Electric cars will cost more to run than petrol from October

[Lagarde's Drift]

I might start retraining as a smart meter "reprogramming" specialist electrician. 😀

[Unmoderated]

20 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Up to a point Lord copper.  A lot of people only do 4-5000 miles pa.  With a 250 mile range EV that's 20 full charges a year.  They will only need to charge once every 2-3 weeks.

Sadly young knuckle draggers will see the cheap cost per mile (when electricity prices have eased) as enabling them to mince around pointlessly for hours on end listening to shite, increasing the load on the grid.  And there are a lot of knuckle draggers.  TBH it would be better all round to price them out of car ownership thereby reducing obesity, demand for NHS treatment and leaving roads clearer for non knuckle draggers.

I was hoping we'd get to £3/litre. That's keep the knuckle draggers off the road and especially the Vauxhall Mokka and Peugeot drivers out of the middle two lanes of most motorways. 

Might be an idea to have a weight scale built into the seat. If you're too fat the car wont start. Get out and walk lol. 

18 hours ago, kzb said:

It's funny how average mileage has gone down in recent years.  They used to say average mileage was 12,000 a year.  I can only think there are a lot more multi-vehicle households and more car-owning pensioners.  Then again I am now wondering how they calculate this average mileage.  It may be BS if it is based on survey data.

However, a great many workers will be doing a lot more miles, if they drive to work.  Where I work I bet the average drive to work is about 15 miles.  Some of them are coming from 50 miles away.

BTW who is Lord copper?

Makes sense. One car in a household would do a lot more miles than if both sides of the couple have their own car. Older people too. My grandparents didn't have cars at all really. Both grandad's did for a brief period but neither grandmas even had a licence. Mum has given up driving at 71 pretty much but dad still rolls about. 

I think people commute much less too these days. I live 6 miles drive from the office yet I only go in once or twice a month.

[Unmoderated]

1 hour ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

I might start retraining as a smart meter "reprogramming" specialist electrician. 😀

The Hyundai and Kia EVs have a 'point to load' system so you can charge up over night and then plug in a three point plug to run and extension cable off the battery and power your dishwasher, washing machine, air conditioner etc from the car. 77KWH battery is reasonably juicy though you'd only get about 7kw charging power with a new purpose fitted line to the house. Still, food for thought especially if it's leased... they only count mileage not charging cycles...... yet.

[Lagarde's Drift]

15 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

The Hyundai and Kia EVs have a 'point to load' system so you can charge up over night and then plug in a three point plug to run and extension cable off the battery and power your dishwasher, washing machine, air conditioner etc from the car. 77KWH battery is reasonably juicy though you'd only get about 7kw charging power with a new purpose fitted line to the house. Still, food for thought especially if it's leased... they only count mileage not charging cycles...... yet.

I was thinking more along the lines of, if you really need to run Ur tumble dryer at 5pm don't worry, call me and I'll "reprogram" Ur smart meter to make it think it was 2am. There's already an incentive to do this for octopus go.

Also I suspect calendar aging is more of a problem than charge cycles. Most car journeys right now are 5 miles or less. But plebs will keep topping up their cars daily. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Lagarde's Drift

[Confusion of VIs]

4 hours ago, PrincessNutNut said:

You need to read my previous post.

What relevance does that have to the future?

[markyh]

11 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

What relevance does that have to the future?

These people like to use the same arguement, "If nothing changes in the future we cant ............."  

So one day maybe over 150 years ago there was the Englands 1st ever electric power station.  Plenty said that will never work and replace Gas lighting / steam / coal power because that could never generate enough Power if everyone started to use electricity.  The power station would overload and burst into flames. 

We know how the story really turned out. It was fine the network grew, evolved and upgrade with need, use and population. 

Same will carry on with EV charging. Simples. 

[Confusion of VIs]

2 hours ago, markyh said:

These people like to use the same arguement, "If nothing changes in the future we cant ............."  

