Sour Mash Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 None of which changes the fact we are currently in an extreme case of all the above situations, knowing house prices will not be overpriced in the future doesn't help anyone wanting to buy now, if anything it makes them put off the purchase. Sorry - but have people suddenly forgotten the concept of waiting until conditions are more favourable before they do something. Virtually no-one needs to buy 'now'. Any adult human above subnormal intelligence level should be capable of waiting (and saving more money for a deposit in the process) for the market to cycle. I also had to look for work in the era you mention, it doesn't approach the situation now, particularly if you are straight from school or Uni and have no experience, there are any number of foreign workers who have experience, training and will work for wages previously only first jobbers or students would work for, this situation has only really arisen in the last 5 or so years. Try finding any company running graduate or apprentice courses anywhere When I left uni there was next to nothing available for graduates - companies were simply snapping up experienced workers who had been laid off, for graduate level jobs/wages. It wasn't unusual to see 30-40 candidates for the jobs I was applying for, IF the companies even bothered to give you a shot at an interview (I would say about 1/2 of the application letters I wrote weren't even acknowledged). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 ....and watch the value of the cash in that ISA depreciate there isn't any reward for saving these days, so for a lot of people, they would rather enjoy what they earn rather than it sitting in an account making bugger all... If they scrimp and save as hard as they can they save a ridiculously low proportion of what they need to live in squalor. It's not worth it. If they're worried about inflation, why not a Stocks and Shares ISA or a gold sovereign? If it's being saved as a house deposit, cash is fine despite low/no interest: house prices are dropping every month, so each £1 buys more house the longer they wait. It is a tough time for young people right now, but those who behave prudently now will be the best placed to capitalise when conditions improve. Those who blew their money on ipads and holidays will still not get a house even in 10 years time when price:earnings ratio is more normal, because they will have blown their potential deposit. The message to young people shouldn't be to give up. It should be: patience. Someone aged 22 in 1989 who saved their money would by 1995 be 28 with a nice deposit fund to cash in the house price trough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The employment market is always hard for young people, especially when we have a nasty recession. I had the pleasure of looking for my first proper job in the recession of the early 90s. I ended up doing further education, a variety of make-work 'vocational training' type courses and then a series of low-paid, short term contracts before I finally got something approaching a decently paid permanent job in the late 90s. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Your words are wise Mr Ever-Cycling-Cookie! I remember the early 90s very well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The big problem today is it is becoming harder for a higher percentage of young people.....there will always be the few that will succeed be it nature or nurture......in the late 70s early 80s a kid could make it leaving school with no qualifications, coming from the wrong school as well as coming from a working class poor background. It's harder for kids from a poorer working class background to make it because higher level education is now more about "how much money can you afford" than "how is your academic aptitude". I was able to make it through university with fees paid by the state and a decent grant. I could even 'sign on' over the Summer, for the first couple of years anyway. Students these days get next to nothing and have to pay fees out of their own pockets. Certainly, looking at students in the city where I studied, today, shows a much higher level of wealth than was common when I was studying. Many have cars - unheard of when I was at Uni - and most seem to be sporting decent clothes and flashy smartphones. Certainly no shortage of students in the usual haunts paying the sorts of silly prices for drinks that we are all subjected to. I can only conclude that the proportion of 'privileged' kids (with well off parents) has increased in the last decade or two at the expense of those with parents unable to provide funding for their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Students these days get next to nothing and have to pay fees out of their own pockets. True and very sad. Tony Blair's "50% should go to uni" policy was IMHO one of Labour's very worst. We should have 50 unis instead of 100, and only 25% should be going to uni. And it should be free for them. We don't need an army of graduates - we need the very cleverest at uni and the rest doing useful productive work ASAP instead of racking up debt studying things they'll never use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) True and very sad. Tony Blair's "50% should go to uni" policy was IMHO one of Labour's very worst. We should have 50 unis instead of 100, and only 25% should be going to uni. And it should be free for them. We don't need an army of graduates - we need the very cleverest at uni and the rest doing useful productive work ASAP instead of racking up debt studying things they'll never use. i think you are giving Blair too much credit, the policy of students doing non degrees started long before he was running things , heading back to before and fundamentally when the polys changed, and Blair is still a complete amateur compared to the current lot, getting desperate kids to take on 50K of undefaultable debt (rather than tax so it is collateral) to do a multiyear degree in Golf Course Husbandry and continue to keep the unemployment figures down and only at the small cost of some hard core littering of tower Bridge pre election, pure genius, Bill Murray would no doubt laugh his ass off Edited March 30, 2012 by Georgia O'Keeffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Sorry - but have people suddenly forgotten the concept of waiting until conditions are more favourable before they do something. Virtually no-one needs to buy 'now'. How long? Mortgages are 25 years, if you graduated in 2000 at aged 20 you've got until 2020 before you're 40 and likely unable to get a mortgage. 