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  1. A guy in another thread got a HND in electronics and is after some work experience is heading to Germany to earn 80k/ year, so I think that answers the question! Other well paying jobs, oil sector. When you heading to Shenzhen? I hope I didn't put you off with my description of it, there are still a lot of nice girls there. Although now that I'm living in Shanghai I've realized people here are friendlier and less racist than in Shenzhen, it's more of an international city and you can even make male Chinese friends here. But if you need to rent privately it will be more expensive than Shenzhen and you may be able to get a higher paying job in Shenzhen. If you don't like teaching young kids it may not be a good idea to go to Shenzhen as a majority of jobs there are teaching kids, something I hate with a passion which is why I prefer high school. If you have a degree I would consider teaching in Taiwan because living costs are low but they pay over 2,000 / month for teachers. The caveat being I'm sure you would be expected to work hard for the higher pay. If you treat teaching as your sole source of income for the foreseeable future you should just go to Taiwan or Korea because it's better to earn more unless you have special reasons to need the free time. I'm sure FaFa can give you a lot of advice regarding Taiwan living.
  2. Don't knock TEFL! I teach in China at a high school and am now in a job where I only have to teach 13 hours/ week (including an hour of badminton teaching) and despite the low hours I can get 1,200 pounds per month plus 300 per month in summer and winter holidays. Free accommodation (it's nice too) and bills. That was after 2-3 years experience and having to go through some bad schools to find this one. If you wanted you could get a part-time job on top of that and earn 2,000/ month. Or even better go teach in Korea or Taiwan if you are prepared to work longer hours / be a more professional teacher. My pay isn't amazing but I get low hours and I have mostly good students. It's the perfect part-time job for full-time pay. And because of the low living cost I can live well for just 300/ month spent. I only have to do 4-5 lesson plans for the whole week so only takes me a couple of hours a week extra. Definitely not a good route to go down if you want a serious career which can lead to high paying positions. But great if you think you have potential to use your free time productively and eventually run your own business. If you don't mind working longer hours it's easy to get jobs paying 1.5-1.8k/ month in Shenzhen, but if you want to work that hard may as well get a proper career. I'd rather be here than be in Australia on twice the income, any full time job which involves slogging it out 40 hours/ week plus travel time/ expenses is not going to give you enough free time to have a life and do things on the side. Finding a job in China is a bite of a minefield because the well advertised jobs are usually the poorly paid ones so you need to get yourself some agents in China to help with the search. Just don't expect to teach TEFL for 10 years then come back to the UK expecting the experience to be worth much, it's only worth something for TEFL jobs.
  3. That's not the right solution. The solution is people stop paying through the nose for living expenses like rent and tax so they can afford to live on less money, then an appropriate citizens income to help redistribute the benefits of technology and automation to the masses. For example having higher unemployment would be fine if the JSA was actually enough to live on, but with current living expenses it just isn't enough which is why so many lower class people have children for extra benefits.
  4. You bet. Look how it mentions the best scenario as 'job for a woman' as if sexism against men should be encouraged.
  5. The main issue is they won't be able to find good enough teachers to teach this subject, presuming it's just a clever name for IT. And they should be teaching online marketing as that's where the money is, but it's still a dark art to most people so would be impossible to find any teachers. Anyone whose good at it won't teach others anyway. They could teach web programming languages and then business and marketing, the student will then realize the implications and go study the rest himself. Most young people have nothing to live for, it's prohibitively expensive to do any kind of business requiring a physical location though that's not yet the case in China. And most don't have the intelligence or determination to make a living online. The sad fact is, we don't have enough office jobs to give graduates these days. And in the past you didn't even need a degree to do most office jobs yet now even the most mundane office jobs require a degree, bit of an insult to the graduate there. On the other side of the coin, low skilled jobs are much more competitive due to outsourcing, immigration and technology replacing jobs. I think we can expect Spanish levels of youth unemployment in 20 years time. We are no different than Spain, just another high cost economy which can't compete with the East.
  6. Indeed, I also like the mindset of being able to earn an income from work you enjoy self-employed. Which is my goal doing something online but it's good to have a fallback plan. I would actually be more comfortable working for myself and earning a living through something that wasn't just an investment. I hate the idea that with investing (when it's not a business) you just put the money in and there's nothing you can really do to get more than whatever percentage return the investment gives. Makes me think that anyone who doesn't have the means to eventually run their own business is simply a slave. Hence my backup plan would probably be to open a small shop, there's a lot more pride and potential with that than some fixed investment vehicle. The conclusion of this thread from my point of view seems to be that unless you are able to earn a monthly income from your own business then you won't be in a stable position. When it comes to working full-time for a living or living off investments neither of these are as stable or have the growth potential of a business. Running your own business will put you in control and you have the potential to grow it, whereas money or a fixed asset like a house, or a fixed return investment don't really have any of these. Hell I would rather earn less money from a business that had potential to grow than more money from an investment which would always be the same. I notice a lot of old people tend to spend huge amounts of money after retirement, I put it down to the fact that without something to do like a kind of work which they can get pride out of then they try to make up for it by taking holidays and spending money as a way of escapism. I don't want to be one of those people who works 30-40 years in a full time job only to retire and not feel any satisfaction. A lot of people are looking for satisfaction in their lives but looking in the wrong places. In my opinion if you are able to live frugally it means you are more satisfied/ happier with your life than spendaholics who seem to be filling a gap in their fulfillment which should be replaced with something more suitable.
