Finland Plans To Give Every Citizen 800 Euros A Month And Scrap Benefits

[MrPin]

Buy gold and claim you blew it all on the horses?

A good way to hide "stuff"! Probably many do!

[ccc]

But you've just said they'd get an additional CI - still incentivising people to have more kids.

Less though. Would make a huge difference. They also would have more council tax to pay if moving to a larger house, They dont have to concern themslves with that today,

[winkie]

Nope. The UK's problem is manufactured by those who want to make the EU look bad. Cameron inherited it, but it suits him now to play that game.

As a single person with no sprogs nor house, I get ditto.

Worse, as a single person with no sprogs nor house nor assets, and an income a whole lot less than the Finnish citizens income back in 2002/2003, I also got nothing. That was real poverty.

Nope. It turns work back into a functioning market. Earn a tenner for mowing someone's lawn, without losing a tenner in benefits.

There's no such thing as fixed monthly costs you can reduce like that.

How about cost of housing for a start, rents is a good start...or food/water or fuel/transport......stuff we all have to fork out for to live......most benefit money goes to pay to keep a roof over your head money....never claimed a penny neither, but I do understand there are many that do and have to, often only because of the cost of basic living costs......free money in the hands of the many will have an impact on inflation no question about it.....perhaps that is what they are desperate to kick into action.

[porca misèria]

How about cost of housing for a start, rents is a good start...or food/water or fuel/transport......stuff we all have to fork out for to live......most benefit money goes to pay to keep a roof over your head money....never claimed a penny neither, but I do understand there are many that do and have to, often only because of the cost of basic living costs......free money in the hands of the many will have an impact on inflation no question about it.....perhaps that is what they are desperate to kick into action.

None of those are fixed costs.

Lazy - live on the citizens income - you have to keep all those costs down. Live in an HMO, lots of pasta and beans.

Ambitious - work hard, earn money, live somewhere nice and indulge in meals out.

Totally different levels of living costs there. If you work hard, you're working for a lifestyle that has higher "fixed" costs.

Methinks a fair few HPCers are those of us who work hard but because of our "redistribution" still get bottom-end lifestyles. The other side of that is the idea that privileged social housing has to be just as good as the stuff many hardworking folks can't hope to afford.

[winkie]

None of those are fixed costs.

Lazy - live on the citizens income - you have to keep all those costs down. Live in an HMO, lots of pasta and beans.

Ambitious - work hard, earn money, live somewhere nice and indulge in meals out.

Totally different levels of living costs there. If you work hard, you're working for a lifestyle that has higher "fixed" costs.

Methinks a fair few HPCers are those of us who work hard but because of our "redistribution" still get bottom-end lifestyles. The other side of that is the idea that privileged social housing has to be just as good as the stuff many hardworking folks can't hope to afford.

Easy, gather together a few on 800 euros spread the cost and together can live very well.......share tinternet, rent, heat, car......grow and cook well....cheers.

[MrPin]

Easy, gather together a few on 800 euros spread the cost and together can live very well.......share tinternet, rent, heat, car......grow and cook well....cheers.

It's one of my friend's dreams! I think she is a Communist. Everyone needs their own car, and stereo! Sharing is for wimps!

[John51]

I think that train of thought, that if you give the plebs too much free time they'll destroy themselves, is why governments would rather have a load of non-jobs for people to waste their lives on, and always stress the importance of job creation, as if working 40 hours a week is the pinnacle of human happinesss.

If you don't need to work, you can spent your life reading, appreciating and learning to create art of various forms, you can get more exercise and look after yourself physically.

I'd like to see a government that tries to structure society so that everyone does their bit but we all only have to do 20 or 30 hours a week. Trim the fat and it could happen. But it won't.

Seems hard to believe now but when I was a teen, there really were young guys that believed the revolution was coming, they were 'Waiting for the Call'. tptb were nervous and desperately wanted to understand youth culture. You can't control it if you don't understand it.

I was a regular reader of 'OZ' back then and imo it was not the fabled 'Schoolboy Issue' that tptb had a problem with, it was a few issues back. Can't remember the title but the article took a hard look at British society.

