Fifth Of Under 25's To Leave Britain By 40

[bristolhunter]

A society that doesnt even converse in the same language isnt going to be very cohesive. Other than that its downright rude.

It can be perfectly cohesive, so long as you can interact. Communicating the way you want in a private conversation is entirely down to you - insisting on being able to eavesdrop on it? Now, that's downright rude.

[Ah-so]

Dont the locals find that a bit offensive?

Im pretty appalled when all i hear is eastern euros speaking in their own language, or the muslims in their's in this country.

If i went to live in one of their countries id at least have the good grace to learn their language.

Edit:SpAg

Do you really expect Poles to start speaking English to each other so as not to fall foul of your heightened linguistic sensitivities?

[heresjohnny]

Dont the locals find that a bit offensive?

Im pretty appalled when all i hear is eastern euros speaking in their own language, or the muslims in their's in this country.

If i went to live in one of their countries id at least have the good grace to learn their language.

Edit:SpAg

What, Muslims have their own language?

[Executive Sadman]

Why does it matter to you what language people use for private conversations? Do you work for GCHQ?

Dunno. Guess I was bought up on a staple of foreign holidays where my parents made an effort to learn some local lingo and forced me to do the same.

I know rudeness is held up as some kind of positive today, i just dont see it that way however.

[Executive Sadman]

What, Muslims have their own language?

Urdu, Punjabi, arabic it really isnt relevant what it is other than it isnt English.

[Executive Sadman]

Do you really expect Poles to start speaking English to each other so as not to fall foul of your heightened linguistic sensitivities?

I would think they would want to make a good impression as they are guests in this country, that is all. God knows the Poles have had their had their share of being occupied by foreign forces, you would think they might be a bit more sensitive to it.

[Executive Sadman]

As you can tell, this is something that really yanks my chain. Just a personal pet peeve. If you're in the country. Learn the bloody language.

[bristolhunter]

As you can tell, this is something that really yanks my chain. Just a personal pet peeve. If you're in the country. Learn the bloody language.

That's clear. But what's equally clear is that your logic is horrendously faulty. Let's try this as a multiple choice game:

"It really yanks my chain," said Executive Sadman, "when I hear eastern europeans not speaking English with each other. If you're in the country, learn the bloody language."

Executive Sadman's reasoning is most vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that:

(A) Polish is a language of devil-worshippers

( Rupert Murdoch, like all Australian-Americans owning most British media, is a God

© Chains are only built to be yanked

(D) Not eavesdropping is extremely rude

(E) Some people can speak multiple languages

[btl_hater]

For native English speakers at least, a big problem is that they are not forced to learn the language because: a) everyone speaks English as good as your average Brit. B ) They can't be arsed to mess about with you trying to speak their language (badly), so just want to speak English anyway. Obviously, in a country like France or Italy where the average person does not speak English well at all, and well, frankly doesn't want to, then you had better learn the language... but these places also have ****** all jobs so its not so much a problem.

Edited July 21, 2013 by btl_hater

[porca misèria]

Urdu, Punjabi, arabic it really isnt relevant what it is other than it isnt English.

!غرب عن وجهي

[heresjohnny]

Urdu, Punjabi, arabic it really isnt relevant what it is other than it isnt English.

My wife speaks Punjabi but she isn't a Muslim - I'm intrigued by your "logic" on this matter - please tell us more.......

[Executive Sadman]

That's clear. But what's equally clear is that your logic is horrendously faulty. Let's try this as a multiple choice game:

"It really yanks my chain," said Executive Sadman, "when I hear eastern europeans not speaking English with each other. If you're in the country, learn the bloody language."

Executive Sadman's reasoning is most vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that:

(A) Polish is a language of devil-worshippers

( Rupert Murdoch, like all Australian-Americans owning most British media, is a God

© Chains are only built to be yanked

(D) Not eavesdropping is extremely rude

(E) Some people can speak multiple languages

A) No. If ever I go to Poland id at least learn some basic phrases and do my best to converse in their language.

No.

C) No.

D) Is it really eaves dropping when its being shouted all over the place.

E) Yep. Not nearly enough.

[Executive Sadman]

My wife speaks Punjabi but she isn't a Muslim - I'm intrigued by your "logic" on this matter - please tell us more.......

The point was the biggest groups that anecdotally dont seem to want to talk in our language are Eastern euro's and muslims. Might be different where you are.

