Axe Stamp Duty For Oap's

[Dorkins]

Taking 5 minutes out on a Thursday once every 5 years must be so much more difficult than it was 40 years ago.

There weren't 10 million pensioners to vote against 40 years ago.

[Dorkins]

"Young people are being screwed, maybe we should try cutting taxes on old people."

Right.

[winkie]

"Young people are being screwed, maybe we should try cutting taxes on old people."

Right.

The majority of them already pay less tax....no national insurance, as have already paid 30 to 40 years of that....pensions paid are very often in the below £10k tax allowance bracket....they don't always travel much (apart from the free bus pass), or spend much, go out much and very often stick to within a tight knit no tax shared community.

If they move they should pay the same stamp duty tax as everyone else....if you spend taxes should be paid...if you work taxes should be paid....choices.

[long time lurking]

One thing you can be sure of he's going to come up with a bribe to boost spending prior to May 2015, bringing forward the date pensioners can release their pension could be a goer.

Gifted deposits a la Australia

The ‘Help to Move’ equity loan would help older homeowners trade up and buy a more expensive retirement home because of the difficulty of accessing mortgages for pensioners.

And then out bid those who have not been subsidised leading to more HPI

As already mentioned if there was any age demographic this should be given to it`s the young IMO stamp duty should remain the same for every one, as it has a small ceiling price effect built in to a point

[billybong]

They've been claiming to be going to do that tax reducing stuff since the days of William Pitt the Younger.

Always before general elections but turning out to be something different afterwards.

Edited November 14, 2014 by billybong

[olliegog]

'And then out bid those who have not been subsidised leading to more HPI

As already mentioned if there was any age demographic this should be given to it`s the young IMO stamp duty should remain the same for every one, as it has a small ceiling price effect built in to a point'

Stamp duty should be zero for under £250k (average house price for everyone) - I agree

the subsidy (if it is ever given) the 'help to move' bit would only apply to retirement housing (not too many youngsters being outbid there!) - I was quoting the Telegraph not my own words.

and of course this is only a 'think tank' postulating you do realise that.

[Dorkins]

the subsidy (if it is ever given) the 'help to move' bit would only apply to retirement housing (not too many youngsters being outbid there!)

Homeowning OAPs do not need any more subsidies

[campervanman]

The first past the post system makes it fairly meaningless in the final analysis.

To win power you need to gravitate to the 'middle ground', to where the majority of voters (and their vested interests) sit.

That is precisely why they have virtually identical policies. They are fishing in the same pool.

Democracy has become the ongoing oppression of the minorities by the majority. In this case, the young and the non homeowners. There are no effective parties under this system that act as a mouth piece for their interests...except for the 'vile' racist parties that are villified or others such as the Greens that are ridiculed by the mainstream media. And they remain voiceless and unrepresented thereby increasing dissatisfaction across the spectrum.

Working people were not represented by any of the mainstream parties in the 1800's. They became represented 100 years go because enough people realised that the mainstream parties of the time only represented landowners and the rich. Those people who previously had no representation got off their arses and did something to get their voices heard and change things. Edited November 15, 2014 by campervanman

[campervanman]

Tax breaks and other incentives just push up house prices anyway whether given to young or old. It is just a ploy to make it look as though government is doing something for people when all they are doing is helping their sponsors in the house building industry.

[Billy soy]

Just another reason for non voters (young people) to get off their arses.

The problem with the younger voting bloc is that 18-25 are either in education or trying to find work, they are also a little inexperienced in life as they are well, a bit young! Buying a home just seems like something everybody does snd something every bodies parents did no matter what job they had.

They are yet to find the realisation that the government and the greedy have decided to pick winners and losers in housing now, namely they are the losers and the 50+ are the winners.

The 25-40 bracket no what's up, but lack the numbers. The 50+ are all undivided, experienced and have a vested interest in voting for the big 3 as they get all the jam.

[stepho]

Current incentives are keeping things moving nicely already and should see us through to the election.

