Britain's Trillion Pound Horror Story

[South Lorne]

The programme's suggestion seems very close to what I suspect the Tories want i.e. to scrap the NHS and introduce a US style health insurance system for their corporate friends.

...or a German style system which is rated better than ours....

[thecrashingisles]

. to scrap the NHS and introduce a US style health insurance system for their corporate friends.

Like in France?

[SMAC67]

Well that was a right wingers wet dream. Once we get rid of all government and replace public sector workers with private sector workers then we will be back in the halcyon days of the industrial revolution.

Only one small problem, we are going to need a time machine.

I notice the "G" word was constantly mentioned without anyone actually explaining coherently or otherwise how once achieves infinite growth on a finite planet.

We were once an island of coal surrounded by a sea full of fish. Both have long gone and aren't coming back. China is in the process of repeating our progress but once they have emptied the coal mines and eaten the last fish, then they will be precisely where we are today.

Besides, if we paid our debt off, what would we use for money?

Apart from keeping the Daily Mail reading, Jeremy Vine listening classes happy, it achieved very little.

Have any of you lot solved the second law of thermodynamics yet? If not, we are running out of time.

p.s. We will never run out of money, that can and will go to infinity......................

[South Lorne]

Immigration forms on entry and exit,

.....seems a good idea....most countries even in the developing world have this ....do we not...?

[Socialhacker.co.uk]

Which sounds good in theory but it ain't!

You have ID cards. Immigration forms on entry and exit,

A police force who actively racially profile stop and search people with section 44 type powers and no recorse. I nearly punched a cop out who slipped his hand into my pockets for an improtu search without bothering to ask me about it. He was only apologetic when he saw my foreign passport.

I once got stopped and searched on Hong Kong Island and was almost arrested because the police officer found some UK stamps in my wallet - he thought it was part of a sheet of LSD tabs. Luckily I was with someone that could speak Cantonese.

I have to add that I did not feel the stop was racially motivated - bear in mind I am the minority when I am in HK as a "Gweilo" (White Ghost) - it was just one of those things and it was resolved pretty quickly.

James

[juvenal]

And then on to a homeless guy who openly states he wouldn't take any job offered, only something that was interesting and motivating.... in a state of such desperation surely most people would take any job a) to feed, clothe and house themselves, and to open up opportunities of better work in the future!

This seems to be seen as a 'right' by so many people. I grew up in an era when you had to earn the right to a decent job, usually by climbing your way through a few crappy jobs. Getting a real taste of the 'crap' provided your motivation to move up the ladder.

Edited November 11, 2010 by juvenal

[Si1]

The programme's suggestion seems very close to what I suspect the Tories want i.e. to scrap the NHS and introduce a US style health insurance system for their corporate friends.

do you have a basis for this suspicion?

[South Lorne]

This seems to be seen as a 'right' by so many people. I grew up in an era when you had to earn the right to a decent job, usually by climbing your way through a few crappy jobs. The 'crap' provided your motivation to move up the ladder.

...he'll soon take anything once his benefits are withdrawn...although the elements who work the black market and claim benefits are one of the core sectors which have to be targetted ....

[Socialhacker.co.uk]

Filipinos are now rare in Hong Kong, Indonesians have replaced them as they are even cheaper.... its pretty nasty when even public servants like cops have home servants because of the incredibly low pay. Bullying exploitation and rape is pretty common but few dare report it because they get deported.

its a whole underclass below the HK underclass,

It is ironic though because many children call their indonesian nannys mummy because their parents can't be bothered to look after them.

May I ask where you get your figures? I have just found this census (edited not for a typo but for stupidity) - here.

I am not saying you are wrong but I am interested in the subject and want to learn more.

Many thanks in advance.

James

Edited November 11, 2010 by Socialhacker.co.uk

[South Lorne]

Bullying exploitation and rape is pretty common but few dare report it because they get deported.

its a whole underclass below the HK underclass,

...the UK seems to be full of white slavery from Eastern Europe with girls forced into prostitution and bought and sold on the market.....what are we doing about it.....