[snowflux]

Dunno. Guess I was bought up on a staple of foreign holidays where my parents made an effort to learn some local lingo and forced me to do the same.

I know rudeness is held up as some kind of positive today, i just dont see it that way however.

So when you were on holiday, you and your family conversed with one another exclusively in the language of your host country so as to avoid appearing rude to anyone overhearing??? Either you're all linguistic geniuses, or you don't have much to say each other when on holiday!

[porca misèria]

So when you were on holiday, you and your family conversed with one another exclusively in the language of your host country so as to avoid appearing rude to anyone overhearing??? Either you're all linguistic geniuses, or you don't have much to say each other when on holiday!

I prefer holidaying in countries where I speak the language. So for example, I'll travel to German- or Italian-speaking areas of the Alps rather than try to speak French.

Once went on hols to Madeira, which is Portuguese. Felt horribly helpless and stupid, when any attempt to think even the basics was liable to end up as (poor) French or Spanish.

But I'll speak English anywhere if it happens to be the best language to communicate with someone. And in genuinely international company it's easy to lose track of what language is being spoken: in Rome I sang with an international choir where rehearsals would range randomly between Italian, English and German, though languages spoken by just one or two members such as Korean, Japanese, French, Russian, Serbo-Croat and Bulgarian were sadly excluded.

[Executive Sadman]

So when you were on holiday, you and your family conversed with one another exclusively in the language of your host country so as to avoid appearing rude to anyone overhearing??? Either you're all linguistic geniuses, or you don't have much to say each other when on holiday!

My mum was, my dad less so. He usually acquired an accent and not much else!

I wasnt, which is why I tend to avoid foreign holidays now.

[snowflux]

My mum was, my dad less so. He usually acquired an accent and not much else!

I wasnt, which is why I tend to avoid foreign holidays now.

If only your mum could speak the local language, restricting your communication to that language sounds extremely impractical. I do think you are being over-sensitive. Most people like to be addressed in their own language, and it is only polite to learn the basics, like please and thank-you. But I really don't think anyone would expect you to conduct all your inter-family conversation in that language!

[PopGun]

+1 Plenty of places for educated, motivated young to move too where they don't even really need to learn the native language.

You mean London isn't the center of the universe?

[Frugal Git]

So when you were on holiday, you and your family conversed with one another exclusively in the language of your host country so as to avoid appearing rude to anyone overhearing??? Either you're all linguistic geniuses, or you don't have much to say each other when on holiday!

PMSL - the argument is completely ridiculous. I can just imagine his family going 'Co-mo es-tas? Key-ero ir a museo oy?' to each other not to offend a Spaniard.

I do think he (sadman) as a point - in general, in public if you can converse in the predominant language of the country you are in it is generally a more friendly thing to do. I frequently tell my mum off for talking to my in her mother tongue when we're out because:

1) My native tongue is English

2) Her English is stratospherically better than 99 percent of the population, indigenous or otherwise.

3) People like Sadman exist who assume that by her speaking in another language, she hasn't integrated or is incapable of speaking English.

However, if I hear two people speaking in another language when walking down the street, I really couldn't give two hoots - and I certainly don't make the asinine assumption they can't speak English because of it.

edit - ordered numerically because bracket B became an unwanted smiley.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Frugal Git

[TheBigBean]

When I read threads like these I feel very glad that I live in London. The sad part is that I can't afford to buy in London, and that one day I might have to live in the small minded mono-lingual surroundings where people worry about muslim Punjabis speaking Hindi.

People are free to speak whatever language they choose. To my mind it is a basic human right and one that has been supressed all over the world e.g. Tibetan, Kurdish etc.

[winkie]

When I read threads like these I feel very glad that I live in London. The sad part is that I can't afford to buy in London, and that one day I might have to live in the small minded mono-lingual surroundings where people worry about muslim Punjabis speaking Hindi.

People are free to speak whatever language they choose. To my mind it is a basic human right and one that has been supressed all over the world e.g. Tibetan, Kurdish etc.

You shouldn't be sad about not being able to buy in London.....London should be sad that many of the people that made London what is are no longer able to buy there......one places loss is another places gain.

[Frugal Git]

When I read threads like these I feel very glad that I live in London. The sad part is that I can't afford to buy in London, and that one day I might have to live in the small minded mono-lingual surroundings where people worry about muslim Punjabis speaking Hindi.

