The Masked Tulip Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yes, I would. I never worry about legal technicalities when deciding there right course of action. Instead I think about how my wife, my mother, and my grandmother would judge my actions. If I think that they'd all be OK with what I'm doing then I know it's fine. No jury made up of the general population would convict you in the scenario you've described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I'd like to think i would attempt to disarm an attacking terrorist in the shopping centre scenario mentioned above, but as has been said here already you could find yourself up in court on charges. Yes it's likely it would be taken in self defence / genuine fear for your life etc. But who knows. I think i would just run if i could. There was a public information announcement saying what to to do in a UK terror attack recently i dont believe any of it said anything other than run / hide / put your phone on silent etc But i think the US version said run / hide and it may have said fight in a last resort? i'am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Gordon Pugh Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I have long held the view that the SAS are not some groups of highly trained but normal soldiers, they are just a group of psychopaths that are led by the best officers. They make good soldiers because they are natural born killers. Same for any special forces. I don't believe normal humans can tap tap someone in the head and just carry on like they were opening a bang of crisps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 BBC News now reporting that some soldiers who fought in Iraq might now be prosecuted for war crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 BBC News now reporting that some soldiers who fought in Iraq might now be prosecuted for war crimes. That's a bit of a *******, because that was their job! How can you expect a soldier to be Politically Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 If they are going to shoot you in the head it is probably best not to get on an SAS train. Although, it might still be preferable to a Virgin or Great Western one. so ISIS sympathisers take the psychological approach first and graffitti the number 72 in front of the virgin logo on every bit of rolling stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 That's a bit of a *******, because that was their job! How can you expect a soldier to be Politically Correct? That is the problem which I am trying to get at - and which is obviously of great concern to UK armed Police units, so much so that they are in talks with the govt about changing the laws. Between twitter, other social media, a politically correct media and, IMPO, a very politically correct crown prosecution service you could very easily see a stituation in the not too distant future where armed Police kill a terrorist and, whilst the vast majority of Brits will back him or her, the very vocal politically correct minority will demand that the officer is jailed for life. Would I trust a jury? No, not when the CPS would be demanding that the jury is culturally diverse and represents the same group that the terrorists come from. What if the court case is heard in London, Luton or Bradford or some other UK town where there is now a very large, vocal and active militant muslim population? I fully understand why the armed Police units are very uneasy about being asked to kill to defend lives as, currently, the law does not fully protect them. And if it does not protect armed Police risking their lives to protect others then what happens, as I was trying to highlight, if you or I find ourselves in a fight for life or death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I'm not complaining about soldiers BTW. It's a hard enough job, without having to be PC about it. They are not civilian plod! If somebody pointed a gun at me, in a dodgy situation, I would assume it's loaded and works! If the guy lowers his gun, I would do the same, but mine would still be loaded. I don't know how you would judge that situation. Luckily I just fly a desk, and when he's not looking, I take the staples from his stapler, so he has an unnecessary trip to the stationery cupboard! And I hide his special coffee cup in the dishwasher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Luckily I just fly a desk, and when he's not looking, I take the staples from his stapler, so he has an unnecessary trip to the stationery cupboard! And I hide his special coffee cup in the dishwasher! We need more like you... Well, not you exactly... but you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The XYY Man Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Luckily I just fly a desk, and when he's not looking, I take the staples from his stapler, so he has an unnecessary trip to the stationery cupboard! And I hide his special coffee cup in the dishwasher! Aye, pull the other one MrPin. Just like in "Under Siege" where Steven Seagal was only a cook. Or maybe Henry The Mild-Mannered Janitor in "Hong Kong Phooey"..! Even your code-name - Pin - is part of a hand-grenade. You are under-cover special forces or I'm a Dutchman's uncle. Regards, Rembrandt XYY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Aye, pull the other one MrPin. Just like in "Under Siege" where Steven Seagal was only a cook. Or maybe Henry The Mild-Mannered Janitor in "Hong Kong Phooey"..! Even your code-name - Pin - is part of a hand-grenade. You are under-cover special forces or I'm a Dutchman's uncle. Regards, Rembrandt