On the lines of: Add up all the hours of work that needs to be done. Housing, food, education, public health etc. and ignore everything not vital. Divide those hours by the number of people capable of working. The article came up with a figure of 9 hours of work per week. So anyone with a regular job was doing 31 hours a week for no point at all.

It was better written than I can manage and I remember at the time thinking that it was a far better sales pitch for communism than I ever read from the likes of Marx and his supporters. Lo and behold, Oz gets busted for telling people how to catch and cook a schoolboy.

[winkie]

It's one of my friend's dreams! I think she is a Communist. Everyone needs their own car, and stereo! Sharing is for wimps!

Rubbish.....communist countries do not offer choices........we live in a place where people do have greater choices, CI would see that certain other choices become more viable.......we all have to work around the system presented to us whatever it is, workable for us in the best way possible.....whatever the design there will always be unintended concequences.

[JoeDavola]

It's one of my friend's dreams! I think she is a Communist. Everyone needs their own car, and stereo! Sharing is for wimps!

Seems hard to believe now but when I was a teen, there really were young guys that believed the revolution was coming, they were 'Waiting for the Call'. tptb were nervous and desperately wanted to understand youth culture. You can't control it if you don't understand it.

I was a regular reader of 'OZ' back then and imo it was not the fabled 'Schoolboy Issue' that tptb had a problem with, it was a few issues back. Can't remember the title but the article took a hard look at British society.

On the lines of: Add up all the hours of work that needs to be done. Housing, food, education, public health etc. and ignore everything not vital. Divide those hours by the number of people capable of working. The article came up with a figure of 9 hours of work per week. So anyone with a regular job was doing 31 hours a week for no point at all.

It was better written than I can manage and I remember at the time thinking that it was a far better sales pitch for communism than I ever read from the likes of Marx and his supporters. Lo and behold, Oz gets busted for telling people how to catch and cook a schoolboy.

Yeah I've had this idea ticking around my mind the last few years, that's not quite communism but is based on a society that shares things more, and with the reduced competition between the plebs (speaking as one myself!), we don't have to work anywhere near as much to pay for life.

So basically, we only have a limited amount of time on this earth, and lots of it is spent working in jobs that we hate (my job is ok at the moment but lets be honest, a big % of people do pretty rotten jobs), to earn money to buy things that we may or may not actually need (or need to solely own), and which make the few at the top of the food chain richer.

So on a higher level, there's the idea of shared public spaces like parks. I love seeing public money spent on keeping public spaces like that well maintained, because it's there for everyone, and you don't need to spend the big money to buy/maintain your own land. I know it's a bad example because it's one of the most expensive places on earth, but I remember standing in the empire state building looking at central park and thinking that was a good way to build a city - lots of apartments with an easily accessible shared space for everyone. You see it on a smaller scale in Europe with little squares and whatnot with cafes in them.

But on a lower level, take housing for example. If 100 priced out first time buyers were to get together and pool their resources, they could probably buy some land and build houses on a non-profit basis. If everyone helped each other out and nobody was trying to make a quick buck my flipping/BTL-ing it would reduce the price of housing significantly. Everyone pool together and build an apartment block for yourselves or whatever.

On a less extreme level there's airbnb, which has enabled me to stay in New York and San Francisco for extended periods of time where hotels would have been prohibitively expensive.

What about the traffic jams all over the country with cars that are often going to similar places with one person in each car; if people were happy to share lifts with their fellow man they'd pay less in petrol and the roads would be clearer so they'd probably get there quicker.

At the lowest level, take something like a fancy camera, or a car. There are certain people who own things like that that only use them once in a while, and two people could share them just as easily. I think there's actually a startup being funded at the moment to rent small items like cameras, and there's already a car share business but I can't remember what it's called.

[MrPin]

I agree, sharing isn't for "wimps" My lady friend had a dream of some sort of commune! It didn't happen.

[JoeDavola]

I agree, sharing isn't for "wimps" My lady friend had a dream of some sort of commune! It didn't happen.