So one day maybe over 150 years ago there was the Englands 1st ever electric power station.  Plenty said that will never work and replace Gas lighting / steam / coal power because that could never generate enough Power if everyone started to use electricity.  The power station would overload and burst into flames. 

We know how the story really turned out. It was fine the network grew, evolved and upgrade with need, use and population. 

Same will carry on with EV charging. Simples. 

There does seem to a little band of posters who seem unable to grasp that we are moving on from the fossil fuel age to something much better. 

[MarkG]

7 hours ago, markyh said:

So one day maybe over 150 years ago there was the Englands 1st ever electric power station.  Plenty said that will never work and replace Gas lighting / steam / coal power because that could never generate enough Power if everyone started to use electricity.  The power station would overload and burst into flames. 

There were also people who said that petrol cars would never take off. Electric cars were much simpler and there was no need to get out and get dirty starting the engine with a handle when you wanted to drive.

[Chunketh]

12 hours ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

I was thinking more along the lines of, if you really need to run Ur tumble dryer at 5pm don't worry, call me and I'll "reprogram" Ur smart meter to make it think it was 2am. There's already an incentive to do this for octopus go.

Also I suspect calendar aging is more of a problem than charge cycles. Most car journeys right now are 5 miles or less. But plebs will keep topping up their cars daily. 

Alas I do not think that is possible.

[Chunketh]

18 hours ago, markyh said:

True, as we know with the right EV Octopus Agile already offer this way if charging. Just tell the app what level of charge you want and it will start and stop when leccy is the best rate late evening / overnight /early morning.  

I dont see of deniers can say this will never happen when it already exists. I notice new higher end Miele dishwashers come with Wifi and app control now too, so this tech is already filtering down to White goods appliances. 

Quite right.

how this will end up operating with white goods is a little unclear at the moment, but we already have a number of options available.

Rest assured, we are thinking about it. A lot.

[Lagarde's Drift]

5 hours ago, Chunketh said:

Alas I do not think that is possible.

Shows my tech knowledge! Care to explain it ? Like you would to a child.

[kzb]

22 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

There will be huge excess capacity because that's the cheapest way of implementing a renewables based grid. 

Around 3.5x the average load is estimated to be the sweet spot. 

NB offshore wind alone has a project pipeline approaching 90GW

Does that 90GW include the capacity factor for offshore wind?

[kzb]

6 hours ago, Chunketh said:

Quite right.

how this will end up operating with white goods is a little unclear at the moment, but we already have a number of options available.

Rest assured, we are thinking about it. A lot.

So are you involved professionally  in this area?

[kzb]

10 hours ago, MarkG said:

There were also people who said that petrol cars would never take off. Electric cars were much simpler and there was no need to get out and get dirty starting the engine with a handle when you wanted to drive.

I've said this on here before.  Electric cars actually pre-date petrol cars and there were lots in the early 1900's.  There were charging posts and the cars had ranges of 100 miles plus.  Yet they were outcompeted by ICE vehicles, despite them being difficult to start and unreliable at the time.

[kzb]

15 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

There does seem to a little band of posters who seem unable to grasp that we are moving on from the fossil fuel age to something much better. 

In those days we all benefitted.  "Progress" is now not such a good thing for the ordinary person.  It's all to extract more from the people, not to make our lives better.  We are livestock being farmed and that is becoming more and more obvious.

[kzb]

19 hours ago, Unmoderated said:

I was hoping we'd get to £3/litre. That's keep the knuckle draggers off the road and especially the Vauxhall Mokka and Peugeot drivers out of the middle two lanes of most motorways. 

Might be an idea to have a weight scale built into the seat. If you're too fat the car wont start. Get out and walk lol. 

Makes sense. One car in a household would do a lot more miles than if both sides of the couple have their own car. Older people too. My grandparents didn't have cars at all really. Both grandad's did for a brief period but neither grandmas even had a licence. Mum has given up driving at 71 pretty much but dad still rolls about. 