  7. This is what's wrong with our society, obsession with the 'status' that comes with having an office job. I'd hate to have one, there's a lot of jobs out there which pay well that don't also involve sitting in an office all day doing mundane office type tasks. Sadly for me the joint earning solution won't be doable until my girlfriend graduates from university, I was originally considering my backup plan for both of us to join the army in Aus as it's well paid but I realised there's probably a 5 year security background check required which precludes either of us from joining. So the only option is to stay in China and if she has a good enough job we'd probably be able to save 2,000/ month. I think saving 2k/ month is doable if you both have reasonably good jobs but that is clearly not an option for most people. Having a decent amount by age 35 is probably wishful thinking but if you and a partner can both have good jobs by the time you reach 30 then save hard for 10 years it's possible to come out with almost 250k by age 40, or 125k by age 35. I imagine worse case scenario by the time I reach age 30 I'll be able to earn 2,000 (net) and she will be able to earn 1,000 then save 2/3 of that. This is clearly an important point to be made though, if you are lucky enough to have a partner with skills/ potential then you can work together and save twice as much money while living cheap. I imagine the real problem lies in considering that 10 years of time to be a waste or not, my personal opinion is that if you can be happy while living cheap then it's not a waste. A UK equivalent would probably be two people both earning 20k or one earning 25k and the other on 15k and then managing to save 2000/ month between you. But it's much harder to do this in Britain so I can see why so many people replied with incredulity to my post, even 40k probably won't be enough. But I know for a fact it's doable in China or Australia. China because of the low cost of living and Australia because it has so much higher salaries that if you are smart with spending you could probably also save 2k. If you and your partner both started work age 25 and saved 1k/ month for 10 years that means you can buy a 125k house by age 35 which is a very doable target for most people. Sadly because things rarely work out so perfect you always have setbacks which mean it might not be possible for both partners to start earning till you are both closer to 30. But that is a good example that even works with low earners.
  8. I agree with you there, which is why I don't want to buy any property in China and any business I invest in will not be reliant on living here. Taiwan is probably a safe place to buy though. Even in war times I think some people will still be able to get visas and work in China depending on the country of the passport you are traveling in, Australians might for example still be ok due to their resource selling to China. But it might not be a good idea to travel to China on a US or British passport in 10-20 years depending how bad relations get. But it would take a pretty significant 'event' to cause a war between China and the US because as it stands right now they have a symbiotic relationship business wise until it gets to the point where Chinese workers can all just be replaced with machines in Western factories. Some Chinese factories have already started replacing workers with machines.
  9. You can still buy a reasonable sized apartment for 30k in places like China, Taiwan etc if you don't want to live in a big city. But after reading through the thread I have to agree on one thing, investing 200-300k for a 10% return is throwing your money away because a good business idea could get a much bigger return. And a lot of low investment businesses only require a 30k investment so you could in theory have 5-6 such businesses running in parallel each all capable of giving a living wage. It really puts things into perspective, if you spend the majority of your savings and earnings on either buying a house or for a 10% yield then it seems like a waste. I think another issue is people will not feel financially secure if their earnings are subject to a percentage return which over time has more chance to fall than rise. I think a good solution would be to invest half your savings in a business and half as investments so you have a steady income from the investments but a potentially higher income from the business but with investments to keep you going if the business goes through bad times. The main benefit of having capital behind you is you can earn your investments/ setup your business in a country with a lower cost of living and in that scenario even 200-300k is more than enough. But I agree it's not enough in Britain. One of the reasons this topic interests me so much is I see a lot of colleagues and friends in their late 20's/ going on 30 who spend most of their income every month on things like renting a luxury apartment and going out to bars. These are the same people that despite all their effort usually don't find a long term girlfriend or wife until they reach mid 30's. I see a lot of people wasting their 20's when it's probably the most important time in your life to get your sh!t together. The average HPC poster probably does way better than the average young person financially, I dread to think how bad most mid 20's men are preparing for their future. The people I see wasting money here are earning enough that they could easily save at least 1000 pounds/ month but they choose to spend most of their income instead. A guy on 1500 pounds/ month (after tax) here might spend 700/ month on a luxury apartment then 100 pounds every weekend on partying in bars. Then spend the rest on food, going out to restaurants etc. A lot of young peoples attitude is 'I worked hard to earn my salary this month so I deserve to spend it'. I know how it feels because I was like that for my first couple of years of full-time employment. I learn to get satisfaction out of smaller things these days, like a takeaway pizza or just watching movies indoors with the girlfriend, going out to a mid-range restaurant etc. Hell I can live pretty comfortably on 300 pounds/ month here in China as I don't need to pay rent or bills, yet colleagues seem to spend 3-4x as much as me because 'they are worth it'.
