19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, kzb said: In the future, the EU will have with many similarities to the old Eastern bloc. A fenced-in grey blot on the surface of the planet. Democracy in name only. Bilateral trade deals should be more advantageous to UK also. World food prices are below what we pay in EU. The EU sets quotas to keep prices up. There are large potential gains to be made here, if it is done correctly. Single market rules forbid state help for industries (but not of course for the financial sector or rich landowners). Corbyn is only permitted to implement his agenda outside the single market. FoM has suppressed wages, increased benefits spending and broken state services. Yes I know we could've done something about it whilst in EU. But the elites finally seem to have got the message as a result of the Brexit vote. The problem is not the destination but the transition towards it and making sure these things are done in a way advantageous to the population. These are where it could go wrong. If certain posters actually gave a shit about the people who live in this country rather than their castles in the sky, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Just now, EmmaRoid said: If certain posters actually gave a shit about the people who live in this country rather than their castles in the sky, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I think we're in danger of going the full tin foil hat today aren't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: I think we're in danger of going the full tin foil hat today aren't we? Your fashion choices are of no interest to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, kzb said: In the future, the EU will have with many similarities to the old Eastern bloc. A fenced-in grey blot on the surface of the planet. Democracy in name only. Bilateral trade deals should be more advantageous to UK also. World food prices are below what we pay in EU. The EU sets quotas to keep prices up. There are large potential gains to be made here, if it is done correctly. Single market rules forbid state help for industries (but not of course for the financial sector or rich landowners). Corbyn is only permitted to implement his agenda outside the single market. FoM has suppressed wages, increased benefits spending and broken state services. Yes I know we could've done something about it whilst in EU. But the elites finally seem to have got the message as a result of the Brexit vote. The problem is not the destination but the transition towards it and making sure these things are done in a way advantageous to the population. These are where it could go wrong. Thanks for responding. So your first point is that the EU will sink into some kind of soviet hellhole governed by an untouchable elite. I just don't understand this point of view, the EU is made up of many different countries with different political views and is probably the most prosperous area on the planet. On the second point we have to balance the cheaper prices against the safety of the produce and the robustness of the farming industry. The world is full of examples of economies exposed to the free market who have destroyed agriculture due to cheap imports. Food is cheap here anyway, certainly compared to other western european countries. If you support state-aid (and given your wish for free trade deals it would be a contradiction) then fine, but there is nothing proposed by Corbyn that the EU would ban according to this article http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/myth-corbyn-labour-eu-1-5215840 The problem with state aid, and membership of something like the WTO is that the likes of the US can challenge it (see Bombardier) and we are answerable to supra national courts. This time without EU backing. Is there evidence FoM has suppressed wages overall? https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/may/11/eu-migrants-had-no-negative-effect-on-uk-wages-says-lse I'd say the free movement of capital was far more of a problem than Labour. It can't be right for companies to operate here but claim everything is routed through low tax areas. At least local workers pay tax into the system, and more than they cost according to every study I can find. But what is the end point? Is it a socialist country (like lots of EU members) or Singapore (as the very pro-Brexit, pie in the sky freetraders) want? Put any of the end destinations to the public and I suspect the status quo would win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 26 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Oh my, the funniest thing is you're posting all of this, after your last comment... Comic timing indeed. Give Emma a break, she's a leave supporter - cognitive dissonance is her daily bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Just now, Futuroid said: Give Emma a break, she's a leave supporter - cognitive dissonance is her daily bread. Making the most of it before the UK regresses into a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, kzb said: In the future, the EU will have with many similarities to the old Eastern bloc. Says you. Ironically, it's the original Eastern bloc - mutha Russia - who desperately wants to break up the EU. I can't imagine how disempowering it must be to not only be an ex-superpower, but to also not even be the biggest power in Europe any more. Imagine how desperate Vlad and his twitter bots will be when the EU starts getting it's own military capability! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 minute ago, EmmaRoid said: Making the most of it before the UK regresses into a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch. Before... Very droll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 34 minutes ago, EmmaRoid said: The working classes are revolting because the middle classes are revolting. You reap what you sow, mofos. Brexit is class war? Bit of an escalation innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Futuroid said: Says you. Ironically, it's the original Eastern bloc - mutha Russia - who desperately wants to break up the EU. I can't imagine how disempowering it must be to not only be an ex-superpower, but to also not even be the biggest power in Europe any more. Imagine how desperate Vlad and his twitter bots will be when the EU starts getting it's own military capability! EU with guns. That’s your wet dream isn’t it? Sending innocents off to be killed. Power corrupts, absolute power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 minute ago, smash said: Brexit is class war? Bit of an escalation innit? How else would you describe it? Civil war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Just now, EmmaRoid said: How else would you describe it? Civil war? Well it would never get that far, as Brits aren't like the French, they'd get angry, mention it to a friend over a biscuit, get a bit sniffy about it in a letter to the local paper then meekly lie down and take it. It's the English way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, smash said: Brexit is class war? Bit of an escalation innit? It's the upper class taking back control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapori Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: An insight that was pretty comprehensively debunked up thread, someone even posted a copy of the pamphlet sent by the vote No campaign warning that it was a political project. Are you saying it's not a political project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapori Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Futuroid said: It's the upper class taking back control. I know, those Northern idiots voting out. Why are they even allowed to vote? They didn't even know about everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, Up the spout said: I can't say for certain whether immigration from the rest of the world will increase, but I'm pretty sure we'll have the ability to control immigration better. If you look at countries like Oz, Canada, NZ etc. they have strict controls on immigration. You can only live there if you pass those strict controls, we could* do that if the political will was evident, outside of the EU. Inside we can't. *Not saying which ever shit shower of incompetents in government would do this as it seems too sensible. Am happy to be corrected on the above. Time will tell but when asked the government was unable to identify a single business area where the cuts would fall. On the contrary they have reassured just about every business area that they will still be able to recruit the foreign workers they need. Responding to falling interest from EU citizens, the NHS has already started switching the focus of its recruitment efforts to non EU (mainly mid/far Eastern) states. In my wife's NHS trust they have halved their EU recruitment budget and tripled their non EU budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, EmmaRoid said: EU with guns. That’s your wet dream isn’t it? Sending innocents off to be killed. Power corrupts, absolute power... In case you forgot, the EU is a union of 27.5 nations. They already have guns. Their armed forces collaborate together already. It's called NATO and the Big Orange Pres is upset they aren't paying enough to defend themselves, so theoretically he and his ilk will be ****-a-hoop when they start forming their own military power base to rival the US. Mind you, the UK would never get involved in foreign wars that didn't threaten it and send innocents off to be killed. No sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tapori said: I know, those Northern idiots voting out. Why are they even allowed to vote? They didn't even know about everything. Jacob Rees Mogg for PM ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tapori said: Are you saying it's not a political project? Of course it's a political project. Economics overlaps with politics. Even the European Coal and Steel Community - the beginnings of the EEC that fell out of the Marshal Plan - was an economic project to achieve political aims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 26 minutes ago, ccc said: No 'Brexit' bad story is in any way actually verifiable. You know that - we all know that. That was the point I was making. The BAE story that the poster linked to Brexit was taking the absolute piss though. Its difficult to know how even the most ardent remainer could find some link in there. There wasn't a Brexit link, I think it was meant of be a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 minute ago, smash said: Jacob Rees Mogg for PM ! Would not want to miss out on our chance to have our very own Trump moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 minute ago, smash said: Jacob Rees Mogg for PM ! Part of me wants to see him appointed as PM - just for pure comedy value. Then watch him campaigning in the North of England just as the factories are closing down. Boris would be a good choice as well, he could take his bus back on the road, might need to armour plate it this time through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapori Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, smash said: Jacob Rees Mogg for PM ! They would probably prefer Tony Benn 2 hours ago, Futuroid said: Of course it's a political project. Economics overlaps with politics. Even the European Coal and Steel Community - the beginnings of the EEC that fell out of the Marshal Plan - was an economic project to achieve political aims. Good. What would be your redlines to greater integration? Single currency? ECJ jurisdiction? TTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapori Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Futuroid said: Part of me wants to see him appointed as PM - just for pure comedy value. Then watch him campaigning in the North of England just as the factories are closing down. Boris would be a good choice as well, he could take his bus back on the road, might need to armour plate it this time through This is what is keeping May in power; Mogg would destroy the Tories for a generation. Likewise Boris whose 2 very close London wins as Mayor has blinded the insular media who don't realise that people don't really like him outside "oh he's a clown" circles. Edited October 11, 2017 by Tapori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Just now, Tapori said: They would probably prefer Tony Benn Good. What would be your redlines to greater integration? Single currency? ECJ jurisdiction? TTP? I don't have red lines personally. But loving the idea of Mogg going up north, mainly as he'd never come back, the antediluvian faux Victorian creep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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