sbn Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Printy printy The BOE really didnt like the Nationwide data...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspers Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) FfL again. Topic done to death on here. Any pretence that FfL has anything to do with supporting productive business finally gone. (If BoE monthly approvals go greater than 55k per month FfL will be seen to be working and you should expect HPI this year IMO.) http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20893165 Edited January 3, 2013 by jaspers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbn Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hey, what happenned to my post with link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbn Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 AH - here it is - pls merge mods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hey, what happenned to my post with link? It's in the topic with the same words, just not quotes here Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The nation's savers let out another groan of disappointment. We're going to get 18 months of FLS propping up property prices and robbing savers, until it becomes obvious that it's only benefitted the equity rich and the plug gets pulled on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The nation's savers let out another groan of disappointment. We're going to get 18 months of FLS propping up property prices and robbing savers, until it becomes obvious that it's only benefitted the equity rich and the plug gets pulled on it. As a result of FLS, I went through my tax returns with a fine tooth comb and found some bits and pieces that I wasn't claiming for. Will be corrected in my next tax return. That should reduce my contribution to FLS to virtually nothing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbn Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 At least its got rid of that ugly "House prices fall" headline. There's nothing auntie pravda does better than hide the truth from the eyes of the plebs. Well not since it paedo employing days anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So glad I moved away! It was only last night I was laughing at the high property prices in small towns with little viable work like Glastonbury. People would have a fit if the government here pulled such a direct an interfering scheme as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 There are two sides to the lending equation. Lenders with money to lend, and borrowers willing and able to take on that debt. Despite all the schemes including the latest multi-tens-of-billion pounds 'enterprise-for-house-prices' on offer, it requires borrowers willing to take that debt out. And borrowers which pass the lenders' criteria. Are plenty buyers really going to come out to buy, or upsize I doubt it. Not at these prices. Transaction numbers to wither, perhaps less so at the lower end of the market. They'd need to give me huge amounts of the funding-for-lending money directly to convince me to buy, for not interested in borrowing it to overpay. No wonder Nationwide is now reporting the market is fragile. The authorities don't seem to want to accept people have a view on house prices and want to shovel debt at them. They'll have to learn eventually. "Sellers are willing and able to hang on until prices rise to an acceptable level and so are reluctant to adjust asking prices, while buyers bide their time until the ‘right property’ at the ‘right price’ becomes available, thereby reducing market liquidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The banks aren't doing more lending because they think house prices will rise or that the UK economic outlook is set to improve significantly - they're lending because FLS has allowed them to take on more risk. The principal contributory factor for changing credit availability is given as 'market share objectives'. http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/other/monetary/ccs/creditconditionssurvey130103.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So glad I moved away! It was only last night I was laughing at the high property prices in small towns with little viable work like Glastonbury. People would have a fit if the government here pulled such a direct an interfering scheme as that. What interest rates are you getting on your savings in Ireland now then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 What interest rates are you getting on your savings in Ireland now then? AIB Deposit Rates Around 1.50% which is OK considering inflation was around 0.8% last year and house prices are still falling* (* depending on your preferred source of propaganda). I suppose the spread between interest rates and inflation is just about positive after deduction the 30% Deposit Interest Rate Tax (DIRT). One thing to bear in mind is that I don't think that new & additional taxes are included in the inflation figure, so your cost of living can go up with inflation static / falling. My biggest concern is difference between the value of property and the value of my savings as the savings are going to buy us a home and work pays for the day to day bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So glad I moved away! It was only last night I was laughing at the high property prices in small towns with little viable work like Glastonbury. People would have a fit if the government here pulled such a direct an interfering scheme as that. With good reason. Given the incalculable losses inflicted on the US taxpayer by the likes of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the UK govt ought to be draining the mortgage swamp not trying to stir up the waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingermany Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The banks aren't doing more lending because they think house prices will rise or that the UK economic outlook is set to improve significantly - they're lending because FLS has allowed them to take on more risk. The principal contributory factor for changing credit availability is given as 'market share objectives'. http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/other/monetary/ccs/creditconditionssurvey130103.pdf Still can't get my head around FLS. This is effectively government (our) money being lent to homebuyers, with the banks being paid a "handling fee" for allocating the loan. And the more of OUR money the banks lend, the more FLS reward money they can claim. This is surely just a government subsidy to house builders and other sellers of over-priced houses, with the major mortgage banks taking a risk free slice of the action. Aren't there EC rules against this sort of thing? If, when Rover was in trouble the Govt had said "we know the cars are cr@p and overpriced but we'll pay a £15K cash incentive to anyone that buys one" they'd still be making Rover 75s now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 AIB Deposit Rates Around 1.50% which is OK considering inflation was around 0.8% last year and house prices are still falling* (* depending on your preferred source of propaganda). I suppose the spread between interest rates and inflation is just about positive after deduction the 30% Deposit Interest Rate Tax (DIRT). One thing to bear in mind is that I don't think that new & additional taxes are included in the inflation figure, so your cost of living can go up with inflation static / falling. My biggest concern is difference between the value of property and the value of my savings as the savings are going to buy us a home and work pays for the day to day bills. I noticed deductions on savings are going up to at least 37% by 2014 - would be a nice little earner for the government if/when interest rates rise? In 2014 unearned income for employees will become subject to PRSI . This means that PRSI will be payable on income generated from wealth, such as rental income, investment income, dividends, interest on deposits and savings. When added to DIRT -of 33% – this means the deductions on interest eared in deposits will be 37% from 2014 (assuming DIRT stays at 33% in 2014). http://www.moneyguideireland.com/prsi-increases-in-budget-2013.