  10. Or you just employ a Chinese person for 200 pounds/ month, a lot of local shops I see can afford to employ at least two people working in the shop at any one time with maybe four in total.
  11. China, it's already happened/ happening. The job evaporation to China is an ongoing process which increases year on year. There are just some exceptions like industries which are so high-tech they need to be based in the UK to make sure they get the talent. But there will be very few jobs at this level. I don't think getting a good job is a problem for well skilled individuals. It's just something that affects almost everyone else.
  12. So just manage your own savings and investments, or if you are really smart start your own business
  13. I did consider inflation which is why I said only withdraw 5% and leave 5% to accumulate. As I imagine the 'real' rate of inflation is probably closer to 5% than the rubbish stats the government shows us. Oil stocks with the right company should be able to yield 10% between stock price rises and dividends. Another option is just to pick a company with a high paying dividend that also looks to be rising in price. 300k at 35 would be optimistic in the UK. But I have an Australian passport and if I went to Australia with a partner/wife and we both worked/ saved hard for 5-10 years in good jobs (over $60k/ year each) then it would be possible. I would only ever consider it a backup option for my own circumstances, as I have something better as my primary goal. But for a lot of people such a scenario would be a good primary objective. You say > 10% is difficult. Well in the real world of business over 100% growth in income per year is possible. But even a 10% return on investment is better than buying a house or sitting on 300k in cash. It makes me realize most people just don't have the skills to do business/ invest smartly. If you were smart you would probably be able to turn 10k into 100k. But buying a house instead of investing in a high return investment with a significant amount of money is a pretty dumb decision in my mind, it seems like the kind of decision taken by people who assume it's natural to work 40 hours/ week until they are 50-60 without much time out. Makes me realize how low the intelligence of the average person is. Hell in countries like China you don't even need a huge amount of money to invest in a brick and mortar/ no knowledge business. With 10-30k you could setup/ run a franchised convenience store and make a modest living off that for the rest of your live if it's in the right place. Yet some Westerners invest 200-300k in businesses over here like pubs and restaurants and still fail.
  14. As per the topic. I know there are a lot of investments where you can make at least 10% ROI. I would normally assume stocks and shares are very dangerous in our volatile world economy, but surely oil stocks would be very safe and profitable? Personally I would rather. invest in more 'risky' things like land/ resources in China if I had a lot of money like 300k. But I'm interested to know how many options are out there that could earn at least 10% per year return. It's an interesting milestone because you could make a pretty good living off the interest alone with an investment like 300k. But your 300k capital would be losing value every year if you took all the appreciation/ interest out of it, due to inflation. However if you only used 5% for your living costs which is still comfortable in most countries of the world that don't have the Western high cost of living then you could keep the other 5% invested to offset inflation. A lot of people complain about how hard life is, but 300k is not a lot of money yet if invested wisely you would never have to work again. Anyone with 300k in capital who would rather buy a house than take an early retirement is crazy or just materialistic to need to earn even more, unless they had a specific reason to buy a house like raising children. I wouldn't have children unless I was rich. It seems to me that if you can find a partner in your 20's and save money together, it would be possible to jointly have 300k by age 35 and essentially retire from the rat race. I see some members on here mention they have saved with a partner and almost paid off the mortgage mid 30's etc. Yet many more people don't find a partner till their 30's and I get the feeling men tend to save less and spend more to keep their ego up while they are still in the dating phase meaning many reach their 30's without any savings and end up just starting their mortgage or house deposit savings with 5,000 pounds or so. My generation have it really difficult. I know for me personally I am going to aim to have 200-300k by age 35 if me and my partner are able to work for a few years by then but for many people of my generation even being married by 35, or saving a significant amount by then will seem like a dream. I know there are a couple of people on this forum living off their investments, but why isn't it much more common? Why spend 300k on a house when the same amount of money could buy your freedom from having to work full-time? I think the answer to this question is that most people actually wouldn't be satisfied without their full-time job, which is quite a sad indictment of our society considering most people's jobs are very monotonous. People end up becoming boring live-to-workers because they have so little free time that they don't even bother finding enough interesting hobbies to keep them satisfied. We are being bred as a society who get their identity from their job, not their personal life. People think that your job title and being a home owner are the two most important things in the world. I despise this culture.
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