8 years from now. Are we going to have 50% drops or doubling of salaries within 8 years? Some people will never be able to buy because of when they were born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 £9000 a year on an apprenticeship upon leaving school in 1990?! Many full time graduate jobs weren't paying as much as that in the mid ninties, never mind early. £9000 = £140/week? Pretty much exactly what I earned as an apprentice starting in 1990, and it went up every birthday too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmf Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How long? Mortgages are 25 years, if you graduated in 2000 at aged 20 you've got until 2020 before you're 40 and likely unable to get a mortgage. 8 years from now. Are we going to have 50% drops or doubling of salaries within 8 years? Some people will never be able to buy because of when they were born. That's the year I graduated in. Got better and better jobs but could never increase my wage as fast as prices were rising. After a bit I questioned the status quo and realised it was unsustainable. Hadn't figured they were going to trash the whole country trying to defend house prices. Sorry to say it but the only way to lead a normal life for people my age is to emigrate. If you can't change the system change the system you are in. Sad to be pushed out my country but not so sad I want to ruin my kid's lives too. If you think it's going to get better, well, good luck with that. If prices drop the country is equally screwed. The reason we had high prices was to hide the fact that the country is insolvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) £9000 = £140/week? Pretty much exactly what I earned as an apprentice starting in 1990, and it went up every birthday too! 1990 was a defining year, i remember watching Teenage Ninja Turtles, and i think soon after the rot set in, alot of the current youth never had a sensei of any sort, let alone one with the gravitas of splinter to guide them through their impressionable years Edited March 30, 2012 by Georgia O'Keeffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 1990 was a defining year, i remember watching Teenage Ninja Turtles, and i think soon after the rot set in, alot of the current youth never had a sensei of any sort, let alone one with the gravitas of splinter to guide them through their impressionable years Indeed. The youth of today think that Michelangelo was an artist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Indeed. The youth of today think that Michelangelo was an artist! I spent months arguing with the other half that the Gregorian calender until recently used to have just 11 months and April was only added as a homage to the Journalistic integrity of Ms O Neil Edited March 31, 2012 by Georgia O'Keeffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 1990 was a defining year, i remember watching Teenage Ninja Turtles, and i think soon after the rot set in, alot of the current youth never had a sensei of any sort, let alone one with the gravitas of splinter to guide them through their impressionable years Funnily enough I know exactly what you're getting at and sympathise with the view. However the current batch of 18/19/20 year olds that I know are an impressive bunch who are getting utterly shafted by prevailing circumstances. The worst thing is that they're not even aware of the extent to which they are suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 £9000 a year on an apprenticeship upon leaving school in 1990?! Many full time graduate jobs weren't paying as much as that in the mid ninties, never mind early. This was with the MoD. Wish I'd stayed there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How long? Mortgages are 25 years, if you graduated in 2000 at aged 20 you've got until 2020 before you're 40 and likely unable to get a mortgage. 8 years from now. Are we going to have 50% drops or doubling of salaries within 8 years? Some people will never be able to buy because of when they were born. Is this true? Can't a 41 year old get a mortgage now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGGY Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Indeed. The youth of today think that Michelangelo was an artist! Ummm, he was...there was also a turtle by the same name, I think that one was a ninja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Funnily enough I know exactly what you're getting at and sympathise with the view. However the current batch of 18/19/20 year olds that I know are an impressive bunch who are getting utterly shafted by prevailing circumstances. The worst thing is that they're not even aware of the extent to which they are suffering. When I look at some children now and see how much their parents spoil them and wrap them in cotton wool it is hardly surprising they get a huge culture shock when they find themselves entering the real world...... ...going back to 1990 the year of transformation....what opened my eyes to how things had rapidly changed, mostly with marketing, advertising, the craving for material possessions, being better than the rest, was the fights and panics that went on to get the must have very expensive plastic toy for Christmas, the manufacturers purposely reduced the supply to create a demand and it worked, people fell for it, and they still do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 That might work if you're a male of the species. Unfortunately Mrs beans won't be able to put these things off as long. One of the many reasons why high house prices are so socially damaging. And boomers wonder why they have no grandchildren. Idiots. Idiot! so called 'boomers' actualy do give a fk about their kids prospects. Perhaps you need to take a closer look at so called Gen X, who are in fact the current perpitrators of todays paradigm, ie they are the government and they are the bankers making all the rules and holding onto the current status quo. Its also gen x who got their first 10-15 years working life in an expanding financial situation with the cheapest house prices ever to start with and the