Mikhail Liebenstein Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just heard that Little Britain is being banned from streaming services over various sensitivities, including racial ones over blacking up. Whilst I wouldn't support actors doing that now, I do have a problem with retrospective and unnecessary impractical censorship. Erasing mistakes from history is the quickest way to ensure they are repeated and prevents informing debate. I still have a copy of Spy Catcher at home that I acquired as a child via a relative in US. My newly ordered copy of the Little Britain Box Set can now sit proudly next to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odakyu-sen Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 The air-brushing, censorship, and editing of history is not a good thing. It reminds me of an old joke. An American and a Soviet Russian were having lunch together. The American comments, "in my country, the past is known but the future is unknown." The Soviet replies, "Comrade, in my country it is the opposite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Matt Lucas decried Little Britain as "cruel" in recent years and it went downhill fast after its first season (with one note, crude caricatures), but we're treading on thin ice when we start arbitrarly erasing entertainment because it's deemed somehow harmful to people (and we don't know what will happen next). It's getting disconcerting we're having shows and movies from only less than 20 years ago deemed offensive and out of synch to the present day status-quo. BTW, we have DVD sales of Little Britain going through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, Big Orange said: Matt Lucas decried Little Britain as "cruel" in recent years and it went downhill fast after its first season (with one note, crude caricatures), but we're treading on thin ice when we start arbitrarly erasing entertainment because it's deemed somehow harmful to people (and we don't know what will happen next). It's getting disconcerting we're having shows and movies from only less than 20 years ago deemed offensive and out of synch to the present day status-quo. BTW, we have DVD sales of Little Britain going through the roof. Yes, unsurprising. I bought one just out of protest, though always preferred League of Gentlemen - even more grotesque! Sky commentators saying amazing this show was only made 17 years ago and how things change. I think the show was more about the grotesque than stereotyping and actually at the time I recall it was considered as challenging opinions by playing back people's wrong opinions to them. Most of the modern objection seems to relate to blacking up, and whilst actors certainly shouldn't do it now, I think it is fine in the context of history and people should understand it is in the past and should remain there. #NoToCensorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 retrospective erasure of Jim Davidson could be tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Most of the modern objection seems to relate to blacking up, and whilst actors certainly shouldn't do it now, I think it is fine in the context of history and people should understand it is in the past and should remain there. #NoToCensorship Well Walliams and Lucas playing ethnic characters (through ethnic make up) only happened 10-ish to 15-ish years ago and it seemed too uncomfortable then - I know they were aiming at being edgy/meta/ironic, but you get few people lacking in humour and nuance than extreme end PC people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Never thought much of Little Britain in the first place, although not for these reasons and I find most of the crying about it and similar incredibly immature. Perhaps I'll start paying a little bit of attention to the PC brigade when they demonstrate that they're capable of applying brains instead of comparing things against an arbitrary ticklist they've been given of offensive things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Riedquat said: Never thought much of Little Britain in the first place, although not for these reasons and I find most of the crying about it and similar incredibly immature. Perhaps I'll start paying a little bit of attention to the PC brigade when they demonstrate that they're capable of applying brains instead of comparing things against an arbitrary ticklist they've been given of offensive things. Not just the PC Brigade, but also extremists of the "opposite" view. So the communists wish to ban the fascists and visa versa. Both align with the authoritarians though. I am libertarian and pro free speech and free thought . I would never dream of Banning Mein Kampf, Mao's Little Red Book, or the Foundations of Leninism by Joseph Stalin or even The Truth about Bill Gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Not just the PC Brigade, but also extremists of the "opposite" view. So the communists wish to ban the fascists and visa versa. Both align with the authoritarians though. I am libertarian and pro free speech and free thought . I would never dream of Banning Mein Kampf, Mao's Little Red Book, or the Foundations of Leninism by Joseph Stalin or even The Truth about Bill Gates. Amen to that. I know I've thoroughly disagreed with your views on certain subjects (OK not ones that should be as polarising as this - we're not talking about real oppression) but I'd rather get p1ssed off with people when I find their opinions unpleasant than have them shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simhadri Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 On 09/06/2020 at 20:31, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Just heard that Little Britain is being banned from streaming services over various sensitivities, including racial ones over blacking up. Whilst I wouldn't support actors doing that now, I do have a problem with retrospective and unnecessary impractical censorship. Erasing mistakes from history is the quickest way to ensure they are repeated and prevents informing debate. I still have a copy of Spy Catcher at home that I acquired as a child via a relative in US. My newly ordered copy of the Little Britain Box Set can now sit proudly next to it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Amen to that. I know I've thoroughly disagreed with your views on certain subjects (OK not ones that should be as polarising as this - we're not talking about real oppression) but I'd rather get p1ssed off with people when I find their opinions unpleasant than have them shut up. I enjoy a rigorous debate and have always taken counter arguments not as insults (not saying you've made any insults) but effectively as compliments. Seriously you can pretty much call me anything you like and I won't get offended. People have even commented on that in real life. Even at school it would take quite a few punches in my face to actually get me annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Militant movements can quickly become insufferably sanctimonious and sensitive to the point of narcissism (so they impulsively lash out at satirical entertainment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 The whole issue about blacking up is rather silly anyway - it shouldn't be any worse than dying hair, and wouldn't be in a society that isn't still hung up about race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 17/06/2020 at 09:45, Riedquat