Yeah I was thinking that what I was envisioning was pretty much a commune. And nothing could possibly go wrong in a commune, right?

[MrPin]

Yeah I was thinking that what I was envisioning was pretty much a commune. And nothing could possibly go wrong in a commune, right?

You have to get on! It would be like a small village!

[winkie]

Yeah I was thinking that what I was envisioning was pretty much a commune. And nothing could possibly go wrong in a commune, right?

......thousands are already being forced into living in shared accommodation already....shared is nice only if a free choice..... choice would be, if in control of the money given to you to make do as you wish....sharing will definitely make it go further....those more selfish may wish to forgo that and work harder to enable a top-up to live solo.....solo living costs.

[council dweller]

Well, I get £35 a week in benefits. I subsidise this from my savings which pays me £75 in total,

Thank god I`ve got savings !

Also never having to sign on to get my £35 is just about miraculous !

[interestrateripoff]

Going Finnish: is it time we paid all British citizens £155 a week?

Jeremy Warner: A basic income guarantee would be costly, but could be the answer to a lot of problems

The Torygraph on the case.

Although £155 wouldn't be enough once you factor in housing costs and council tax for most areas.

[winkie]

What's the problem PPI coming to an end or something....

[Oliver Sutton]

Going Finnish: is it time we paid all British citizens £155 a week?

Jeremy Warner: A basic income guarantee would be costly, but could be the answer to a lot of problems

The Torygraph on the case.

Although £155 wouldn't be enough once you factor in housing costs and council tax for most areas.

Even with the incredibly biased wording in the poll a majority agree with the idea.

[porca misèria]

Going Finnish: is it time we paid all British citizens £155 a week?

Jeremy Warner: A basic income guarantee would be costly, but could be the answer to a lot of problems

The Torygraph on the case.

Although £155 wouldn't be enough once you factor in housing costs and council tax for most areas.

Of course it's enough! Not for a life of luxury, but if you want that you work to earn more.

Though I'd be in favour of some additional help for the disabled (to live comfortably, though not to breed).

[non frog]

You guys are missing the big issue. The main welfare hand out is old age pension. The boomers will go ape at such an idea.

[shindigger]

Going Finnish: is it time we paid all British citizens £155 a week?

Jeremy Warner: A basic income guarantee would be costly, but could be the answer to a lot of problems

The Torygraph on the case.

Although £155 wouldn't be enough once you factor in housing costs and council tax for most areas.

Where do i sign?

[ccc]

Going Finnish: is it time we paid all British citizens £155 a week?

Jeremy Warner: A basic income guarantee would be costly, but could be the answer to a lot of problems

The Torygraph on the case.

Although £155 wouldn't be enough once you factor in housing costs and council tax for most areas.

Hence the main reason TPTB wouldnt support this. It would force land, rent and house prices to fall.

They are not usually big fans of these things.

[The Eagle]

Hence the main reason TPTB wouldnt support this. It would force land, rent and house prices to fall.

I don't think so. It would simply cause more people to live together (as couples or HMOs) or to move to areas with cheaper housing.

[ccc]

I don't think so. It would simply cause more people to live together (as couples or HMOs) or to move to areas with cheaper housing.

I disagree. Would need to see it in action to be sure though.

Let's say for example 5 million people on HB today suddenly had £100 less a month overall.

I am pretty sure a majority of them would simply tell their landlord they couldnt pay that amount anymore.

[The Eagle]

Let's say for example 5 million people on HB today suddenly had £100 less a month overall.

I am pretty sure a majority of them would simply tell their landlord they couldnt pay that amount anymore.

But it wouldn't be concerted action, it would be 5 million individual cases, all with different outcomes.

Some might get a rent reduction, others would have to move and a lot of them would either come up with the money by reducing their other outgoings or get a part time job to increase their income (even simply a cash in hand job).

You need to remember that most people on benefits are able to work but currently aren't motivated to do so because they would be worse off, while with the CI even working a few hours a week would earn them extra money on top of the CI.

[ccc]

Could go either way - but I still think there would be more downward pressure than up.