[Socialhacker.co.uk]

...the UK seems to be full of white slavery from Eastern Europe with girls forced into prostitution and bought and sold on the market.....what are we doing about it.....

Playing devil's advocate, and perhaps unfairly, I would ask in response - what are they [Eastern European girls that is] doing about it?

James

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

...the UK seems to be full of white slavery from Eastern Europe with girls forced into prostitution and bought and sold on the market.....what are we doing about it.....

The answer is simple but will be hard to carry out as the Leaders of our Political Parties are liars and cowards. We just have to say goodbye to that Soviet Socialist Corrupt State called the EU.

[SMAC67]

The solution Charlie, and it's only a temporary one is, WAR, and lots of it.

[South Lorne]

Playing devil's advocate, and perhaps unfairly, I would ask in response - what are they [Eastern European girls that is] doing about it?

James

...they are falsely promised jobs in the UK and end up trying to escape or sometimes are released after police raids...unless you have been away only VIs would see this as not being a problem....

O wad some Power the gift tae gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!

It wad frae mony a blunder free us,

An foolish notion:

Robert Burns

[South Lorne]

The answer is simple but will be hard to carry out as the Leaders of our Political Parties are liars and cowards. We just have to say goodbye to that Soviet Socialist Corrupt State called the EU.

...yes ...a step towards freedom....

[corevalue]

...the UK seems to be full of white slavery from Eastern Europe with girls forced into prostitution and bought and sold on the market.....what are we doing about it.....

Not prositution, Operation Pentameter failed miserably

The UK's biggest ever investigation of sex trafficking failed to find a single person who had forced anybody into prostitution in spite of hundreds of raids on sex workers in a six-month campaign by government departments, specialist agencies and every police force in the country.

The failure has been disclosed by a Guardian investigation which also suggests that the scale of and nature of sex trafficking into the UK has been exaggerated by politicians and media.

Current and former ministers have claimed that thousands of women have been imported into the UK and forced to work as sex slaves, but most of these statements were either based on distortions of quoted sources or fabrications without any source at all.

Grauniad

However, raids on agricultural gangmasters exploiting illegal immigrants seem to have more success.

[South Lorne]

Not prositution, Operation Pentameter failed miserably

Grauniad

However, raids on agricultural gangmasters exploiting illegal immigrants seem to have more success.

...so in the successful police raids ....who were they freeing ..?.. and are you in some parallel universe .....?....

Nightmare world of suburban sex slaves

· Victims as young as 15 sold by gangs for up to £8,000

· South American women are trade's latest victims

A new market in young women from South America is changing the face of Britain's sex trade, with traffickers being paid as much as £8,000 a victim, according to a report on a government campaign against trafficking published today.

Police across the country have discovered an increasing number of young women being held in suburban houses, trapped behind locked doors as ordinary life goes on outside.

In a disturbing picture of the violence suffered by the women, some of whom are as young as 15, officers have accounts of them being raped, threatened, stripped of passports and forced into underground brothels on arrival in the UK. Many have been tempted to the UK by promises of a lucrative summer job; others have come after trafficking gangs posing as employment agencies insisted their parents sign consent forms to permit them to travel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/may/08/ukcrime.prisonsandprobation

[South Lorne]

...strange nobody in the west tried the 'experiment' after Friedmans research......

The Hong Kong Experiment

by Milton Friedman

A controlled experiment in the field of economics? The last fifty years of history have provided just that. The free economy: Hong Kong. The mixed economy: the United States. The socialist economies: Great Britain and Israel. Nobel laureate and Hoover fellow Milton Friedman evaluates the results.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/7696

[crash2006]

+1

One of the examples mentioned was Germany. It might be able to provide free health insurance to its poor now, but for how much longer if it continues to bail out the PIIGS?

