cybernoid Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The examples you give might work ok particularly in the North of the UK where cost of living isn't such a factor and of course where and how you live is your own choice, personally I love the work I do (IT) and couldn't see myself changing career, most ofthe problem in the UK comes from management syle, the companies I've worked for over here have been far more worker friendly, in Germany senior management ate, and chatted with everyone else at lunchtime and there was much less a "them and us" attitude and the Dutch managers I've worked with are similer Have to agree, if you spend a substantial amount of time out of the uk you do begin to see how class obsessed it is, whether you own or rent also effects how you are treated in the uk, a symptom of a similar problem. People tend to treat one another much more as equals outside the uk, its very refreshing. The uk is a basket case, spend some time outside looking in and it is all too apparent. As to the examples of outside office working, wouldn't that be great if it was possible! How long did the guy making his own furniture last? Sounds idyllic, hand shaping furniture out back and wandering to the shop front at the gentle tinkle of the bell on the door as another customer comes in. How can you make enough to live on in the uk doing something like that? I can't believe it, rents are too high both for shops and for a persons cost of living. I can imagine it on the continent, where renting cheaply is actually possible without having to live in some benefit chavs estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 As to the examples of outside office working, wouldn't that be great if it was possible! How long did the guy making his own furniture last? Sounds idyllic, hand shaping furniture out back and wandering to the shop front at the gentle tinkle of the bell on the door as another customer comes in. He's only just started this year - so yes it could end up a disaster! I think he's just selling it, not making it. My point is more that as well as taking a risk to improve your lot by moving abroad, you can do the same and remain within the UK. In my immediate family, i'm the only one with a "true" office job. There are alternatives. I agree that they don't always pay as well. I don't think the UK is a basket case. I think the current situation of all the world's manufacturing being done in China is totally untenable, and within 10-20 years we'll see it dramatically reverse. However, I can totally understand why some of you would want to work abroad in the meantime - I just caution those still in the UK and thinking of it that emigration only works if you have the right mindset and do your research. It isn't an answer for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) He's only just started this year - so yes it could end up a disaster! I think he's just selling it, not making it. My point is more that as well as taking a risk to improve your lot by moving abroad, you can do the same and remain within the UK. In my immediate family, i'm the only one with a "true" office job. There are alternatives. I agree that they don't always pay as well. I don't think the UK is a basket case. I think the current situation of all the world's manufacturing being done in China is totally untenable, and within 10-20 years we'll see it dramatically reverse. However, I can totally understand why some of you would want to work abroad in the meantime - I just caution those still in the UK and thinking of it that emigration only works if you have the right mindset and do your research. It isn't an answer for everyone. Big problem in the UK is just basic costs, one of my relatives makes home made biscuits for her dogs, while in Germany I saw a woman opening a shop selling just that, home made dog biscuits, and it was certainly still open 7 months later when I left, can you see anyone even going a month with that idea here?, business rates alone would kill it, this is the problem, the UK needs to drastically reduce costs for small business in order that anyone can make money from simple ideas, you should be able to turn any hobby into a business, the diversity and specialisation of German shops in particular is astounding, one long time shop there sold cash registers for stores...just that nothing else! Our Government is obsessed with the big guys, but with lots of small businesses you get creativity, specialisation and new businesses which eventually flow through the system, Germany's export prowess comes as much from lots of small engineering firms as it does from the bigger businesses Edited April 1, 2012 by madpenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmf Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Big problem in the UK is just basic costs, one of my relatives makes home made biscuits for her dogs, while in Germany I saw a woman opening a shop selling just that, home made dog biscuits, and it was certainly still open 7 months later when I left, can you see anyone even going a month with that idea here?, business rates alone would kill it, this is the problem, the UK needs to drastically reduce costs for small business in order that anyone can make money from simple ideas, you should be able to turn any hobby into a business, the diversity and specialisation of German shops in particular is astounding, one long time shop there sold cash registers for stores...just that nothing else! Our Government is obsessed with the big guys, but with lots of small businesses you get creativity and new businesses which eventually flow through the system, Germany's export prowess comes as much from lots of small engineering firms as it does from the bigger businesses Right - next foreign holiday is Germany. All the things I read about this