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The Eagle

Finland Plans To Give Every Citizen 800 Euros A Month And Scrap Benefits

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Finland's government is drawing up plans to give every one of its citizens a basic income of 800 euros (£576) a month and scrap benefits altogether.

A poll commissioned by the agency planning the proposal, the Finnish Social Insurance Institute, showed 69% supported the basic income plan.

Prime Minister Juha Sipila was quote by QZ as backing the idea.

“For me, a basic income means simplifying the social security system,” she said.

The proposal would entitle each Finn to 800 euros tax free each month, which according to Bloomberg, would cost the government 52.2 billion euros a year.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-800-euros-a-month-and-scrap-benefits-a6762226.html

I'm positively surprised that an unconditional citizens' income is finally becoming reality somewhere.

Way to go Finland!

As far as I can see it this will transform the Finnish society. People who are currently on benefits will be much more incentivated to work (at least part-time) as any additional income will be earned on top of the citizens' income, not instead of benefits, as it is currently everywhere.

IMHO this should be introduced everywhere in the EU asap, of course only for EU citizens as otherwise it would become a magnet for immigration.

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It's probably cheaper to administer than the current mess of JSA, tax credits, and child benefits, and HB? :blink:

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I hope it's a success but I do feel for the civil servants it'll put out of a job.

it will, because they have made up unproductive jobs! :blink: Could it work?

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Wonderful! Great idea, scrap all the non-jobs and associated costs with benefits administration and spread the money across everyone. Always loved the idea of a CI; but never thought it would be a reality.

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Wonderful! Great idea, scrap all the non-jobs and associated costs with benefits administration and spread the money across everyone. Always loved the idea of a CI; but never thought it would be a reality.

Someone has to kick the idea off somewhere.

Many Liberal minded states will be watching this to see how it evolves.

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Wonderful! Great idea, scrap all the non-jobs and associated costs with benefits administration and spread the money across everyone. Always loved the idea of a CI; but never thought it would be a reality.

It's amazing to me that so many people think this a good idea. I think it is, and would remove a whole lot of useless administration. :wacko:

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Very interesting development. Most people in the UK seem to think it is a crazy idea to give everyone free money. People seem to prefer the current benefits system. Hopefully having some actual data and evidence will help the debate along.

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IMHO this should be introduced everywhere in the EU asap, of course only for EU citizens as otherwise it would become a magnet for immigration.

Yes, I wonder how they will deal with immigrants.

I hope it's a success but I do feel for the civil servants it'll put out of a job.

Well, they will get £572 a month for doing nowt so I don't feel too bad for them, doubtless they'll have redundancy payments too.

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Very interesting development. Most people in the UK seem to think it is a crazy idea to give everyone free money. People seem to prefer the current benefits system. Hopefully having some actual data and evidence will help the debate along.

Having had recent experience of the "current benefit system", I find it bizzare, that I am trapped in a room with two other claimants, five staff and three security people to get a bit of my tax back. How much does that cost?

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Yes, I wonder how they will deal with immigrants.

Well, they will get £572 a month for doing nowt so I don't feel too bad for them, doubtless they'll have redundancy payments too.

Frankly, people who end up working in the Job Centre are probably not a benefit to the economy! :blink:

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They don't seem to have released too many details so far about how the tax system would work afterwards.

This Beeb article also says Utrecht are going to have a pilot of a CI: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33977636

More on the Utrecht one here: https://www.forumforthefuture.org/blog/%E2%80%98unconditional%E2%80%99-basic-income-utrecht%E2%80%99s-unemployed. It also mentions schemes in Africa.

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I understand the reasoning being CI and it's obviously preferable to our current benefits system.

My worry is what happens to humanity when our economies become so productive that people no longer need to work to survive and multiply? Will we all end up as pets to a benevolent productive machine? What will be the point of our continued existence?

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But, but, but ,but,

how will the BTL model work if people cannot pay the rents?

Crikey, aren't you older than that? Once we shared run down rented houses with damp walls. If it was too sh!t, you moved out! That's what I call a "market". We were students or quite young! What do people expect?

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Under EU laws how will they restrict that to citizens only? Isn't that the exact same fight Cameron is having over in work benefits right now? Seems to be that, if they do got with it, just about every waster in the EU will be on the first flight to Helsinki to sign up.

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I understand the reasoning being CI and it's obviously preferable to our current benefits system.

My worry is what happens to humanity when our economies become so productive that people no longer need to work to survive and multiply? Will we all end up as pets to a benevolent productive machine? What will be the point of our continued existence?

I think that train of thought, that if you give the plebs too much free time they'll destroy themselves, is why governments would rather have a load of non-jobs for people to waste their lives on, and always stress the importance of job creation, as if working 40 hours a week is the pinnacle of human happinesss.

If you don't need to work, you can spent your life reading, appreciating and learning to create art of various forms, you can get more exercise and look after yourself physically.

I'd like to see a government that tries to structure society so that everyone does their bit but we all only have to do 20 or 30 hours a week. Trim the fat and it could happen. But it won't.

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Under EU laws how will they restrict that to citizens only? Isn't that the exact same fight Cameron is having over in work benefits right now? Seems to be that, if they do got with it, just about every waster in the EU will be on the first flight to Helsinki to sign up.

Should be restricted to Citizens only, Mr Cat!

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I think that train of thought, that if you give the plebs too much free time they'll destroy themselves, is why governments would rather have a load of non-jobs for people to waste their lives on, and always stress the importance of job creation, as if working 40 hours a week is the pinnacle of human happinesss.

If you don't need to work, you can spent your life reading, appreciating and learning to create art of various forms, you can get more exercise and look after yourself physically.

I'd like to see a government that tries to structure society so that everyone does their bit but we all only have to do 20 or 30 hours a week. Trim the fat and it could happen. But it won't.

I'll never get time to learn a saxophone!

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I'll never get time to learn a saxophone!

Exactly, Pin! When I set up my own country we'll have government subsidized musical instruments for all, to keep the plebs out of trouble!

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Under EU laws how will they restrict that to citizens only? Isn't that the exact same fight Cameron is having over in work benefits right now? Seems to be that, if they do got with it, just about every waster in the EU will be on the first flight to Helsinki to sign up.

I was wondering about that as well.

If it did need to be extended to EU citizens living in Finland the scope for fraud would be enormous, it surely wouldn't be too hard to set up multiple identities in some of the more corrupt jurisdictions and use these to make multiple claims.

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I think that train of thought, that if you give the plebs too much free time they'll destroy themselves, is why governments would rather have a load of non-jobs for people to waste their lives on, and always stress the importance of job creation, as if working 40 hours a week is the pinnacle of human happinesss.

If you don't need to work, you can spent your life reading, appreciating and learning to create art of various forms, you can get more exercise and look after yourself physically.

I'd like to see a government that tries to structure society so that everyone does their bit but we all only have to do 20 or 30 hours a week. Trim the fat and it could happen. But it won't.

I predict that those who produce will continue to be punished out of existence until only the unproductive remain. At which point, there'll be nobody left to man the controls of our complex, interconnected and precarious economy. Chaos will follow.

This could be slowed by the CI but it won't be stopped. Traditional welfare benefits will be overlayed onto the CI until we're back where we started. That's what the majority will ask for, that's what they'll get.

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Should be restricted to Citizens only, Mr Cat!

Well, yes, it should, but I'm very certain that existing EU treaties and laws would make that impossible. It will be very interesting to see if and how they manage to get around that - it could well be yet another example of one law for the UK, one for the rest of the EU of course.

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