I think people commute much less too these days. I live 6 miles drive from the office yet I only go in once or twice a month.

With that 7,000 miles average, my inbuilt detector has started to hum just that little bit.  Not a full-on alarm but it is there.  I never questioned it before, but I am going to have to find out how it is generated.

[kzb]

On 09/09/2022 at 12:42, Chunketh said:

We already HAVE excess capacity. Why would this change?

Well do we, when they are threatening rationing in Europe?

Our generation capacity has been in decline for several years and that decline will continue as ageing nuclear stations are shut down in the coming few years.

In the future, "capacity" means something else.  It is only realised when the wind is blowing at the correct speed.  In low-wind periods, you will only be getting a few measly per cent of that capacity.  The low-wind periods can continue for days or even several weeks.

I've looked at Gridwatch just now, and it reports that wind is supplying 1.33GW.  What percentage of the wind nameplate capacity is that?  Bearing in mind that the biggest offshore windfarm in the world came online only last week?

[Chunketh]

2 hours ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

Shows my tech knowledge! Care to explain it ? Like you would to a child.

Meter is bound to a time server. The reading products are also time stamped and digitally signed. If you somehow managed to convince the meter that it was a different time the product would arrive out of sync and be rejected on the back end.

[Chunketh]

48 minutes ago, kzb said:

So are you involved professionally  in this area?

Yes.

[Lagarde's Drift]

6 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

Meter is bound to a time server. The reading products are also time stamped and digitally signed. If you somehow managed to convince the meter that it was a different time the product would arrive out of sync and be rejected on the back end.

Aren't they working on some sort of ancient 3g signal rather than home WiFi hence there can be interruptions in the stream of data? My smart meter stopped sending anything to the provider a few months after it was installed.

[Chunketh]

Just now, Lagarde's Drift said:

Aren't they working on some sort of ancient 3g signal rather than home WiFi hence there can be interruptions in the stream of data? My smart meter stopped sending anything to the provider a few months after it was installed.

Depends where you are in the country. The network is a mixture of different techs for historical reasons.

Home Wi-Fi cannot be used as it’s an untrusted connection. 

[Lagarde's Drift]

Just now, Chunketh said:

Depends where you are in the country. The network is a mixture of different techs for historical reasons.

Home Wi-Fi cannot be used as it’s an untrusted connection. 

So there is a weakness in that signals can be interrupted without raising suspicion. At least at the moment. Makes sense cos my smart meter sender thing is in a particularly dead phone area of the house. 

[Chunketh]

1 minute ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

So there is a weakness in that signals can be interrupted without raising suspicion. At least at the moment. Makes sense cos my smart meter sender thing is in a particularly dead phone area of the house. 

You can block the signal sure. That won’t help you impersonate the time server though. All time signals are digitally signed, so to impersonate it you would need the private key.

Bear in mind that the system was designed by Cheltenham and designed to thwart sophisticated nation state type attacks. I don’t want to talk your abilities down, but I suspect it would be beyond your skill level  

[Lagarde's Drift]

2 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

You can block the signal sure. That won’t help you impersonate the time server though. All time signals are digitally signed, so to impersonate it you would need the private key.

Bear in mind that the system was designed by Cheltenham and designed to thwart sophisticated nation state type attacks. I don’t want to talk your abilities down, but I suspect it would be beyond your skill level  

Ah so crypto level encryption for a Billy basic meter, who knew. My electrical knowledge can be summed up as putting your tongue in between a 9v battery is kinda fun. Kinda.

[Chunketh]

1 minute ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

Ah so crypto level encryption for a Billy basic meter, who knew. My electrical knowledge can be summed up as putting your tongue in between a 9v battery is kinda fun. Kinda.

yeah it’s a solid system. It’s also why when people say the government can read all the traffic they are talking ********.

The only people that can read your meter is the supplier. Nobody else in the chain can.