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I can't say that I am too upset by this as generally it means that the wealthy (such as landlords) pay their fair share, where as in the UK they either directly or indirectly just tax the (young) landless more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koala_bear Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 As reminder FLS funds can also be used for credit card lending inc balance transfers. For accounting purposes for FLS it is the credit limit not the actual balance that counts so it can be very advantageous for banks. Hence probably why I am receiving credit card and balance transfer applications at almost pre-07 levels again. 4 since Christmas and all filed in the shredder. Is any one else also seeing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 As reminder FLS funds can also be used for credit card lending inc balance transfers. For accounting purposes for FLS it is the credit limit not the actual balance that counts so it can be very advantageous for banks. Hence probably why I am receiving credit card and balance transfer applications at almost pre-07 levels again. 4 since Christmas and all filed in the shredder. Is any one else also seeing this? Yup, the post is full of them and I'm retired . Not that I need them, I still have an unsecured £10K overdraft limit on my current account and another £10K on my credit card, although I've not used either for years as I pay the credit card by direct debit and keep my current account in credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 As reminder FLS funds can also be used for credit card lending inc balance transfers. For accounting purposes for FLS it is the credit limit not the actual balance that counts so it can be very advantageous for banks. Hence probably why I am receiving credit card and balance transfer applications at almost pre-07 levels again. 4 since Christmas and all filed in the shredder. Is any one else also seeing this? Yeah - lots of offers of long duration 0% deals. I was wondering why. Strange how the banks have chosen to game FLS and not lend to widget manufacturers... Also noticed that unsecured personal loan rates are very, very low.This Tesco loan at 5.2% for £7,500 - £15,000 caught my eye, but just 'cos the rate was so low - I am not in the borrowing game! Is it getting to the point where the paradox of thrift is kicking in. People who have the credit rating to borrow, just won't borrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koala_bear Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yeah - lots of offers of long duration 0% deals. I was wondering why. Strange how the banks have chosen to game FLS and not lend to widget manufacturers... Is it getting to the point where the paradox of thrift is kicking in. People who have the credit rating to borrow, just won't borrow? As I pointed out in early August: Say the bank gives you a card limit of £5,000 but you monthly bill never goes over £1,000 which you always pay off in full. This would allow the bank to use a large amount of the £4,000 in their investment banking division on a daily trades basis provided didn't go to silly and could balance book at the end of the day if you suddenly went on a spending spree. But to do this you need to use only your best customers who don't actually need to borrow (presumably why my credit limits have gone up too...) None of the other FLS options gives this room for financial creativity. The banks could even do some short term lending to Wonga etc. and both parties would still make a tasty profit. FLS = SLS 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koala_bear Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Also noticed that unsecured personal loan rates are very, very low.This Tesco loan at 5.2% for £7,500 - £15,000 caught my eye, but just 'cos the rate was so low - I am not in the borrowing game! At that rate I could see people borrowing their BTL deposits (like the old days) and managing to make it work if IRs don't go any where soon :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 At that rate I could see people borrowing their BTL deposits (like the old days) and managing to make it work if IRs don't go any where soon :angry: I'm still of the opinion that the 25% deposit requirement for BTL will hugely impair their ability to bid up prices, and I'm quite keen that they should provide the transactions on the way down. There must be a significant portion of the UK who will not learn that you cannot always make money speculating on property until they have personally lost their shirts (and their primary residence) trying to do exactly that. I encourage them to fill their boots. I really think that we're almost there. To borrow something another poster said, London will keep going up till it starts going down. The fact that the South East is now flat indicates that London is running out of steam. If those of us who are bears are about house prices are wrong, the distortions of the proper functioning of the economy will have to be so perverse and thorough going that in due course everyone will wish that we had been right! To keep prices here or get them moving up we will have to move from money being a little bit busted to being totally broken or dead. And nobody in their right mind could want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The BOE is completely and utterly incompetent. Forcing down the cost of borrowing and flooding the nation with credit hasn't made anything any better, so guess what their new plan is? You got it. Flood the country with credit and force down the cost of borrowing. Their stupidity is quite frankly astonishing. Not one amongst them has an ounce of sense. Having their abject stupidity forced upon me is is criminal. At least we are getting rid of that moron King. He got caught committing large scale fraud and really should be spending a few years in a US prison. That would be poetic justice. He would get to experience lack of personal space for himself,rancid maggot that he is. No doubt tptb will protect him, though. Pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Having their plan abject stupidity forced upon me is is criminal. At least we are getting rid of that moron King. ...rancid maggot that he is. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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