There are an awful lot of people trying to sell an awful lot of houses for an awful amount of money...

[winkie]

On 22/07/2023 at 22:35, nero120 said:

House prices are really just the tip of the iceberg, we've been living in a clown world funded by unjustified debt expansion and inflation for at least 15 years, arguably much longer. Interest rates have been on the decline for 41 years, my entire lifetime, and have finally now finally turned, the effects of which have really yet to be felt. Globalisation is dead, the east is rising and they are p1ssed with the west and it's abusive hegemonic behaviour. Even the mainstream media are starting to accept the fact that the Russians are kicking our collective asses in Ukraine, where western-made modern tanks are now burning, and any number of western soldiers mercenaries have been obliterated. At the BRICS summit this coming August, there is expected to be some news regarding their response to the west's financial control of global trade and commodities markets. That is really the decisive battle, and the one that will put the final nail in the western coffin.

I like Charlie a lot, and appreciate everything he does. However, it's really pointless making a prediction regarding how far prices will fall. Given what I've just outlined, how can anyone even remotely guess the effects on prices (of any asset class) in an epoch-shift such as we are in right now. What if the centre of global commodity trade shifts to the east and London has nothing to offer the world but IOUs not worth the paper they are printed on - what would that do to London property prices? No one truly appreciates the change that is happening right now, everyone just expects tomorrow will be the same as yesterday, more or less. When this thing finally bottoms it could be so far down from here that no one ever thought it possible.

Sentiment......house prices will be the least of our problems when not enough to eat and energy and fresh water are selling for a premium....

[wighty]

4 hours ago, Sackboii said:

It’s just had the ‘sold’ sign removed and sure enough it’s back on the market. Obviously it fell through…

In light of the above, it’s going to be a while yet…

At the same price as before?.

[Sackboii]

1 minute ago, wighty said:

At the same price as before?.

Same price as was last listed yes - reduced from the initial asking price.

Original asking price £225k

Reduced in June to £210k

Re-listed now for £210k

[desiringonlychild]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:46 AM, hotblack42 said:

No. Its because its "zone 3" ie cherry picked bits of zone 3 with lower crime inhabited by mainly polite, educated folk.

This also zone 3.  Ordinary, uninteresting location, but not dangerous location, excellent commute to the City or Canary wharf.  Yes, small, but is freehold, & not a lock up. Probably > 50% immigrant / immigrants heritage.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133731941?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

Some on here are wishing for a nice roomy home in a pleasant, safe inner London neighbourhood c. 75% indigenous. Somewhere like Putney or Blackheath.

They are dropping hard now, but they've never been, and never will be 'affordable'.

My 2 bed flat is worth £400k in zone 3 north London. It was Margaret Thatcher's constituency and 70% white (i am not white). You can walk to Highgate woods from where I live.. good schools too. It's a small 2 bed flat (same size as that house) but the freehold is owned by the residents. According to electoral calculas UK, my postcode is 79% abc1 so that's good enough for me. 

 

Bought it for £392k in 2019. It's just small but it does have two bedrooms. That's the compromise. And is a flat but does have a lovely communal garden (and service charges determined by residents). I have been looking for something bigger but unless I spend a lot more money (which I am not sure I want to do for a third bedroom that is really a box room), I am not going to get something better in the same location. My husband feels that since buying property is such a rip off and dead money, we should just go for location cos at least we would benefit from that. To him, the bricks and mortar are not very important.

Edited August 28, 2023 by desiringonlychild

[14stFlyer]

13 hours ago, desiringonlychild said:

My husband feels that since buying property is such a rip off and dead money, we should just go for location cos at least we would benefit from that. To him, the bricks and mortar are not very important.

Sounds like you married a goodun!

I hope you are enjoying your small and not aspirational home in a nice area. 

it is, in my view, attitudes like the above that will eventually kill off the madness of inflated house prices.  When a significant portion of a generation decide to spend the minimum amount they can on housing, rather than maximise their debt levels in order to “keep up with the Jones’s”, then we will have experienced the correction.  Based upon most of the young people I know (who are very materialistic, especially in relation to housing), we still have a way to go… 

[Timm]

31 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said:

Sounds like you married a goodun!