country make it sound far superior to the UK. Time for an emigration rekkie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Right - next foreign holiday is Germany. All the things I read about this country make it sound far superior to the UK. Time for an emigration rekkie. things will change soon...these "firewalls" and "bailouts" cost money that isnt coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmf Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 things will change soon...these "firewalls" and "bailouts" cost money that isnt coming back. Perhaps, but they do have industry. If you cancelled all UK debt today we'd be in debt again tomorrow and would never get out. I don't think this is true of Germany as they can export to countries further afield than the PIGS. I don't buy all this "they rely on exports too much" crap. As if it's easier to rely too much on imports so the UK is in a stronger position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Perhaps, but they do have industry. If you cancelled all UK debt today we'd be in debt again tomorrow and would never get out. I don't think this is true of Germany as they can export to countries further afield than the PIGS. I don't buy all this "they rely on exports too much" crap. As if it's easier to rely too much on imports so the UK is in a stronger position. There is merit in what you say...but, 4 years ago, Asia was said to be "decoupled"....today, they are suffering as the West is cutting spending. I suspect Germany isnt as decoupled from Europe as some might suggest. As for the dog biscuit shop....yes you are 100% correct...If you dont have premises you need to get some, and that is the highest cost today for a new enterprise that needs premises...the next highest being labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 My point is more that as well as taking a risk to improve your lot by moving abroad, you can do the same and remain within the UK. The basic costs are too high to get anything off the ground without a large upfront investment. If you've a massive personal rent bill to pay and a large commercial rent to pay for your business premises you've a hell of a hill to climb before you've even started. You can work from home depending on what you're doing but again you've large rent to pay. Only way I can see is to either get a large upfront investment from somewhere (unlikely) or to restrict your business to that which can be done from home. Move abroad, pay much lower basic costs for your home and get things going. You'll be making enough to live on far sooner when your personal costs are so much lower. Then decide if you want to go back to the uk when you can afford to. My guess is once you're out of the madhouse you wont be keen on going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) things will change soon...these "firewalls" and "bailouts" cost money that isnt coming back. Thing is it's a question of basic capability, if you have the capability to earn lots or income both within and outside your borders debt is serious but not fatal. Go to a German store and much of what you can buy was made in Germany in the case of things like kitchen appliances etc. The UK isn't a total basket case and we do have other industries other than finance such as pharmaceuticals, we just don't make enough of them, and we make business too expensive at all levels which is why UK business is outsource crazy when it comes to manufacturing Edited April 1, 2012 by madpenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Perhaps, but they do have industry. If you cancelled all UK debt today we'd be in debt again tomorrow and would never get out. I don't think this is true of Germany as they can export to countries further afield than the PIGS. I don't buy all this "they rely on exports too much" crap. As if it's easier to rely too much on imports so the UK is in a stronger position. Here in a nutshell is the UK's problem we don't have a viable model for our economy, if we were an economic powerhouse we probably wouldn't even have had this thread started in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Thing is it's a question of basic capability, if you have the capability to earn lots or income both within and outside your borders debt is serious but not fatal. Go to a German store and much of what you can buy was made in Germany in the case of things like kitchen appliances etc. The UK isn't a total basket case and we do have other industries other than finance such as pharmaceuticals, we just don't make enough of them, and we make business too expensive which is why UK business is outsource crazy when it comes to manufacturing again, true enough, but debt is always a killer when it is imposed for no good reason....these bailouts are just a waste of effort...they aint gonna work....and if they continue, the tax burden will finish the strongest of economies. I pray it all stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpenguin Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) again, true enough, but debt is always a killer when it is imposed for no good reason....these bailouts are just a waste of effort...they aint gonna work....and if they continue, the tax burden will finish the strongest of economies. I pray it all stops. I agree, but it's a problem for all the major Western economies at present, the US has huge amounts of debt, the UK the same, especially if you include all those PFI agreements and it's hard to see how they will manage the interest (QE presumably has limits), and the Eastern "Tiger economies" are very dependent on Western demand. These are interesting times economically but not in a good way. Edited April 1, 2012 by madpenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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