The new rules on pensions soon will prop up spending for a while to come, but this could be a great follow up. All those pensioners with tens of thousands sat in the bank ripe for spending on a new car or holiday would make the economy stats look great, and allow the government to kick the can down the road a bit longer....

[winkie]

Save yourself a huge tax bill by not moving, thousands are now stuck living in what they have got, either through own choice or for the moment it is forced upon them......property is a pension so they keep telling us..... live in it, or share it/rent it or spend it whilst still living in it enjoying it....can't take it with you.....it costs a hell of a lot to move, money for old rope.....better the devil you know?....older people on the whole prefer safety and are happier with the surroundings and places they know and are used to.....they tend to stick unless forced through circumstances beyond their control.

[Guest TheBlueCat]

(Apologies for another mail link)

So with all the unearned equity locked in, a tax free ride to release it is proposed.

Autumn statement anyone?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834035/Group-MPs-says-Axe-stamp-duty-OAPs-ease-housing-crisis.html

Nah, we should just axe the OAPs instead, that would free up some housing.

[rantnrave]

This may yet have some legs...

MPs urge stamp duty exemption and Help To Buy for downsizers

A group of politicians has urged the government to offer a package of financial support and advice to make it easier for older people to move home if they wish to downsize - and thus free the housing market for younger purchasers.

The ‘Help to Move’ scheme would include a stamp duty exemption for older people buying lower value homes, an equity loan offer - similar to the ‘Help to Buy’ approach already aimed at first time buyers - and comprehensive advice linked to new pensions freedoms.

The recommendations are the result of an inquiry by the All Party Parliamentary Group on Housing and Care for Older People, chaired by cross-bench peer Lord Best and including former local government minister, Nick Raynsford MP. The cross-party think-tank Demos acted as secretariat to the inquiry.

The report goes on to argue that exempting older people purchasing homes worth up to £250,000 from stamp duty would reduce their transaction costs, while leading to a net gain for the Treasury because of the consequent moves in the property market.

It also points out that the ‘guidance guarantee’, to be brought in with new pensions freedoms next year, as well as a new duty on local authorities to provide care advice, should be wrapped into a comprehensive package together with housing advice – helping older people make decisions about where and how they live after retirement.

The report cites analysis by Demos revealing over that 58 per cent of over-60s – equal to around eight million people currently living in seven million homes – are interested in moving. A third of over-60s specifically wanted to downsize, while a quarter said they were interested in buying a retirement property.

If ‘Help to Move’ encouraged all those wanting to downsize to move home researchers calculate that 4.3 million family homes would be freed up, easing the pressure on the housing market.

http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/1644-mps-urge-stamp-duty-exemption-and-help-to-buy-for-downsizers

[TheCountOfNowhere]

This may yet have some legs...

http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/1644-mps-urge-stamp-duty-exemption-and-help-to-buy-for-downsizers

Blimey, that's a new one. Help the old people with massive equity ( untaxed unearned free pyramid scam money ) buy a house so the housing pyramid scam becomes a full blown ponzi.

Brilliant idea.

Ponzi's are illegal, these people need to go to prison.

Legal action anyone on the grounds of age discrimination ?

Edited November 20, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere

[BalancedBear]

I think Stamp duty should be axed for all homes. It would make it far more affordable to move and it would mean far more people would choose to live in a house that best suited their requirements. I cannot understand why you would want to tax moving home home in a country where housing is relative short supply. At the same time, I would make lending tougher and also make tenancies a bit more secure, so landlords need to think hard about being landlords who are happy to let properties for many years, not just on a whim.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Stamp duty should be zero.

Corrected for you.

[workingpoor]

This may yet have some legs...

http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/1644-mps-urge-stamp-duty-exemption-and-help-to-buy-for-downsizers

As I said in my OP I can see this in Osbourne's autumn statement.

Downing Street spin doctors leak it out a couple of weeks before the statement so it looks like Tories are pro-active "doing something" all to cement the grey vote.

