Biggest annual drop in car sales since 2009

[malk]

7 hours ago, winkie said:

Would happily ditch the car if there was a train, a viable train to use, or other value for money transport service that gets you to the train terminal.......no I don't want to rent an electric car or use a pay to drive rent the road system.......

Owning outright a economic, comfortable, clean, reliable, low insurance/tax and service cost, has to be the best and cheapest way to get from a to b.......at the moment......am sure they will manipulate it so as to force people to change the way they do things if it means more can be made from them, we are only consumers afterall.

1

Disagree with the big I bolded. I'd love to not have a car but have access to pay per use, electric, self-drive vehicles. Even better if they were nationalised! The state builds/procures the requisite amount of purpose-built self-drive vehicles, I have an app that sends one of the right type to me when I need it and takes me on my merry way. No fuel cost, no repairs, no servicing, no insurance, no tax, no having to hire a van when I need one. This can't happen soon enough!

What narks me is that we could have it in a few years but it'll end up being over a decade and probably both not fit for purpose and expensive. Well, except the purpose will be to enrich further some arseholes, it'll be very good at that.

[winkie]

My fears will be once people have to rent the roads, pay-as-you-go they have lost control over movement and the freedom to roam.......rents can and do go up at will, see recent train fare increases over and above inflation.....toll bridges, congestion charges......car parks.......many can't afford to travel by cab......many more may be priced out of transport/travel.

[chronyx]

1 hour ago, malk said:

Disagree with the big I bolded. I'd love to not have a car but have access to pay per use, electric, self-drive vehicles. Even better if they were nationalised! The state builds/procures the requisite amount of purpose-built self-drive vehicles, I have an app that sends one of the right type to me when I need it and takes me on my merry way. No fuel cost, no repairs, no servicing, no insurance, no tax, no having to hire a van when I need one. This can't happen soon enough!

What narks me is that we could have it in a few years but it'll end up being over a decade and probably both not fit for purpose and expensive. Well, except the purpose will be to enrich further some arseholes, it'll be very good at that.

If i don't want The State knowing where I've been so easily all i have to do is leave my mobile at home. 

Massive privacy concerns there

[jimmy2x3]

48 minutes ago, winkie said:

My fears will be once people have to rent the roads, pay-as-you-go they have lost control over movement and the freedom to roam.......rents can and do go up at will, see recent train fare increases over and above inflation.....toll bridges, congestion charges......car parks.......many can't afford to travel by cab......many more may be priced out of transport/travel.

Time to just sit in the house, crack open a beer and tell the government to p*&ss off. i believe for many we have allready reached the "just not worth it" threshold. and of those still thinking hard work, knuckle down, get educated, gets you somewhere in life well most are in for a big shock. im 47 now, ive worked all my life never ever signed on the dole earned decent money too mostly self employed never minimum wage. but you know what? im no better off than most that just sat on their **** time i paid my rent and council tax and ran vehicles for work and paid my taxes.

i now realise a lot of it is sheer luck and circumstance, like my brother and his gf popped out a kid at 17 at 23 bought the council house he got because he had a kid. set him up for life. me while i had to sit in private rent with no nice council house to buy. ive squirreled away a fair bit of cash now and have decided on my 50th birthday im buying france, ireland, eastern europe or somewhere for cash. where you can still buy a house from actually working like it used to be in britain. and im out of here. work 6 months, go fishing and drinking and sitting on my **** the other 5 months.  im not going to play the game anymore, those with government pensions have had all they are going get from me, i have no pension. im finished im out.  which is why im actually past caring what happens to house prices. 

[nnails]

On 05/01/2018 at 1:54 PM, reddog said:

One interesting piece of data is that Vauxhall sold 22% fewer cars than the previous year. (I doubt the previous year was a vintage for Vauxhall!)

 

Only ~4000 more Vauxhall Astra's where sold than Mercedes C class (49,370 Vs 45,912)

I had vauxall 10 years ago. Sold not go near another

[malk]

5 hours ago, chronyx said:

If i don't want The State knowing where I've been so easily all i have to do is leave my mobile at home. 

