Are The Tories Going To Snatch Defeat Out Of The Jaws Of Victory?

f00 · October 8, 2009

The Tories have such drastic measures planned if they win the next election that they cant help some of it seeing the light of day now.

What they have disclosed so far is just the tip of the iceberg.

the iceberg shall hence forth be named "reality"

right_freds_dead · October 8, 2009

i think they are talking sense. going off whats being said today at the conference.

Fudge · October 8, 2009

the iceberg shall hence forth be named "reality"

Who's reality though?

A Conservatives reality that thinks that the poor and sick should pay for a crises created by the bankers and tax cuts for the rich.

lets get it right · October 8, 2009

Who's reality though?

A Conservatives reality that thinks that the poor and sick should pay for a crises created by the bankers and tax cuts for the rich.

The proposed change to inheritance tax should be abandoned.

Apart from that, sticking with the 50% tax rate, removing the ability to claim tax credits for people earning over 50k, the removal of the money to start child trust funds from higher earners .... yes, one can easily see how the poor and sick are being targeted.

Having just watched Cameron's conference speech, he seems good to me.

Rain'ard · October 8, 2009

i think they are talking sense. going off whats being said today at the conference.

Fred :angry:

thecrashingisles · October 8, 2009

I've got news for you, Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition have a duty to the people of this country and they were paid lavishly to uphold it.

Paid lavishly? Only the Leader of the Opposition, the Opposition Chief Whip and Opposition Deputy Chief Whip are paid for being the 'Opposition'. Everyone else gets an MPs salary as normal.

thedebtisreal · October 8, 2009

Who's reality though?

A Conservatives reality that thinks that the poor and sick should pay for a crises created by the bankers and tax cuts for the rich.

Can i remind you which party it was that bankrupted the nation bailing out the banks?

Can I also remind you with party after 12 years in power has created a bigger discrepancy between rich and poor?

I'm not Camerons biggest fan myself, but I have to agree with him when he tells Labour "don't you dare lecture us about poverty. You have failed"

He may have the answers he may not. But the current lot have failed. Time to try something new.

dances with sheeple · October 8, 2009

Did you see George Osborne's face at the start of his speech? There's something not quite right about the man. The eyes, it's in the eyes.

Labour or Tory - Britain is finished.

Freezing public sector pay will mean staff nurses on 20K will get no pay increase for their labour, and yet for City Bankers, who are largely responsible for this mess, it will be business (and bonuses) as usual. Tories looking after the rich. No change there then.

Reading the headline in the Metro or some paper lying about on the bus, it said "Power rests with swing voters" until of course they vote for someone and then power rests with them. We are conditioned from early childhood to give up our power to someone else. Sheeple can take the power back by refusing to take the bankers loans, and in the case of this illegal ponzi scheme, just default on the loans that are least important to you, let the "elites" soak up the pain.

lets get it right · October 8, 2009

Freezing public sector pay will mean staff nurses on 20K will get no pay increase for their labour, and yet for City Bankers, who are largely responsible for this mess, it will be business (and bonuses) as usual. Tories looking after the rich. No change there then.

It's interesting looking at how people filter events through their prejudices and come up with their own view of reality.

As far as I know, the government pays nurses - on our behalf.

They do not, Tory or Labour, pay city bankers their bonuses.

Apart, of course, from the banks that, due to Labour's serial incompetence in supervising the financial system, and their determination to continue a debt fuelled boom at any cost, they have had to nationalise.

Now, we've heard a lot of wind and spin on this subject from Labour - but, as usual, no substance.

George Osborne made it clear the other day that, unless banks put their (bonus) houses in order, the bonuses will be repatriated to the revenue by way of tax.

How very TORY of him! Not.

Tories looking after the rich by taking tax credits away from people earning over 50k. B'stards eh! And not letting the better off have their £250 for their child trust fund! They are really giving the middle classes a treat eh?

Guillotine · October 8, 2009

I've got a quote for you:

Oh okay let;s nto shilly shally, swivel on this one.....

And the document discloses that his military planning allows for some of the WMD to be ready within 45 minutes of an order to use them.

Blaggards.

cockrobin · October 8, 2009

Did you see George Osborne's face at the start of his speech? There's something not quite right about the man. The eyes, it's in the eyes.

Labour or Tory - Britain is finished.

Freezing public sector pay will mean staff nurses on 20K will get no pay increase for their labour, and yet for City Bankers, who are largely responsible for this mess, it will be business (and bonuses) as usual. Tories looking after the rich. No change there then.

Are there any nurses on less than 20k?

Tories looked after me during the 80's and 90's and I'm not rich!!!! The Labour party are supposed to be the the ones that look after the working class, so why do my working class parents hate them so much for ruining their lives during the 70's??

Its the Labour party that has screwed me over since 1997, and I will never ever vote for them, and I will spread the word to my future children that it is Labour that are evil not the Tories!!!

Game_Over · October 8, 2009

Yes, they will lose it. It can be done, ask Kinnock.

As they come under real scrutiny, Camermoron's Party machine will fail to hold back the Right Wing.

The Bullingdon Club factor alienates a huge swathe of voters.

While Britain can take and act on bad news, they are not going to love the messenger. Camermoron's message is just one dimensional.

Even if good times were in prospect, people do not believe that the Tories would divvy up the rewards fairly.

Camermoron had better get used to disappointment. At least, there are plenty of failed Tory leaders to commiserate with him.

Ha, ha, ha...........................

You are really not going to enjoy the next 10 years.