I hope you are enjoying your small and not aspirational home in a nice area. 

it is, in my view, attitudes like the above that will eventually kill off the madness of inflated house prices.  When a significant portion of a generation decide to spend the minimum amount they can on housing, rather than maximise their debt levels in order to “keep up with the Jones’s”, then we will have experienced the correction.  Based upon most of the young people I know (who are very materialistic, especially in relation to housing), we still have a way to go… 

Yes.

Mass sentiment is key.

[Armus]

1 hour ago, 14stFlyer said:

it is, in my view, attitudes like the above that will eventually kill off the madness of inflated house prices.  When a significant portion of a generation decide to spend the minimum amount they can on housing, rather than maximise their debt levels in order to “keep up with the Jones’s”, then we will have experienced the correction.  Based upon most of the young people I know (who are very materialistic, especially in relation to housing), we still have a way to go… 

I'm not sure how common that attitude is but your general sentiment is correct.  As a single person, unlikely to co-habit, and not wanting children I'd be happy with a one or two bedroom house.  There don't seem to be all that many of them.  Not interested in flats due to service charges, potential repair liabilities and neighbour issues.

[desiringonlychild]

4 hours ago, Armus said:

I'm not sure how common that attitude is but your general sentiment is correct.  As a single person, unlikely to co-habit, and not wanting children I'd be happy with a one or two bedroom house.  There don't seem to be all that many of them.  Not interested in flats due to service charges, potential repair liabilities and neighbour issues.

For me a 2 bed house with similar square footage is £200k more in my area. I think the money I save from not borrowing an extra £200k can go a long way to pay service charges! But that's just my view.

In London, what would be a good midway point is share of freehold maisonette and talk to the only other freeholder. If the person is sane, it could be a good deal. Usually have no service charges and you arrange repairs yourself. My husband despises conversions but I don't mind them. 

[desiringonlychild]

6 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

Sounds like you married a goodun!

I hope you are enjoying your small and not aspirational home in a nice area. 

it is, in my view, attitudes like the above that will eventually kill off the madness of inflated house prices.  When a significant portion of a generation decide to spend the minimum amount they can on housing, rather than maximise their debt levels in order to “keep up with the Jones’s”, then we will have experienced the correction.  Based upon most of the young people I know (who are very materialistic, especially in relation to housing), we still have a way to go… 

My generation expect the same houses as our parents had. That is the problem..completely different times and our parents were not taking on this kind of debt to service it. 

It's not so much about the perceived value of the housing, we could argue all day long on what price is too high (and it's region dependent). What is the most dangerous is young people buying the 4 bed house in a commuter town, having to commute to London at least 3 times a week and two cars..there is virtually no slag in that budget - the 4 bed house is not cheaper than a modest residence in London (in fact it's often more expensive) and you can't give up the car and often the commute. And it's all because their parents had the 4 bed house at their age....

Edited August 28, 2023 by desiringonlychild

[wighty]

21 hours ago, Sackboii said:

Same price as was last listed yes - reduced from the initial asking price.

Original asking price £225k

Reduced in June to £210k

Re-listed now for £210k

Seen a few re-lists at same price as the failed SSTC. 

Takes a couple of months for reality and a further reduction.

[Sackboii]

26 minutes ago, wighty said:

Seen a few re-lists at same price as the failed SSTC. 

Takes a couple of months for reality and a further reduction.

Well this might get interesting. A new for sale board went up this morning for the cottage next door but one. It’s not yet on Rightmove however.

So that’s two cottages now for sale on the same row (there are five cottages in total).

[staintunerider]

On 28/08/2023 at 16:25, wighty said:

Seen a few re-lists at same price as the failed SSTC. 

Takes a couple of months for reality and a further reduction.

I was over hearing a conversation between a really old boomer and a guy in my local...."ah so you've sold" "Yes" The long and short of this is he wants out of the Massive house as he's really frail...and wants to go do whatever he plans to do and wherever he plans to do it....