Massive privacy concerns there

With the amount of cctv we have combined with number plate recognition I suspect it isn't as easy as you think. I'm more concerned than the average person about privacy but think that for lay people we're past the point of no return for trying to keep things private, certainly online etc. My focus would be on putting in robust policy to protect data. If it is made clear that it's illegal to surveil from such a system and ruin anyone who does so, well that'd give me some small measure of hope.

6 hours ago, winkie said:

My fears will be once people have to rent the roads, pay-as-you-go they have lost control over movement and the freedom to roam.......rents can and do go up at will, see recent train fare increases over and above inflation.....toll bridges, congestion charges......car parks.......many can't afford to travel by cab......many more may be priced out of transport/travel.

With an electric driverless system, the maintenance costs are tiny in comparison to ICE vehicles and I believe electricity could be abundant relatively soon with the development of renewables. I don't see any practical reasons why it wouldn't be a huge cost saver. Of course corrupt crony capitalism could make it incredibly expensive but plus ca change.

[Fletcher]

16 hours ago, zilly said:

Well unfortunately, if you want to live in what we call a first-world country with the democratic infrastructure that requires, then you need to pay for that.

And people in Britain - exactly like the USA - demand top-class services but refuse to pay the tax in order to fund them (incidentally before the libertarians descend, there are no statistics whatsoever to prove that the private sector is less wasteful than the public sector...).

So given that - the only solution really  is to keep notching up the debt. Or watch the roads crumble even further, witness [even] fewer police on the street etc. etc.

The 'other people's money' theme really is old now - but no-one who quotes it ever provides any solution as to how you fund the maintenance of a country's infrastructure  without taxation...'cos private corporations or billionaires sure as hell aren't going to do it...

Ha ha, nice try. There are so many egregious wastes of cash running into the billions that have scant connection with "provision of services commensurate with living in a first world country" as you might put it. Just this week I heard that because of the CAP, farmers are paid billions to do nothing with their land. Is that something that "people" want because, yeah, that's what it means to live in a first world country, innit? Paying farmers with OPM to do nowt.  There are probably countless other examples that we don't even know of, unless and until some paper or other brings them to our attention (cash for ash in NI, another fine example of spending OPM), or which over the years have been brought to our attention but which we try to forget to ease the pain of living. But those that we do know of: Flogging off tens of thousands of homes (RTB) for less than market value (yuck) then paying housing benefit to private landlords for what was once owned by the state (double yuck). Tax credits (we pay you not to work full time!). Child tax credits (babies mean benefits! Child benefit should not be the end of it!). Pension credit (gotta look after those who actually bother to go out and vote..and vote Tory!). Free bus travel for pensioners (ditto!). 4% savings bonds for pensioners (ditto!). Net payments over 12bn/yr to the EU (yuck). Overseas aid of 0.7% of national income (yuck). Gold plated final salary public sector pensions (nice to have, eh).  Rent a room scheme tax free income. Undeclared landlord income. Underpaid corporation tax. Tax avoidance.  Personal tax threshold of nearly 12k. Now I understand that there are doubtless many hereabouts who think many of these are Good Things. Each of us is entitled to his view. But then like I say, it's nice when Other People pay for stuff, innit. 

Oh, and btw the biggest consumer of the welfare state budget is the pensions bill, some kind of sacred cow despite the fact that pensioners are the wealthiest cohort in society by miles, and have more disposable income than working people, and will live in retirement on average for the best part of two decades. Not quite what they were four decades ago when the reverse was true. Hasn't really got anything to do with crumbling roads, though. Gotta pay for dem crumbling roads. We do want to live in a first world country, don't we?

[BorrowToLeech]

8 hours ago, malk said:

With an electric driverless system, the maintenance costs are tiny in comparison to ICE vehicles and I believe electricity could be abundant relatively soon with the development of renewables. I don't see any practical reasons why it wouldn't be a huge cost saver.

The danger is pay-as-you-go roads.  

Renting roads involves an element of landlording and the potential for monopoly, which means the owners charging what they want, unconstrained by competition. 

Roads should always be collectively owned, in some fashion, they a public good. 

Leasing cars is different, as there is no economic rent (effectively private sector taxes) involved and competition will bring the price in line with the costs.  