XYY It would be a hoot if I were! I just fix computer systems! I've been to some smashing shitholes, but I've never had to bribe my way in or shoot my way out! I usually steal a cup and a mouse mat as a souvenir! Once I got away with some size 11 safety boots, that I still use for gardening! Sometimes I buy an overpriced souvenir at the airport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 BBC News now reporting that some soldiers who fought in Iraq might now be prosecuted for war crimes. Presumably rather than the politicians who sent them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Presumably rather than the politicians who sent them there. Precisely! They do the job! The politicians are really horrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 We need more like you... Well, not you exactly... but you know what I mean. Some people are very jealous about their "special cup" and don't like other people using it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I have long held the view that the SAS are not some groups of highly trained but normal soldiers, they are just a group of psychopaths that are led by the best officers. They make good soldiers because they are natural born killers. Same for any special forces. I don't believe normal humans can tap tap someone in the head and just carry on like they were opening a bang of crisps. No, they tend to be more rational, less gung-ho and easier to get on with than normal squaddies. Two of my brothers went into the special forces. One remained in a support role, the other continued and was in for 5 years. Its less that special forces are 'special' and more like normal forces are distinctly un-special. Special forces tend to get a lot of training across multiple skills. Un-special forces, despite the hype, tend to do a couple of simple things. Special forces tend to be a lot more physically fit than squaddies. None a have pumped up arms like a lot of squaddies. They also don't have tatoos - easy spot for special forces is someone who does not go out in a big groups, have tatoos and steroid arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 They also don't have tatoos - easy spot for special forces is someone who does not go out in a big groups, have tatoos and steroid arms. I always knew I was special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 We need more like you... Well, not you exactly... but you know what I mean. Unlucky. There are no more like him. They broke the mould. Then made Mr. Pin. Then fixed the mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Unlucky. There are no more like him. They broke the mould. Then made Mr. Pin. Then fixed the mould. Do you have any spare staples? Some burger has pinched mine! And which one of you has my Pingu mug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The example given above is not murder. A person does not commit murder if he uses reasonable force in self-defence or in order to protect others. That is the case whether that person is a lay person or a constable. Conversely, a Police Officer who uses excessive force may commit murder or gross negligence manslaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I've shot at a few brazilians in my time. I was surprised when that Brazilian was shot. They usually get away with a close shave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 so ISIS sympathisers take the psychological approach first and graffitti the number 72 in front of the virgin logo on every bit of rolling stock. According to the old song, If the virgins are coming down from Inverness, it would have to be in 3 batches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Given that people running around using guns is rather undesirable, wouldn't it be even worse if those people believed they were above the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The example given above is not murder. A person does not commit murder if he uses reasonable force in self-defence or in order to protect others. That is the case whether that person is a lay person or a constable. Conversely, a Police Officer who uses excessive force may commit murder or gross negligence manslaughter. In my scenario you have two heavily armed motivated killers in front of you, with their backs to you, and you shoot them in that backs. It is caught on camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 TMT - please stop watching this endless news coverage and dwelling upon it. You are as likely to be involved in a terrorist situation as you are to be struck by lightning. You do not know how you will react. The last times I was in violent situations were twenty years ago; those times (twice) I flipped. Next time I might wet myself. You cannot predict how you will react in an extreme situation so stop dwelling on it, 99.9% chance that it will not happen to you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 TMT - please stop watching this endless news coverage and dwelling upon it. You are as likely to be involved in a terrorist situation as you are to be struck by lightning. You do not know how you will react. The last times I was in violent situations were twenty years ago; those times (twice) I flipped. Next time I might wet myself. You cannot predict how you will react in an extreme situation so stop dwelling on it, 99.9% chance that it will not happen to you anyway. Yes, I know that the chances of it happening are remote. I am, however, fascinated by it from purely a legal exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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