interestrateripoff Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,816498,00.html EU Should Admit Greece is BankruptFirst things first: this commentary isn't directed against Greece. It's got nothing to do with all the talk in Germany about Greek citizens not paying their taxes, Greek civil servants who don't work or Greek politicians who break their promises. This commentary has a clear and simple message: The second Greek bailout of €130 billion ($172 billion) that euro zone finance ministers are expected to agree on Monday afternoon should not be paid out. Sure, Greece will need help from the other European Union member states for years, possibly even decades, and Germany shouldn't refuse that help. Europe will likely end up pumping far more money into Greece in the coming years than the fresh aid now being discussed in Brussels. From Der Speigel a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Coates Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Argentine advice for the Greeks...Default now and go back to the Drachma http://www.hellenesonline.com/go/2012/02/argentine-advice-for-greece-default-now/ Edited February 26, 2012 by Ned Coates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Greeks work longer hours than Germans Figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show that the average Greek worker toils away for 2,017 hours per year which is more than any other European country. Out of the 34 members of the OECD, that is just two places behind the board leaders, South Korea. On the other hand, the average German worker - normally thought of as the very epitome of industriousness - only manages 1,408 hours a year. Germany is 33rd out of 34 on the OECD list (or 24th out of 25 looking at the European countries alone). [/url] Yanis Varoufakis @yanisvaroufakis Greeks work more hrs than any other European. But are 8th from the bottom productivity-wise. Lower wages won't fix this Perhaps nobody told Schauble https://twitter.com/#%21/yanisvaroufakis' rel="external nofollow"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Greeks work longer hours than Germans Perhaps nobody told Schauble does that include public sector workers? And of course, turning up, reading the paper, doing the lottery and general chit chat doesnt really count as work, but it does count as hours. Ask and french Fonctionaire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Greeks work longer hours than Germans Looking at other stuff on the OECD site.... Since 1997 debt to GDP for Greece has a minimum of 103.6% in 1999 France complain about having a credit downgrade and say why not the UK France was 52.1% in 2007 and 67.4 in 2010 up 29% UK 42.7% in 2007 and 85.5 in 2010 up 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) So what happens when the Greeks have an election? In anticipation of the obvious response to that line... What happens when the Greeks revolt? And... How will the EU deal with a member who has an extremist government? The next few years are going to be interesting me thinks! Edit to correct the "Edward Sausage hands" post Edited February 26, 2012 by Roman Roady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 does that include public sector workers? And of course, turning up, reading the paper, doing the lottery and general chit chat doesnt really count as work, but it does count as hours. Ask and french Fonctionaire. The article ascribes it to the largely agrarian Greek economy of self-employed farmers contrasted with the highly mechanised German manufacturing economy. Amongst other reasons. Perhaps you've been reading too many right wing German tabloids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The article ascribes it to the largely agrarian Greek economy of self-employed farmers contrasted with the highly mechanised German manufacturing economy. Amongst other reasons. Perhaps you've been reading too many right wing German tabloids? cant read German. farmers will work many hours...they may not even acheive an income. Fonctionaires are a joke in france. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 cant read German. farmers will work many hours...they may not even acheive an income. Fonctionaires are a joke in france. Yes but . . . is factory work any better? Is producing 1000 gearbox grommets a day more rewarding, satisfying or valid than producing a small crop of olives? Somehow Merkel has the idea it's more virtuous. The German model would never have worked without armies of desperate Turks ready to do some of the most soul-destroying production line jobs on the planet. Cue for James Taylor Millwork ain't easy Millwork ain't hard Millwork it ain't nuthin, but an awful boring job I'm waiting for a daydream, to take me through the morning To put me in my coffee break where I can have sandwich And it's me an my machine, for the rest of the morning For the rest of the afternoon For the rest of my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It won't be over till the fat lady sings and that is a way off yet... Meanwhile back in Athens... From a Greek paper As a political outcry grew on Friday over the revelation that an MP had transferred 1 million euros out of the country in May when authorities were struggling to appease Greek citizens’ fears of the repercussions of a possible default on their savings, Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos told Parliament that a significant number of lawmakers had moved sums in excess of 100,000 euros out of the country. I keep seeing a date of March 26th when the dominoes will fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Deutschland Mobilising Tax Troops To Call On Greeks Bailout Macht Frei Berlin wants to send German inspectors to Greece to ensure all taxes that are due are collected.The controversial move will see a 'foreign legion' of 160 or so taxmen head south to try and root out corruption and make sure national coffers are filled in a country where revenue evasion is an art form. Finance department secretary of state Hans Bernhard Beus announced his plan to the WirtschaftsWoche business magazine. Greece views such an offer as 'humiliating' and believes it to be one more attempt by Germany to take control of the nation piece by piece. Beus' description of his tax squad as 'volunteers' is meant to reduce the tensions between the two countries. Another finance official, Thomas Schaefer of the state of Hesse, said he was looking at calling up a 'dad's army' of retired tax officials to move into Greece to help find the estimated £15 to 20bn in annual undeclared income. 