Dorkins Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: You think the UK government will? I don't. Yes, it will. The UK government enforces its laws within its own territory. That's what sovereignty is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Yes, it will. The UK government enforces its laws within its own territory. That's what sovereignty is. It won't be UK law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: It won't be UK law. Import tariffs and regulations are UK law, how else could they be enforced? If a company didn't pay up the government wouldn't be able to take them to court to enforce it. Like I say, the UK is a nation with rule of law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 extension > new deal or new deal > before end March......rejected deal before or after March = peoples vote or general election, take your pick.......only a new updated peoples vote or a general election with a pro Brexit government winning will see a real Brexit.......everything else is Brexit in name only or no Brexit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Beans said: It’ll be enforced by other WTO members. The U.K. could ask for an emergency waiver on essential goods to start with, but they would also have to setup a hard border as well. The EU would ask ROI to set one up first. It would be interesting if they said no. First , what about the "interim" arrangements permitted by the WTO? It seems to me this is a good idea (and that is why it will be ignored). Second, all this so called hard border needs is a bit of technology. There are already cameras everywhere. The cameras don't even need to be situated at the border. Gibraltar has recently opened its new online Customs service, use that as a model. If there was a will to do it, it would be done no problem believe me. So what I conclude is there is no will to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The WTO would only act on a complaint. I think ROI would be obliged to put up checks by the EU. But maybe the ROI could try talking with the Brit govt before turning to the EU? The World Trade Organisation (WTO) has said that there is nothing in its rules that would force either the EU or UK to erect a hard Irish border after Brexit. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, kzb said: First , what about the "interim" arrangements permitted by the WTO? It seems to me this is a good idea (and that is why it will be ignored). Second, all this so called hard border needs is a bit of technology. There are already cameras everywhere. The cameras don't even need to be situated at the border. Gibraltar has recently opened its new online Customs service, use that as a model. If there was a will to do it, it would be done no problem believe me. So what I conclude is there is no will to do it. A bit of a crass way to put it, but a camera cannot put a probe up a chicken's #### to check for pathogens. Edited January 22, 2019 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Murrison returns! Expiry date amendment...but will Bercow select it? If he did and it passed then May could at least present it to the EU as an idea with parliamentary backing the following week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Import tariffs and regulations are UK law, how else could they be enforced? If a company didn't pay up the government wouldn't be able to take them to court to enforce it. Like I say, the UK is a nation with rule of law. If a company breaks UK law when it moves goods to or from the UK then it can be taken to court. Nothing to do with having a hard border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) For anyone who wants to see the remarks as video feed from EU on NI border, there's a link in news story below...just stating the obvious is the line. Irish Times ref to this discussion only... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/commission-confirms-no-deal-brexit-will-mean-hard-border-in-ireland-1.3766612 Edited January 22, 2019 by thehowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, thehowler said: The WTO would only act on a complaint. I think ROI would be obliged to put up checks by the EU. But maybe the ROI could try talking with the Brit govt before turning to the EU? The World Trade Organisation (WTO) has said that there is nothing in its rules that would force either the EU or UK to erect a hard Irish border after Brexit. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 The UK could potentially get an emergency waiver, but the UK will want to sign favourable FTAs with other WTO members ASAP, thus they would need to think about erecting infrastructure sooner rather than later... Its a difficult one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The plot is thickening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) How can you negotiate a backstop to a deal...when there is no deal? Or is he proposing a special CU/SM zone for NI and ROI? And if so, why didn't he think of that two and half years ago? Varadakar might yet flounder on this, his great diplomatic gamble. Edited January 22, 2019 by thehowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 There's an awful lot of smoke about on the backstop today/yesterday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, thehowler said: And things hotting up for the ROI with Juncker's spokesperson saying there will have to be a hard border...no doubt Mr Coveney will be tweeting a rebuttal to that within 45 minutes...oh yeah. Maybe a kickback to the Poles pointing out quite reasonably that there's no good reason why the backstop shouldn't be time limited, and everyone else saying shush. Well well well. Someone’s been talking porky pies... just in case you missed it: You missed it? Here it is: pay attention - it’s right here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: A bit of a crass way to put it, but a camera cannot put a probe up a chicken's #### to check for pathogens. I think we may have been through this before, but don't we do these checks already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, thehowler said: The WTO would only act on a complaint. I think ROI would be obliged to put up checks by the EU. But maybe the ROI could try talking with the Brit govt before turning to the EU? The World Trade Organisation (WTO) has said that there is nothing in its rules that would force either the EU or UK to erect a hard Irish border after Brexit. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 Thanks for this - Lord Trimball was right - the EU need a hard border to protect their precious single market... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: A bit of a crass way to put it, but a camera cannot put a probe up a chicken's #### to check for pathogens. I'm pretty sure you can't check for pathogens like this. It requires lab tests. In other words it won't be done in the back of a lorry. It must depend on the company that produced them being certified beforehand. We import lots of potentially disease carrying products from non-EU countries. How is that managed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: A bit of a crass way to put it, but a camera cannot put a probe up a chicken's #### to check for pathogens. Why don’t we just eat UK grown chickens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: If a company breaks UK law when it moves goods to or from the UK then it can be taken to court. Nothing to do with having a hard border. Guess it depends how you define "hard border". If the UK leaves the customs union and single market there will be a customs and regulatory border in Ireland and it will be enforced. Could be enforced by men in funny uniforms standing in posts on the border, could maybe be enforced less visibly by cameras and men in funny uniforms driving around in mobile customs units (I have no idea how practical this would be). Either way it will be enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, ****-eyed octopus said: I think we may have been through this before, but don't we do these checks already? There are, between GB and the island of Ireland, checks are made at Larne, for instance.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45829952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Guess it depends how you define "hard border". If the UK leaves the customs union and single market there will be a customs and regulatory border in Ireland and it will be enforced. Could be enforced by men in funny uniforms standing in posts on the border, could maybe be enforced less visibly by cameras and men in funny uniforms driving around in mobile customs units (I have no idea how practical this would be). Either way it will be enforced. I would have thought incoming lorries could be checked at destination. Outgoing would have to comply when they left the factory/depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Sounds like a bilateral treaty is needed. Like the one you dismissed out of hand yesterday. FFS you can’t make this shit up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Guy and I agree on something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Sounds like a bilateral treaty is needed. Like the one you dismissed out of hand yesterday. FFS you can’t make this shit up!!! Yes, this is a big deal and not getting much press yet. The EU is cutting ROI loose if the deal doesn't pass. So maybe ROI and UK could negotiate something that doesn't need a backstop. The lid is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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