[TiredOfMagnolia]

18 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

Time to just sit in the house, crack open a beer and tell the government to p*&ss off. i believe for many we have allready reached the "just not worth it" threshold. and of those still thinking hard work, knuckle down, get educated, gets you somewhere in life well most are in for a big shock. im 47 now, ive worked all my life never ever signed on the dole earned decent money too mostly self employed never minimum wage. but you know what? im no better off than most that just sat on their **** time i paid my rent and council tax and ran vehicles for work and paid my taxes.

i now realise a lot of it is sheer luck and circumstance, like my brother and his gf popped out a kid at 17 at 23 bought the council house he got because he had a kid. set him up for life. me while i had to sit in private rent with no nice council house to buy. ive squirreled away a fair bit of cash now and have decided on my 50th birthday im buying france, ireland, eastern europe or somewhere for cash. where you can still buy a house from actually working like it used to be in britain. and im out of here. work 6 months, go fishing and drinking and sitting on my **** the other 5 months.  im not going to play the game anymore, those with government pensions have had all they are going get from me, i have no pension. im finished im out.  which is why im actually past caring what happens to house prices. 

Almost identical to my situation and views, I'm 48 and I shall be doing the same. No point in trying to play catch up in a rigged game that rewards the feckless.

[ARIMA]

20 hours ago, winkie said:

...did change a battery and charging port of tablet that is still going strong, opened the back carefully with a stanley blade, the sealed authentic lithium battery cost a fiver and the new charging port about three quid.....everything you need to know, full instructions on utube .....a better person may well have binned it.......can only but try while still able.

Nice - was it an iPad? They are glued.

[Hectors House]

9 hours ago, BuyToLeech said:

The danger is pay-as-you-go roads.  

Renting roads involves an element of landlording and the potential for monopoly, which means the owners charging what they want, unconstrained by competition. 

Roads should always be collectively owned, in some fashion, they a public good. 

Leasing cars is different, as there is no economic rent (effectively private sector taxes) involved and competition will bring the price in line with the costs.  

Why do you think Highways England is being proposed for sale by the current Government? A cash cow for rich Tory supporters!

[Fence]

On 06/01/2018 at 6:00 PM, winkie said:

...did change a battery and charging port of tablet that is still going strong, opened the back carefully with a stanley blade, the sealed authentic lithium battery cost a fiver and the new charging port about three quid.....everything you need to know, full instructions on utube .....a better person may well have binned it.......can only but try while still able.

There was a bit of noise last year in the media about these pop-ups where you could take items to be repaired by people who loved the challenge.  A bit like Antiques Roadshow except you leave with something reconditioned!  Had a couple near us.  Great idea.  Maybe we'll see these again both out of necessity and 'cause of an itch in our two fingers!

[Fence]

On 07/01/2018 at 9:50 AM, BuyToLeech said:

The danger is pay-as-you-go roads.  

Renting roads involves an element of landlording and the potential for monopoly, which means the owners charging what they want, unconstrained by competition. 

.......

 

The Rentiers Song

Rent rent glorious rent

Nothing quite like it, all monies get spent

So borrow thee borrow, down to your sorrow

And then let me wallow in glorious rent

 

 

[PopGun]

On 05/01/2018 at 11:21 AM, Social Justice League said:

100% agree.  The sickening need to keep on producing more rubbish to keep zombie companies afloat is a disgrace.

Happily the wheels are coming off now, as without easy credit, practically no one can afford their consumerist "Lifestyle".

It’s over production peddled as growth. Yet more debt/consuming is required to pull the elastic further. Seem to be getting to the point where there’s too much goods. Yet you slow down production then you reduce the power of people to consume via the lack of wage/labour.

Tail eating snake.

[PopGun]

On 06/01/2018 at 7:44 PM, nnails said:

I had vauxall 10 years ago. Sold not go near another

Had an 2011 Astra diesel. Not the most refined but solid car, nice to drive with good handling and decent tourque. Apart from the gear box I had no compliants. They’ve upped their game massively from the Nova days.

Massive car snobbery around these days, thanks largely to company car and PCP leases.

 

[iamnumerate]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, adarmo said:

For balance, third best year this decade and sixth best year on record.

If this kept falling and let's say a small recession followed do we think the government would start pushing out funding for lending and giving out all sorts of scrappage schemes again?

Well spotted

[iamnumerate]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, adarmo said:

For balance, third best year this decade and sixth best year on record.