'It would be possible to mobilise such people with large practical experience quite easily,' he said. It'll all be over by Christmas . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Beus' description of his tax squad as 'volunteers' is meant to reduce the tensions between the two countries. More "volunteers". It seems to be the buzz word throughout europe these days whether it's Tesco, Poundland ....or Greece. (volunteers required - > you you you and you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9106990/Debt-crisis-live.html 09.43 While there have been suggestions over the weekend that Greece would be better-placed to restore its financial health outside the single currency, an economic adviser to the country's prime minister indicated yesterday that Greece could not imagine leaving the eurozone.Ghikas Hardouvelis, economic advisor to Lucas Papademos, told the newspaper, To Vima, that: "We want to rebuild the country and not let it be plundered." He added that Greece would face steep inflation, massive wage cuts and the destruction of current healthy business if it quits the euro. Surely they mean comic advisor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 http://www.telegraph...risis-live.html Surely they mean comic advisor? no, its a planet friendly gnome from Gringotts. eco-gnomic advisor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 09.35 In case you missed it yesterday, here's Liam Halligan writing in The Sunday Telegraph on how soaring oil prices will dwarf the Greek drama: This Greek drama has a long way to run, then, but global markets remain determinedly "risk-on". After months of angst, this rally feels too good to worry about awkward questions. The S&P 500 chalked-up yet another post-Lehman record last week, amid signs of improving US consumer sentiment. In Asia, the Japanese Nikkei 225 reached a 7-week high, while the euro itself managed a 10-week peak against the dollar. Enough of Europe, though. Despite the eurozone's overwhelming ability to set the tone in terms of global investor sentiment, other economic indicators deserve attention – not least the price of oil. Brent crude hit a nine-month high on Friday, breaking through $125 (£79) a barrel. While the black stuff remains $24 below the all-time nominal peak of July 2008, it is now above those levels in terms of both sterling and the euro. Oil prices are up 14pc since the start of the year. That's obviously bad news for the big Western energy-importers, the UK included, that are struggling to generate sustainable economic recovery. The point about the oil price seems to support Mervyn's "zig zag" view of the UK economy rather than Bean's "recovery in the 2nd half of this year" view. Mervyn might well be being optimistic and the economy just zagging. Oil prices at near 2008 peak level won't be doing much for the Greek economy either - in or out of the eurozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 The point about the oil price seems to support Mervyn's "zig zag" view of the UK economy rather than Bean's "recovery in the 2nd half of this year" view. Mervyn might well be being optimistic and the economy just zagging. Oil prices at near 2008 peak level won't be doing much for the Greek economy either - in or out of the eurozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Mervyn's flag. All it needs is a national anthem to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Mervyn's flag. All it needs is a national anthem to go with it. Spice Girls - Wannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9106990/Debt-crisis-live.html 14.43 The head of the EC, Jose Manuel Barroso, will meet Greek PM Lucas Papademos on Wednesday to talk about getting the country back to growth, focusing on "immediate action to mobilise Greek growth potential", according to a Commission statement. Ah yes the old mobilising the growth potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9106990/Debt-crisis-live.html 14.19 Merkel says there is no 100pc guarantee that the second bailout for Greece will succeed. But the benefits outweight the risks, she says. Or rather giving away taxpayer money is better than the political elites having to admit they've failed with the Euro project. It does appear odds on the 2nd bailout won't work as there's already talk of a 3rd bailout if the Greeks aren't ejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 http://www.oecd.org/document/50/0,3746,en_21571361_44315115_49743602_1_1_1_1,00.html 24/02/12 - Structural reforms can make the difference as countries seek to rebound from the crisis, boost growth and create jobs, according to the OECD’s latest Going for Growth report."The crisis has acted as a catalyst for reforms. While they are sometimes unpopular, painful or both, they are necessary to make longer term growth stronger, more sustainable and more equitable," said OECD Secretary-General Angel Gurría (read the full speech). "We know that these efforts will pay dividends in the future, which is why governments must keep up the reform momentum," Mr Gurría said. Go Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Greece Ratings Cut to Selective Default by S&P Not long to go now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Greece Ratings Cut to Selective Default by S&P Not long to go now So will the ISDA people have to confirm this default for the mayhem to start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So will the ISDA people have to confirm this default for the mayhem to start? Sounds like it all hinges on the outcome of the PSI negotiations now. Per Reuters S&P said that once the debt exchange is concluded, it will likely raise Greece's sovereign credit rating to the 'CCC' category. What they are saying is, if an agreement is not found, all bets are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Greece currently gets a lot of it's oil from Iran, cheap, I understand, though I don't know how this works with various embargoes in place. So if... or rather, when, Israel decides to take action against Iran, things will get very interesting for the Euro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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