Edited November 20, 2014 by workingpoor

[TheCountOfNowhere]

You might want all of this, but it will never happen as rentiers from both parties will not allow it to happen. Osborne will do something in the Autumn statement to 'help' and make housing more expensive and more profitable for landlords. In that regard HtB has been a massive success as not much cash has been spent but prices have gone up dramatically.

Prices were driven by FLS, I saw it myself. HTB swung sentiment atr the start of the year, but FLS was the key to the madness we now see.

FLS just about gone, MMR introduced, HTB2 buyers must be thin on the ground now I suspect and sentiment, well, we all know where that's going.

[Ash4781]

Stamp duty land tax is the golden goose. Cutting it significantly would require a hike somewhere else to pay for it if Osbourne is still keen on his deficit reduction target. I would say jacking up the duty on petrol then business rates and at a long shot raising VAT rates in the new parliament.

As Dave says no tax rises. Do you believe him?

[winkie]

.....since the equity is made from nothing ....Stamp duty and VAT, EA, conveyancing, surveyors, mortgage fees and other related costs were made from nothing, HPI.....a whole industry is paid from, livelihood is dependant on inflating house prices.....anyway don't they add it all onto the price of the house?

[BalancedBear]

Stamp duty land tax is the golden goose. Cutting it significantly would require a hike somewhere else to pay for it if Osbourne is still keen on his deficit reduction target. I would say jacking up the duty on petrol then business rates and at a long shot raising VAT rates in the new parliament.

As Dave says no tax rises. Do you believe him?

It is, but if moving between properties were not taxed, more people would upsize, downsize and just move to best suit their needs. For example, they may move for a few years close to where they work, rather than commute. However, if you have to pay 1000s in stamp duty to move, then more people stay put. Removing stamp duty would not loose as much tax revenue as expected, as most people moving would spend money making their houses their homes increasing the VAT take from sales of goods and generate more work for handymen, decorators and small builders.

[BalancedBear]

You might want all of this, but it will never happen as rentiers from both parties will not allow it to happen. Osborne will do something in the Autumn statement to 'help' and make housing more expensive and more profitable for landlords. In that regard HtB has been a massive success as not much cash has been spent but prices have gone up dramatically.

You are right, no politician will do anything like this. They all want to provide help and subsidies to distort the market and buy votes. I would like to see all such help removed. No help to buy, no FLS, no shared equity etc.

[Ash4781]

It is, but if moving between properties were not taxed, more people would upsize, downsize and just move to best suit their needs. For example, they may move for a few years close to where they work, rather than commute. However, if you have to pay 1000s in stamp duty to move, then more people stay put. Removing stamp duty would not loose as much tax revenue as expected, as most people moving would spend money making their houses their homes increasing the VAT take from sales of goods and generate more work for handymen, decorators and small builders.

Sorry I am struggling with the editor! Effective SLDT rate is forecast by Office for Budget responsibility to go to 3% in 18/19. Osbourne might do something short term balanced with a future rise.

http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/pubs/37839-OBR-Cm-8820-accessible-web-v2.pdf

Stamp duty land tax (SDLT) is forecast to increase from £9.5 billion in 2013-14 to £18.1 billion in 2018-19. In December, we increased our forecast for 2013-14 by £1.1 billion, reflecting strength in the housing market. In this forecast we have increased this estimate again, by a further £0.6 billion, as the housing market, particularly in London, has continued to outperform our forecast and receipts have been higher than expected.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Ash4781

[BalancedBear]

Sorry I am struggling with the editor! Effective SLDT rate is forecast by Office for Budget responsibility to go to 3% in 18/19. Osbourne might do something short term balanced with a future rise.

http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/pubs/37839-OBR-Cm-8820-accessible-web-v2.pdf

I bet he will just hope to get as much tax as he can. The most I would imagine would be a scheme to pay stamp duty in installments - a stamp duty loan?! Perhaps a temporary increase in the 250k threshold.

I think that in some cases stamp duty is a driver for increasing house prices. Even when prices remained static for a while many people put houses up for sale for what they paid, plus the amount they spent moving. Stamp duty is not seen as such a bad tax when prices have risen lots, but if prices remain static, then regular moves could be seen as costing a fortune.