said: The whole issue about blacking up is rather silly anyway - it shouldn't be any worse than dying hair, and wouldn't be in a society that isn't still hung up about race. The 1990s/2000s comedy shows and movies had characters "black up" (or "white up") because it has a taboo to it, largely because of the more immature, less self-aware Minstrel performances from earlier eras (that were more rooted in genuine racism). Little Britain, White Chicks and Tropic Thunder, etc, were more self-aware and meta about it, adding to the nervous laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Aaaaaand now the cretins in the US have now declared that white voice actors for black characters should no longer be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 28/06/2020 at 03:08, Big Orange said: Aaaaaand now the cretins in the US have now declared that white voice actors for black characters should no longer be allowed. Hope they don't have any brunette actors voicing blond characters! Incidentally is the other way around still OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I’m not black so I can’t comment on how hurtful any of these performances are, or if their deletion serves to fix anything. It seems an easy out, to just delete an episode instead of questioning why there weren’t enough black people on set that week. Because one thing that mostly stops racist jokes, (not misogynist jokes, those continue), homophobic or anti semitic jokes etc is having victims in the room in positions of power. I’ve taken an interest in the new ‘cancelling’ of JK Rowling recently. I read her essay and there was simply nothing problematic in it, and yet she faces a torrent of abuse, rape and death threats every day online. Just because she stated that transwomen are not women and single sexual spaces have a reason for existing. It’s insane how deranged these anime keyboard warriors are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 41 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: I’m not black so I can’t comment on how hurtful any of these performances are, or if their deletion serves to fix anything. It seems an easy out, to just delete an episode instead of questioning why there weren’t enough black people on set that week. Because one thing that mostly stops racist jokes, (not misogynist jokes, those continue), homophobic or anti semitic jokes etc is having victims in the room in positions of power. I’ve taken an interest in the new ‘cancelling’ of JK Rowling recently. I read her essay and there was simply nothing problematic in it, and yet she faces a torrent of abuse, rape and death threats every day online. Just because she stated that transwomen are not women and single sexual spaces have a reason for existing. It’s insane how deranged these anime keyboard warriors are. according to dianne abbott these guys are waaaaaaycist!...I would say they have been on these islands for quite a few thousand years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, oracle said: according to dianne abbott these guys are waaaaaaycist!...I would say they have been on these islands for quite a few thousand years (ps, this is padstow mummers for those not familiar with folk festivals)..the practice is ancient, well established for millenia before we have even heard of africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, oracle said: (ps, this is padstow mummers for those not familiar with folk festivals)..the practice is ancient, well established for millenia before we have even heard of africa Africa’s been around for millennia... DA is hardly Condoleezza Rice (ie a concert pianist who speaks Russian ?) but she’s entitled to her opinion. I don’t hold with this shutting down of debate really. Honestly if I had any black friends I’d just listen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 So what are peoples thoughts on David Starkey? Exercising his free speech or rightfully captured and put back in his Jurassic park enclosure? https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jul/03/david-starkey-dropped-publisher-racist-remarks-harpercollins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 4 hours ago, smash said: So what are peoples thoughts on David Starkey? Exercising his free speech or rightfully captured and put back in his Jurassic park enclosure? https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jul/03/david-starkey-dropped-publisher-racist-remarks-harpercollins He’s 75 ffs. I’d be more surprised if he wasn’t racist. Anyone bothering to talk to Darren Grimes should be forced to retire anyway. Smarmy scrote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, PeanutButter said: He’s 75 ffs. I’d be more surprised if he wasn’t racist. Anyone bothering to talk to Darren Grimes should be forced to retire anyway. Smarmy scrote Indeed. Whats really gets my goat is that this doddery old fecker has been a regular on BBC political shows and writing articles for the Daily Wail and Torygraoh going back decades, acting as a custodian of the status quo and stifling social change at every opportunity. Can you imagine if, when he's on the panel of Question Time, a member of the audience had temerity to suggest a question about Britain's colonial past, his guffawing "You'll never have an honorary position at Cambridge or be a historian...." That is essentially what this dinosaur has been doing for years and years. Even Darren Grimes has been invited onto BBC political programmes (Politics Live I think) and yet there's still no end of people who think that the BBC is brainwashing them with "woke". Its almost like a special episode of Del and Rodney stumbling into Jurassic Park via Peckham market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 03/07/2020 at 16:24, smash said: So what are peoples thoughts on David Starkey? Exercising his free speech or rightfully captured and put back in his Jurassic park enclosure? https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jul/03/david-starkey-dropped-publisher-racist-remarks-harpercollins What exactly is racist about what he said (or at least the bit quoted)? I suppose "damn blacks" was the bit they're grumbling about although I initially read the "damn" as an emphasis on the number, which is a way of speaking that doesn't necessarily mean a negative ("The pub's offering damn free drinks! Yay!") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Riedquat said: What exactly is racist about what he said (or at least the bit quoted)? I suppose "damn blacks" was the bit they're grumbling about although I initially read the "damn" as an emphasis on the number, which is a way of speaking that doesn't necessarily mean a negative ("The pub's offering damn free drinks! Yay!") You think so? I see it as a total mask slipping moment not just with his glib use of "damn blacks" but also ideas of what constitutes genocide. Would he say that the Holocaust didn't happen because there are Jewish people about or, for the same reason, the Armenian genocide shouldn't be described as such. This dinosaur has been in our media and on the tables at Waterstones for decades getting a free pass and providing a lens with which we should view history. Anyway he's gone now, no more appearing on the BBC, no more books and no more honourary positions at prestigious universities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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