SSTC is not Sold......Exchange is commitment...completed is sold....and time and time again ...you hear its sold...no it isnt ...no wonder leasehold gets so many takers

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by staintunerider

[Saving For a Space Ship]

prop it all up again ...BREAKING: @hsbcuk to offer a 40 year mortgage - so it will last as long as a new undergraduate’s student loan debt! Welcome to 2023!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-launches-40-year-mortgage-first-time/

https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/1696844891962171767

 

On R4 the other day, some VI was rebranding the bank of mum & dad as 'the bank of family '  

‘Bank of family’ to help a record number of UK house buys this year https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/aug/28/bank-of-family-to-help-a-record-number-of-uk-house-buys-this-year

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Dames]

59 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

prop it all up again ...BREAKING: @hsbcuk to offer a 40 year mortgage - so it will last as long as a new undergraduate’s student loan debt! Welcome to 2023!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/hsbc-launches-40-year-mortgage-first-time/

Lol by the time you finished renting it from the bank and it's yours , it will be time to sell it to pay for your care home placement.

 

D  😁

[Sackboii]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:26 PM, Sackboii said:

Same price as was last listed yes - reduced from the initial asking price.

Original asking price £225k

Reduced in June to £210k

Re-listed now for £210k

I bumped into the aforementioned nosy-neighbour today and this cottage has apparently now had an offer of “5k less than they are prepared to accept”.

I don’t know what the figure offered is, but being 5k less than they are prepared to accept must mean it’s more than £5k less than asking price.

Seeing as said property last sold in June 2021 for £200k I am guessing the vendor wants £200k as a minimum (bricks and mortar only ever go up), therefore I suspect they’ve been offered £195k.

I may be wrong, we’ll see what happens next. It feels more real when it’s local to oneself.

[staintunerider]

On 01/09/2023 at 18:50, Sackboii said:

I bumped into the aforementioned nosy-neighbour today and this cottage has apparently now had an offer of “5k less than they are prepared to accept”.

I don’t know what the figure offered is, but being 5k less than they are prepared to accept must mean it’s more than £5k less than asking price.

Seeing as said property last sold in June 2021 for £200k I am guessing the vendor wants £200k as a minimum (bricks and mortar only ever go up), therefore I suspect they’ve been offered £195k.

I may be wrong, we’ll see what happens next. It feels more real when it’s local to oneself.

5k on a house is nothing...he's a fool if he lets a buyer in a good position slip away over 5k....there have been many examples of people chasing the market down.....the most amazing one was years ago about a woman in Northern Ireland who did this and then ended up in negative equity.....after several failed sales....she refused all the way down to adapt to the market and reduced offers....each and every time

[Barry78]

I never understood the postcode snobbery in London, a friend who is an administrator at a university will talk loudly about his flat minutes away from Hampstead heath, it is small and dingy, the 2nd bedroom was a boxroom had 2 kids crammed in it, refuses to sell and move because of the status which in his mind made him a university dean rather than an administrator

A lot of people try to live in areas they can't afford in overpriced boxes that are too expensive to impress people they don't like.

I am in the murky depths of south east London, 3 bed terraced mortgage free, garden and decent pub at the end of the road, my wife goes spinning with an index specialist and a doctor at the leisure centre, our daughter is starting at an outstanding school but my friend couldn't commit social suicide and move to our area.

People need to stop believing their own hype about how intelligent and important they are

[staintunerider]

2 hours ago, Barry78 said:

People need to stop believing their own hype about how intelligent and important they are

Well when their house prices were going up and their repayments going down they thought they were geniuses, when in fact they just happened to be in receipt of the benefits of govt policy...

Now house prices are going down(and its only just started) and their repayments are going up big fashion...they're a bit confused at suddenly finding themselves in an economic roachmotel...because they're geniuses ..they don;t fall for cockroach traps....do they ?

Most do not have even the slightest clue of the topics discussed on this site and elsewhere....so it's clear they are not geniuses.....more like College Idiots breaking into the zoo ..sedating a Silver back Gorilla and talking it back home for a laugh....except its now waking up and they don;t have any more sedatives....

