

You know what the most worrying thing about this is? 2022/23 was a record tax collection year for HMRC and 10% higher than the previous tax year. If they're still running out of money I have two questions:

• What the f*** are they spunking it on (rhetorical question - f***ing boomers)
• Where should I emigrate to?

Talking to several of the higher skilled (those with actual professional qualifications requiring an actual training contract) at work and it's on everyone's mind. UAE? USA? Canada? Oz? NZ? India even?

[captainb]

Just now, Unmoderated said:

You know what the most worrying thing about this is? 2022/23 was a record tax collection year for HMRC and 10% higher than the previous tax year. If they're still running out of money I have two questions:

• What the f*** are they spunking it on (rhetorical question - f***ing boomers)
• Where should I emigrate to?

Talking to several of the higher skilled (those with actual professional qualifications requiring an actual training contract) at work and it's on everyone's mind. UAE? USA? Canada? Oz? NZ? India even?

Didn't you enjoy all the lockdowns? 

Totally cost free ....... 

[jiltedjen]

really hope it’s true that they are finally going after landlords.

from a leveraged landlord perspective it’s like the perfect storm.

no-one will cry for landlords. 

politically I wonder how many people instead of being upset with the unfairness of the system, actually just dropped morals in an instant and dove right in exploiting others. How much of a different political landscape we would of lived under if soo many didn’t go down the greed route, if soo many realised it was not a viable option. 

I know people at my work who didn’t think it was worth pressing hard for page rises, as work is a mugs game, and HPI and their rentals will bail them out. 

BTL has sold a lie to those who hate worst the most. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by jiltedjen

[Unmoderated]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

Didn't you enjoy all the lockdowns? 

Totally cost free ....... 

Oh I just loved them. 

Pure insanity!

One of the biggest causes of inflation, imho, was the BS BBL and furlough. I had a few people called out to do jobs that I could maybe do at a stretch but thought better to get a pro. The quotes were just taking the p!$$. Over a grand to cut down a tree! Looking at the guy waiting for him to serious up. Just cracked on. I could literally cut the tree down and dispose of it via the log burner and save on heating. It would be a net win for me. This chump wanted around £1,200.

Why? He's getting paid to do FA so can be picky about what he wants to 'work' on. 

All to protect the undead.

I've slightly switched plans now. I am going to start chucking about 50% of my salary into my pension and I'm going to sell up here and buy something I can work on totally myself and with a big reduction in mortgage. 

I aim to pay minimal taxes going forwards. 

F**k the system. 

[PeanutButter]

6 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

You know what the most worrying thing about this is? 2022/23 was a record tax collection year for HMRC and 10% higher than the previous tax year. If they're still running out of money I have two questions:

• What the f*** are they spunking it on (rhetorical question - f***ing boomers)
• Where should I emigrate to?

Talking to several of the higher skilled (those with actual professional qualifications requiring an actual training contract) at work and it's on everyone's mind. UAE? USA? Canada? Oz? NZ? India even?

Just you or a family? Forever or just til retirement? 

 

[Unmoderated]

Just now, PeanutButter said:

Just you or a family? Forever or just til retirement? 

 

Just me.

Not certain about forever. Part of me feels I've already paid in so much that I am owed. Then I feel like a boomer. Like the one I was talking to over the weekend who thinks doctors should be banned from striking. 

[PeanutButter]

Loads of LLs on mums net I wonder if any would admit not to paying tax. 

 

[Sackboii]

2 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

I aim to pay minimal taxes going forwards. 

F**k the system. 

I came to this conclusion about a year ago. It’s unavoidable for me at present but when I retire, I’ll be paying NO tax for as long as is absolutely possible.

[Insane]

4 minutes ago, captainb said:

Didn't you enjoy all the lockdowns? 

Totally cost free ....... 

He has also forgotten the Bank Bailouts. Since 1997 successive governments have been racking up debt way before any Boomer had reached state retirement age , almost half of them have still not got there, yet he blames the Boomers. 

He also tells us he is educated LOL. 

[PeanutButter]

Just now, Unmoderated said:

Just me.

Not certain about forever. Part of me feels I've already paid in so much that I am owed. Then I feel like a boomer. Like the one I was talking to over the weekend who thinks doctors should be banned from striking. 

I’d vote UAE, then Aus (not Syd or Melb). 

Cost of living in both has gone up a lot (UAE flooded with Russians). But great standard of living. You would have a housekeeper etc. 

Just retire back here for what’s left if the NHS. 

[Unmoderated]

Just now, Sackboii said:

I came to this conclusion about a year ago. It’s unavoidable for me at present but when I retire, I’ll be paying NO tax for as long as is absolutely possible.

It's my biggest expense by a long way. Even If I went onto a trendy interest rate it still would be. 

I had a theory a while back that the government likes high house prices and high rents because it means people are forced to earn as much as possible which in turn makes them pay more taxes.

House prices are the treadmill on which PAYE are running. 

[Maghull Mike]

HCF...................... Human Capital flight..............will keep them up at night like it did in the 70's

[Si1]

Just now, Maghull Mike said:

HCF...................... Human Capital flight..............will keep them up at night like it did in the 70's

What's human capital got to do with landlords?

[Sackboii]

3 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

I had a theory a while back that the government likes high house prices and high rents because it means people are forced to earn as much as possible which in turn makes them pay more taxes.