best paid careers ever. If you really believe that BBoomers set up the high house price era then its you, yes you who is setting up todays situation, after all gen x+y is now the main voting demographic and thus have the say so on everything that the government decides. Or being more realistic, you dont, just as previous generations dont on accout of the govenrments of all eras exclusively look after the vested interests first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) That's the year I graduated in. Got better and better jobs but could never increase my wage as fast as prices were rising. After a bit I questioned the status quo and realised it was unsustainable. Hadn't figured they were going to trash the whole country trying to defend house prices. Sorry to say it but the only way to lead a normal life for people my age is to emigrate. If you can't change the system change the system you are in. Sad to be pushed out my country but not so sad I want to ruin my kid's lives too. If you think it's going to get better, well, good luck with that. If prices drop the country is equally screwed. The reason we had high prices was to hide the fact that the country is insolvent. Sad to say but I believe you are right, the UK is a beautiful country, has great landscape and history but to be honest economically it is totally screwed up. If you were able to buy when prices were low or bought a council house off of Dear Margaret Thatcher and then used it to buy more properties which you flipped, yes you have probably done well and are now congratulating yourself about how "clever" and prudent you were....you weren't, you were lucky to benefit from a bubble, and a one off political giveaway by the government of the day, probably got your degree paid for by the state, and probably went to just as many parties, or got drunk just as regularly (students haven't changed that much over the years) as students do now, or you were just that boring introvert that every group has, you also probably benefited from company training schemes (graduate or otherwise) which allowed you to get the job you have now, no matter how "tough" you had it finding a job, trust me it pales into insignificance with the task facing young people today. One thing many people who would have young people behave like robots forget is that you are going to die, ...............so am I sadly and so is every other human and animal you will ever meet. When your life flashes before you do you want it to be images of endless drudgery, soulless offices and miserable colleagues, or do you want it to be of foreign locations, parties, and the faces of friends you really enjoyed being with, .....and of your children, having a family in the UK is a big financial challenge. I spent most of my life in the UK as a cog in the machine, I made some good money but in the main I got older. In the last couple of years I have worked in Germany and now the Netherlands, the thing I have found in both countries is food, public transport and utility bills are very cheap (well to a Southerner anyway ), Government and the tax authorities are far more helpful, in the Netherlands mortgage interest is refunded by the government, and after you have worked a few years if you are made redundant benefits are paid at 70% of last salary for a period dependent on the contributions you put in (after 5 years I think it's something like a year), benefits here would make a lot of people on this board speechless, (no the UK doesn't have the most lavish benefits system, actually pretty mediocre particularly compared to many Northern European countries, I'm not even going to mention Scandinavia, would be enough to give some on here an aneurysm) , bank charges pretty much don't exist, and from working in both locations I now have dozens of friends who I go out with regularly, at good restaurants and bars in very nice locations with cheap edible food, oh and due to low fees in the pensions industry the average Dutchman gets double the pension a Brit will get for the same contributions In the UK I lived on microwave ready meals or snacks from the Spar or Co Op, now I mostly buy fresh food and prepare it myself basically because food is so cheap and I don't spend hours either stuck on the M25 or the train. Yes owning your own house is prudent, yes saving is a good idea, but not to the exclusion of everything else. I can't think of a developed country which is as miserable as the UK as a place to live right now, my advice to any young person is travel abroad and find a country that suits you, in the UK unless you have money you will get nowhere and face a life of drudgery to buy a mean little pile of bricks which will either pay for your care home when you get older, or when you die your kids (if you managed to have any) may get just over half the value after tax, or the government gets it To any young person I'd say Investigate where you'd like to live, go there a few times to check (look for cheap offers on RyanAir or Easyjet), look for work there and then move, leave the people with their "£40k to build, now valued at £250,000" 3 bed pre war semi detached palaces to it Edited March 31, 2012 by madpenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Ummm, he was...there was also a turtle by the same name, I think that one was a ninja. No income, no job, no assets? ******ing scrubber. Those turtles, coming here, claiming asylum, taking our benefits, stealing our women. Send the buggers back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 When your life flashes before you do you want it to be images of endless drudgery, soulless offices and miserable colleagues, or do you want it to be of foreign locations, parties, and the faces of friends you really enjoyed being with, .....and of your children, having a family in the UK is a big financial challenge. I spent most of my life in the UK as a cog in the machine, I made some good money but in the main I got older. I'm pleased your decision to move abroad worked for you, but surely if someone's life is "endless drudgery in a soulless office" the first port of call is to get a new job, not leave the country? For starters, work doesn't have to mean office work. I had a friend who hated his office job, and moved to teaching - which is harder work on half the pay, but he enjoys it much more. Another moved from the office to open his own furniture shop. You can live in the UK without being a "cog in the machine". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) I'm pleased your decision to move abroad worked for you, but surely if someone's life is "endless drudgery in a soulless office" the first port of call is to get a new job, not leave the country? For starters, work doesn't have to mean office work. I had a friend who hated his office job, and moved to teaching - which is harder work on half the pay, but he enjoys it much more. Another moved from the office to open his own furniture shop. You can live in the UK without being a "cog in the machine". I worked freelance for 20 odd years in the UK , mostly for large corporates, 6-12 month contracts usually, and as a result I worked for quite a few companies, there are very few places I would go back to. Personally I find work and lifestyle is much better outside the UK, all the British guys working in my office (4) currently say they will never go back, and have brought their families with them and got local mortgages, their wives and kids seem pretty happy with the decision too, I know mine was The examples you give might work ok particularly in the North of the UK where cost of living isn't such a factor and of course where and how you live is your own choice, personally I love the work I do (IT) and couldn't see myself changing career, most ofthe problem in the UK comes from management syle, the companies I've worked for over here have been far more worker friendly, in Germany senior management ate, and chatted with everyone else at lunchtime and there was much less a "them and us" attitude and the Dutch managers I've worked with are similer One problem with changing careers is acceptance, I know of very few employers who will take staff with no previous experience, you can of course go self employed but that can bring it's own worries. If your happy in the UK great, but for many particularly young people with no house, no chance of getting one, and fierce competition for jobs they would be better off leaving right now, even if they want to come back after a few years they will at least have some language skills, and knowledge of other countries way of conducting business which may give them an edge looking for work when they do come back Edited March 31, 2012 by madpenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Personally I find work and lifestyle is much better outside the UK, all the British guys working in my office (4) currently say they will never go back ... If your happy in the UK great, but for many particularly young people with no house, no chance of getting one, and fierce competition for jobs they would be better off leaving right now I think enjoying working and living abroad is a personality more than a financial thing. I'm not surprised you and your colleagues love it - after all, presumably that's why you moved? But when you have friends, families, sports clubs, etc in the UK that you don't want to leave, then that is a lot to give up even for a job or a house. Some of my family have tried living abroad. One guy lives in the US and is doing well, another tried to go to Spain and it was a disaster as her little son just wilted in the heat. They came back. Horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think enjoying working and living abroad is a personality more than a financial thing. I'm not surprised you and your colleagues love it - after all, presumably that's why you moved? But when you have friends, families, sports clubs, etc in the UK that you don't want to leave, then that is a lot to give up even for a job or a house. Some of my family have tried living abroad. One guy lives in the US and is doing well, another tried to go to Spain and it was a disaster as her little son just wilted in the heat. They came back. Horses for courses. I agree this isn't for everyone if your happy generally then fine, but there are plenty of people who aren't As I said earlier if you are considering moving properly investigate a country before you look for work in a particular place and definitely visit first, if you walk into something without investigating first then of course you'll probably fail, I check rent, tax, cost of living, and where is the best place to live, everywhere has areas best avoided no matter how developed, I'm the same as your family member I don't like heat either that's why I didn't even look at Spain, (though if you do property is pretty cheap there now!) As a matter of fact most of the Brits where I work are there because they couldn't get decent work in the UK, myself included, since the vast influx of ICT's from India over the last few years to the UK, IT jobs have become a lot more scarce and advertised salaries seem to be dropping, a lot of contract jobs have gone now due to onshoring of ICT's , also in my case my age could also be against me, though it seems to have worked in my favor with this job. I'm not saying where I live now is paradise but the climates almost identical to the UK, it's a 50 minute flight away,and I communicate regularly with my family using Skype, together with flights over once a month. Maybe a better question is why is the UK so bad at the moment, wasn't always like this, but then again that subject has been done to death in these forums every day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmf Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think enjoying working and living abroad is a personality more than a financial thing. I'm not surprised you and your colleagues love it - after all, presumably that's why you moved? But when you have friends, families, sports clubs, etc in the UK that you don't want to leave, then that is a lot to give up even for a job or a house. Some of my family have tried living abroad. One guy lives in the US and is doing well, another tried to go to Spain and it was a disaster as her little son just wilted in the heat. They came back. Horses for courses. I'm seriously considering it because the UK isn't a meritocracy. Stay and exist for the benefit of the older generation. The demographics say loads of cash into elderly care and pensions. Not doing that whilst my kids school gets even more crowded whilst we rent, trying to ignore the lack of provision for our future, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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