 

[Sackboii]

10 hours ago, staintunerider said:

5k on a house is nothing...he's a fool if he lets a buyer in a good position slip away over 5k....there have been many examples of people chasing the market down.....the most amazing one was years ago about a woman in Northern Ireland who did this and then ended up in negative equity.....after several failed sales....she refused all the way down to adapt to the market and reduced offers....each and every time

They probably are fools especially since the other cottage came on the market at £50 cheaper this week.

My aforementioned nosy-neighbour gave me an update this afternoon. Quite how he gets to find this stuff out I don’t know, but as the village is akin to Midsomer and he likes tittle-tattle it’s useful nonetheless.

Basically a couple had booked in to view the first cottage next week and since the new cottage came on the market they are apparently viewing both at the same time. Not bad going for somewhere that’s been on the internet for little more than 3 days..

I eagerly await my next enthralling update!

[Armus]

Numbers of houses for sale in my town on Rightmove is now the highest I’ve seen for a while, certainly since the start of Covid in March 2020.

[Dames]

1 hour ago, Armus said:

Numbers of houses for sale in my town on Rightmove is now the highest I’ve seen for a while, certainly since the start of Covid in March 2020.

Yep my 3 mile radius is up around 60% since the whole truss thing.

 

D

[Sackboii]

On 9/3/2023 at 8:37 PM, Sackboii said:

Basically a couple had booked in to view the first cottage next week and since the new cottage came on the market they are apparently viewing both at the same time. Not bad going for somewhere that’s been on the internet for little more than 3 days..

Following these viewings, the first cottage has gone SSTC again. I’m surprised to be honest at the speed of it all. This place went on the market in April, sat there until June when it was reduced by 7% and went SSTC also in June. End of August it was back on the market after (I have since learned..) a bit of gazundering was attempted by the buyer.. The vendor apparently called their bluff, told them to sod off and put it back on the market. Five days later it’s SSTC again, different buyer.

🤔

[Sackboii]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:56 AM, Sackboii said:

Following these viewings, the first cottage has gone SSTC again. I’m surprised to be honest at the speed of it all. This place went on the market in April, sat there until June when it was reduced by 7% and went SSTC also in June. End of August it was back on the market after (I have since learned..) a bit of gazundering was attempted by the buyer.. The vendor apparently called their bluff, told them to sod off and put it back on the market. Five days later it’s SSTC again, different buyer.

🤔

Thought I’d update this. The aforementioned cottage did indeed sell, someone new moved in late last year. It’s just hit the land registry. Sold for exactly the same price in October 2023 is it did in June 2021.

[burk]

16 hours ago, Sackboii said:

Thought I’d update this. The aforementioned cottage did indeed sell, someone new moved in late last year. It’s just hit the land registry. Sold for exactly the same price in October 2023 is it did in June 2021.

The level of stubbornness on the part of the seller to accept reality is still off the charts though. Quite a few have been relisted from my lists of saved properties on RM but it's reductions like £5 - 10k on properties listed for £225 - £250k, just fiddling at the margins really.

The only ray of sunshine is one property in North Wales I've been watching for a year that's been up for sale for a couple of years was last listed for £325k before being taken off the market beginning of the year has now been relisted for £300k. 

We've still a long way to go I think....

 

[cdd]

I'm seeing some expected results, as well as a weird one.

Two identical layout 3 bed semi's on the market in the same area. One has been on the market since Jan 2023 at 300k, reduced by 10k to 290k in Jan 2024, still not sold.

The other came on the market a few months ago and undercut the 290k one, by 5k, priced at 285k.

I think both are overpriced by at least 20-30k, could probably get a buyer if they asked for 260-270k.

 

Here's the weird one:

There was a small 2 bed semi for sale at the top of a big hill, last august. It needed a lot of work done on it. It sold within days of going up for asking price of 250k.

The person who bought it is a landlord, and has spent a ton of money on it, adding a 3rd bedroom, full renovation, and complete rework of the front and back gardens.

I don't know how much he spent, but imagine it could be well over 50 grand. This would mean his cost of house+work done at over 300k.

Could have just bought the 3 bed semi's above for less.

 

He is now trying to rent it for £1800 a month. Going rate for a 3 bed semi is about £1150-1200 here. Pure greed. There's a nice large detached house up for rent for 1500 a month and that one isn't going either.

 

 

Edited April 26 by cdd