People are free to speak whatever language they choose. To my mind it is a basic human right and one that has been supressed all over the world e.g. Tibetan, Kurdish etc.

Couldn't agree more, apart from the living in London part which you couldn't pay me enough to do.

I remember fondly being attacked on here a while ago for having the audacity to claim that a job requiring a second language is not an part of a covert attack from the multi-culturalists who have infiltrated Whitehall on closing the job market to hard working Brits, but merely an employer stating that they would prefer a person (of whatever nationality) who can converse with international clients. It turned into a witch hunt by a couple of fools questioning my parentage, my own linguistic talents (I can speak 10 languages to varying degrees of fluency) and politics (they were convinced I supported Labour - couldn't be more wrong, every party is abhorrent IMHO). Absolutely lovely stuff.

[Austin Allegro]

I've been reading a blog about a young graduate who has set himself the challenge of self-employment by various means (online and casual real-life work) to earn an average UK graduate salary for a year.

If you can scrape a living online you might as well do it in a sunny cheap country and you'll only need a basic knowledge of the language to get by. Screw the UK and its ridiculous house prices.

Here in Budapest most of the large multinational employers use English, but you will have a much better chance of employment if you speak another language. Hungarian is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn, and the locals don't tend to expect you to speak it. You can get by with only using English - some residents never learn it.

I think what puts people off emigrating more than language is the lack of British 'culture' - eg a sizeable community of British people who are into beer, football, celebrities etc same as in the UK.

As for foreigners talking 'foreign' when abroad - I must admit it grates on me a little bit when this done loudly in public and when I am in Budapest I make the effort not to speak English loudly in public; but I think that's because I find noisy talkers annoying in any language.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Austin Allegro

[davidg]

I always thought that speaking the local working language would be a huge advantage but experience suggest that is not the case. I speak fluent French and English, I was fluent in German but rarely speak it so it would take some time to get back to a good standard, I speak some Italian.

In my working career I have seen lots of examples of total monoglots doing very well in life. it may be that monoglots bring something else to the party. One thing is that they force the locals to speak a foreign language which puts them at a disadvantage. In places like Switzerland and Germany this doesn't seem to be much of an issue for the locals. They see it as a chance to improve their English. Even in big French cities, Lyon, Grenoble, Paris, there is no problem working in English in multinational companies, for some it is the official internal language.

Most recently I worked for a guy who had spent 40 years in Geneva but spoke very little French. In his career he'd run business units with 5000 staff under him but most recently was consulting in Geneva and he had no shame about phoning anyone and barking English down the phone at them. He had an almost colonialist attitude to the natives who, by not being born British, were obviously an inferior bunch. 40 years earning a salary around the 200-250 KCHF range is not bad really, pity he blew a lot of it on bling and burds but still.

[Austin Allegro]

I always thought that speaking the local working language would be a huge advantage but experience suggest that is not the case. I speak fluent French and English, I was fluent in German but rarely speak it so it would take some time to get back to a good standard, I speak some Italian.

In my working career I have seen lots of examples of total monoglots doing very well in life. it may be that monoglots bring something else to the party. One thing is that they force the locals to speak a foreign language which puts them at a disadvantage. In places like Switzerland and Germany this doesn't seem to be much of an issue for the locals. They see it as a chance to improve their English. Even in big French cities, Lyon, Grenoble, Paris, there is no problem working in English in multinational companies, for some it is the official internal language.

Most recently I worked for a guy who had spent 40 years in Geneva but spoke very little French. In his career he'd run business units with 5000 staff under him but most recently was consulting in Geneva and he had no shame about phoning anyone and barking English down the phone at them. He had an almost colonialist attitude to the natives who, by not being born British, were obviously an inferior bunch. 40 years earning a salary around the 200-250 KCHF range is not bad really, pity he blew a lot of it on bling and burds but still.

Interesting - this was the late Alan Whicker's view also - he said it was better to speak English with an authoritative attitude, even if the person being spoken to didn't understand it, than attempt to speak the other's language badly, which puts one in an inferior position. It reminds me of the scene in 'Dad's Army' when Mainwaring says he will speak to the captured U boat commander. 'But you don't speak German, sir' protests Wilson. 'Never mind that' replies Mainwaring. 'He'll know by the tone of my voice that I'm in charge!'