If this kept falling and let's say a small recession followed do we think the government would start pushing out funding for lending and giving out all sorts of scrappage schemes again?

Well spotted

[iamnumerate]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, adarmo said:

For balance, third best year this decade and sixth best year on record.

If this kept falling and let's say a small recession followed do we think the government would start pushing out funding for lending and giving out all sorts of scrappage schemes again?

Well spotted

[iamnumerate]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, adarmo said:

For balance, third best year this decade and sixth best year on record.

If this kept falling and let's say a small recession followed do we think the government would start pushing out funding for lending and giving out all sorts of scrappage schemes again?

Well spotted

[iamnumerate]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, adarmo said:

For balance, third best year this decade and sixth best year on record.

If this kept falling and let's say a small recession followed do we think the government would start pushing out funding for lending and giving out all sorts of scrappage schemes again?

Well spotted

[iamnumerate]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, adarmo said:

For balance, third best year this decade and sixth best year on record.

If this kept falling and let's say a small recession followed do we think the government would start pushing out funding for lending and giving out all sorts of scrappage schemes again?

Well spotted

[winkie]

15 hours ago, Fence said:

There was a bit of noise last year in the media about these pop-ups where you could take items to be repaired by people who loved the challenge.  A bit like Antiques Roadshow except you leave with something reconditioned!  Had a couple near us.  Great idea.  Maybe we'll see these again both out of necessity and 'cause of an itch in our two fingers!

Well I think it is a great idea.....you sew my curtains, fix your car, I'll bake you a cake, teach you guitar......but maybe that will become more popular later when things become tighter, the swapping of skills and talents, no money passes hands......having said that it does happen now, in many different ways already.

[simonj]

On 1/6/2018 at 7:41 PM, jimmy2x3 said:

Time to just sit in the house, crack open a beer and tell the government to p*&ss off. i believe for many we have allready reached the "just not worth it" threshold. and of those still thinking hard work, knuckle down, get educated, gets you somewhere in life well most are in for a big shock. im 47 now, ive worked all my life never ever signed on the dole earned decent money too mostly self employed never minimum wage. but you know what? im no better off than most that just sat on their **** time i paid my rent and council tax and ran vehicles for work and paid my taxes.

i now realise a lot of it is sheer luck and circumstance, like my brother and his gf popped out a kid at 17 at 23 bought the council house he got because he had a kid. set him up for life. me while i had to sit in private rent with no nice council house to buy. ive squirreled away a fair bit of cash now and have decided on my 50th birthday im buying france, ireland, eastern europe or somewhere for cash. where you can still buy a house from actually working like it used to be in britain. and im out of here. work 6 months, go fishing and drinking and sitting on my **** the other 5 months.  im not going to play the game anymore, those with government pensions have had all they are going get from me, i have no pension. im finished im out.  which is why im actually past caring what happens to house prices. 

Couldn't agree more. Am in mid-forties and grew up with a strong work ethic - always work hard, be loyal, help colleagues etc. Took me too long to realise that the social contract was broken. Been in too many jobs where working hard amongst the lazy plebs just gets you hated. Never been able to suck up to incompetent tw**s so never got promoted. Was always too handy where I was. Left my last 'proper' job in 2016 and vowed never to repeat the experience again unless no choice. Been working from home for below tax threshold. Get to watch the plebs across the road breeding and living in 3/4 bed houses. No one works. It's a joke tbh. My wife enjoys her job but will go down to a 3 day week soon. No kids, which makes all the difference. Living frugally actually makes us happier. Good on you.

[Fence]

4 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Well spotted

I'm beginning to see spots!

 

[Fence]

3 hours ago, winkie said:

Well I think it is a great idea.....you sew my curtains, fix your car, I'll bake you a cake, teach you guitar......but maybe that will become more popular later when things become tighter, the swapping of skills and talents, no money passes hands......having said that it does happen now, in many different ways already.

Funny recollection when I moved to the country from town and met the locals.  I invited them round for drinks and they asked "what do you do".  I told them my city job and I might as well have farted judging by the looks of total disinterest and incomprehension.  I imagine thoughts of "naff all use then".  Umpteen years later and several reskills after, that's me too.  A great grounding.  It's like the old days....Tom the brickie..... Matty the drain man....Lisa the shearer...and so on.