The programme's suggestion seems very close to what I suspect the Tories want i.e. to scrap the NHS and introduce a US style health insurance system for their corporate friends.

Of course thats what they want, its the private sector thats killing the NHS.

[Saberu]

...strange nobody in the west tried the 'experiment' after Friedmans research......

Amazing article, thanks for sharing. Very inspiring Sadly I would say it's not only because of free markets but also that the Cantonese Chinese are very good at business, have a hard working culture and very passionate about doing their own business. The mainland Chinese people are also similar to a large extent.

Our socialist government is a cultural problem as much as a governmental one. The people in our government have been affected by a general culture of socialism in Britain, which seems to be a rich mans socialism.

[Bloo Loo]

I didnt see much of the show.

I saw the bit where the cafe owner gave £50 tax to the HMG, who paid the worker who ate in the cafe who then paid tax.

A nice illustration of the snake eating its own tail.

People later in the thread talk of bias against the public sector.

Now, DID the program offer any solutions? or was the point made about the snake eating its tail put strongly.

Are people objecting to the solution proposed, or the mathematical truth?

As for the poster suggesting we can have infinite money.... suggest you dont bother saving for a rainy day.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Bloo Loo

[200p]

It was worth watching. Try to see if someone has taped it.

The solution is to cut the size of the state dramatically and to lower taxes massively. I.e. Cut VAT, not increase it. 15% Flat rate tax, scrap CGT. This is to allow private business to grow, rather than fund more diversity liason officers

Osbornes cuts are far too small, the programme states, and the debt will be even bigger in a few years. Quote "trying to empty a bathtub with an eggcup whilst the tap is on".

The large cuts, and the slashing of tax: Neither of which will happen fast enough, too little too late on C4. It is not even discussed on state/BBC television, thats how big the state has got now.

Therefore in conclusion, IMO economic ruin is very likely within 5 years. Either through high inflation to inflate the debt or mass debt default(deflation) when the burden is too great."Hold onto your gold bars" as Rothschild has said in 2008.

[catsick]

In the interests of fairness, I think it is only right to point out that there are many Filipinos in Hong Kong that work as low paid domestic staff. It is the one thing that does not sit well with me. I suppose they choose to be there because they get a better deal than they would at home. That said, it is sad to see them congregating out and about on a Sunday - their only day off.

They have no real opportunity to rise through the ranks, so to speak, unlike the locals in low paid work. Hence I mention them.

James

Its interesting as studies have shown the Filipinos are actually the happiest people in HK, they lead hard lives but they actually have very strong social networks and if you see them congregated in huge groups chatting away on a Sunday its not a sad sight they are all happy and chatting away, its not so long ago most places in the world had one day off, in places like Korea it still exists for many office workers, They are low paid relative to the expats but they are well paid relative to where they come from and in most cases support extended families back home on their earnings which are in most cases 80% repatriated as the employer covers their food and accommodation , in many cases after a stint as a maid they can qualify for local employment as many do and likewise in singapore where there is a definite path to prosperity for those prepared to work hard .

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

People earn, governments tax.

If you overlay this problem with the Laffer curve (I don't know the exact shape of it or the peak but I am pretty sure that it exists) and I think that the problem with future obligations is pretty apparent.  I am begnning to wonder whether they have already exceeded the nation's ability to suuport the future obligations.

The solution is simple, we just default on the boomers state and civil service pensions, and abolish the NHS, and nationalise all the PFI buildings.

Actually the programme was quite strange, it almost seemed like a right wing economic propaganda film.  Was it part of educating the masses not to riot and understand that the banks create wealth?

I had to laugh at the stupid MPs who didn't know the difference between the nation debt and the deficit, what are they doing in Parliament?   Finally they failed to address the root cause, ie the bankers, let's face it, money isn't made it's issued and goods and services are what create wealth.

[Crashman Begins]

Can be replayed on 4 On demand.

Anyone got a downloadable link ?

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-trillion-pound-horror-story/4od