House prices are the treadmill on which PAYE are running. 

I had never thought of it that way, but you are right.

[Si1]

5 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

It's my biggest expense by a long way. Even If I went onto a trendy interest rate it still would be. 

I had a theory a while back that the government likes high house prices and high rents because it means people are forced to earn as much as possible which in turn makes them pay more taxes.

House prices are the treadmill on which PAYE are running. 

 

Just now, Sackboii said:

I had never thought of it that way, but you are right.

Govt, and corporate employers, need to own slaves. Over promotion and debt are very effective bonds that tie.

[RentingForever]

1 hour ago, shlomo said:

I really don’t think the money is out there, I know there’s this thing about phenomenal amounts hidden black money but when the Indian government did their demonetisation they ended up with no pot of money.

People spend everything 

If only these landlords had some kind of non-hideable asset they could be forced to sell to pay the fines. Oh, hang on...

[Si1]

3 minutes ago, RentingForever said:

If only these landlords had some kind of non-hideable asset they could be forced to sell to pay the fines. Oh, hang on...

White Range Rover?

[petetong]

2 hours ago, 70PC said:

The emergency exit for Del Boys has been auctions. From another thread on this forum, it would seem that boat has sailed. 

Dunno, watched a wreck near me up for auction, and I mean a wreck with a plant growing into living room through external wall and no floorboards in one large upstair room, no kitchen, no bathroom, multiple areas of damp etc etc. On for £140K, at auction went for £274K, it will need £100K spending on it at least. That was last week.

[Unmoderated]

2 minutes ago, petetong said:

Dunno, watched a wreck near me up for auction, and I mean a wreck with a plant growing into living room through external wall and no floorboards in one large upstair room, no kitchen, no bathroom, multiple areas of damp etc etc. On for £140K, at auction went for £274K, it will need £100K spending on it at least. That was last week.

What area are you PT?

[TheChangeIsCast]

1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

They can go back 20 years and fine you 200% of unpaid tax. 

brutal. 

The normal discovery window is 4 years, which can be extended to 6 years in certain circumstances i.e. if something is serious but due to carelessness rather than deliberate. They can go back 20 years if they strongly suspect the activity was  deliberate (i.e. fraud). Typically  as well as the backdated tax, you'll end up paying interest, as well as up to 100% in fines on top from memory. There's been quite a few suicides in the contractor community due to the loan charge stuff - basically people who were using legal but aggressive tax avoidance schemes (i.e. loan schemes), but HMRC have come along and basically declared them illegal and retro taxed a lot of them back to the start of the scheme. In some cases, this could be from the eighties, up until say 2017, 18 etc which is when it started kicking off, so some people have been absolutely destroyed. 

So HMRC have got form with letting things pass for years, decades even, and then they'll be pretty savage and ruthless when they decide to crack down on something. I can imagine Covid fraud, and landlords might well be the next loan charge style crackdown.

[Hitmanfan]

7 minutes ago, TheChangeIsCast said:

The normal discovery window is 4 years, which can be extended to 6 years in certain circumstances i.e. if something is serious but due to carelessness rather than deliberate. They can go back 20 years if they strongly suspect the activity was  deliberate (i.e. fraud). Typically  as well as the backdated tax, you'll end up paying interest, as well as up to 100% in fines on top from memory. There's been quite a few suicides in the contractor community due to the loan charge stuff - basically people who were using legal but aggressive tax avoidance schemes (i.e. loan schemes), but HMRC have come along and basically declared them illegal and retro taxed a lot of them back to the start of the scheme. In some cases, this could be from the eighties, up until say 2017, 18 etc which is when it started kicking off, so some people have been absolutely destroyed. 

So HMRC have got form with letting things pass for years, decades even, and then they'll be pretty savage and ruthless when they decide to crack down on something. I can imagine Covid fraud, and landlords might well be the next loan charge style crackdown.

This.... It's 4 years for a standard compliance check, if there's evidence of deliberate tax errors then they can go back 20 years. But that's unlikely unless it's obvious and serious.

I've heard rumors that property income is being looked at more closely. So, hopefully some LLs get made to pay what they owe. Ignorance will be no defence.

[TheChangeIsCast]

1 minute ago, Hitmanfan said:

This.... It's 4 years for a standard compliance check, if there's evidence of deliberate tax errors then they can go back 20 years. But that's unlikely unless it's obvious and serious.

I've heard rumors that property income is being looked at more closely. So, hopefully some LLs get made to pay what they owe. Ignorance will be no defence.

It makes a lot of sense that they would perhaps start looking at property income. They have very limited investigative resources by all accounts, and they finally 'cracked' IR35 (from their perspective, at least) after 21 years of trying in 2021, which has brought in a lot of additional tax for them, not to mention previously they had to open investigations into each individual contractor, and go to court to fight it out, taking years with an uncertain outcome (they lost a lot of ir35 cases in court), whereas under the new rules, all they have to do now is go straight to a big client who they know are engaging lots of contractors, and investigate the company rather than individuals, hence the millions paid in back taxes and fines by various public sector bodies in recent years. They did the same thing to Siemens a few months ago, but Siemens had all their ducks in a row. They have also 'cracked' (again, from their perspective) the loan schemes, and so it's natural that they will probably move onto the next juicy target.