:huh:

Dorkins · October 8, 2009

Earlier in the year the Tories were going to turn us into "a nation of savers".

Today's message is that they can sort out the whole mess in just 2 years of pain. They say interest rates have to be low. That's sterling down so how can they sort things out if they are going to abandon any overseas investment? They are starting to sound just like Labour with interest rates kept too low for too long to fuel more debt.

It could all be sorted out with 2 years of pain if they also put interest rates back up, but sadly I don't think they get it.

non frog · October 8, 2009

It's interesting looking at how people filter events through their prejudices and come up with their own view of reality.

the banks that, due to Labour's serial incompetence in supervising the financial system, and their determination to continue a debt fuelled boom at any cost, they have had to nationalise.
....

Yes I agree with you. Very interesting how people's prejudice alters reality

Cogs · October 8, 2009

Paid lavishly? Only the Leader of the Opposition, the Opposition Chief Whip and Opposition Deputy Chief Whip are paid for being the 'Opposition'. Everyone else gets an MPs salary as normal.

Exactly, lavishly overpaid with a colossal salary and most of them treated it as a part time job.

Although according to you they didn't have a job to do at all apparently. Perhaps they should just get rid of the opposition benches and put a squash court in or something, they can use the Stranger's Gallery like everyone else if they are just spectators.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Cogs

Three Pint Princess 2 · October 9, 2009

View PostBring forth the guillotine, on 07 October 2009 - 11:00 PM, said:

I've got loads for you, all from the man culpable of getting us into the shite....

" We will not let house prices get out of control"

"There will be no return to boom and bust"

" I want us to do even more to encourage the risk takers"

Irrespective of what was said, it was the actions taken (and inaction) of the labour government that matter. These quotes highlight the failure in thinking.

Meet The Spy

I've got a quote for you:

“Today, I can confirm for the first time that a Conservative government will adopt these spending totals,” the Shadow Chancellor said. “Total government spending will rise by 2 per cent a year in real terms, from £616 billion next year to £674 billion in the year 2010/11. “Like Labour, we will review the final year’s total in a spending review in 2009,” Mr Osborne wrote in a newspaper article.

He added that the effect of the commitment “is that under a Conservative government, there will be real increases in spending on public services, year after year”. “The charge from our opponents that we will cut services becomes transparently false,” he said.

Meet The Spy http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nnuYi-nzE90

September 3, 2007
When David Cameron and I first said this two years ago, Mr Brown trotted out the tired old attack that we would cut services. The irony is that he has now been forced to adopt our approach to spending. For in this year’s Budget he committed the Government to sharing the proceeds of growth over the next three years. The spending totals for the years 2008-09 to 2010-11 show public spending growing by 2 per cent in real terms, significantly below the 2.75 per cent trend growth rate of the economy.

As Mr Cameron quickly pointed out to Mr Brown when he replied to the Budget: “He has spent all year attacking our policy and making ludicrous figures for cuts in public spending, but now he is introducing it.”

Today I can confirm for the first time that a Conservative Government will adopt these spending totals. Total government spending will rise by 2 per cent a year in real terms, from £615 billion next year to £674 billion in the year 2010-11. Like Labour, we will review the final year’s total in a spending review in 2009.

The result of adopting these spending totals is that under a Conservative Government there will be real increases in spending on public services, year after year. The charge from our opponents that we will cut services becomes transparently false. At the same time the share of national income taken by the State will start to fall, as the economy grows faster than the government does. Pursuing this approach over an economic cycle creates the headroom for sustainably lower taxes.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Three Pint Princess 2

October 9, 2009

Yes I agree with you. Very interesting how people's prejudice alters reality

This begs the question " What IS reality?"

Everyone has a personal version of reality, filtered thru' their own belief systems and schema. The rational ones keep theirs up-to-date with the rest of the world, by cross checking with it, on a regular basis, and allowing their 'worldly' experiences to inform them.

Sadly, a proportion go the other route and eventually end up with some sort of mental/emotional problem.

October 9, 2009

Who's reality though?

A Conservatives reality that thinks that the poor and sick should pay for a crises created by the bankers and tax cuts for the rich.

How can YOU say what a Conservative's reality is? Your view of them is distorted by your OWN view of reality.

If you cite examples then you run the real risk of cherry-picking the worst-case scenarios.

If we look at Nu Lab, it is pretty hard to cite anything else, cherry picked or otherwise.

October 9, 2009

Yes, George Osborne absolutely exudes financial competence compared to Vince Cable. Go on and vote for the duck house and moat party if you think it'll help things.

Edit: I've just just read George Osborne's wikipedia entry. If anyone thinks he's the one to deal with a financial crisis, they want their heads examined. Kenneth Clarke may be an unprincipled git, but he has at least got an iota of financial nous. If he were shadow chancellor, I might just consider voting for them.

Yes, I like Ken C. he is very reassuring and gives off an air of nous and competance. I am not keen on his being a Europhile tho'. I think that the EU has already screwed us over enough.

Edited October 9, 2009 by AuntJess

non frog · October 9, 2009

This begs the question " What IS reality?"

Everyone has a personal version of reality, filtered thru' their own belief systems and schema. The rational ones keep theirs up-to-date with the rest of the world, by cross checking with it, on a regular basis, and allowing their 'worldly' experiences to inform them.

Sadly, a proportion go the other route and eventually end up with some sort of mental/emotional problem.

I completely agree.

You might end up like this nutter if you don't keep your feet on the ground.

Cogs · October 9, 2009

[Full context of quote]

Yes point taken but we were talking about errors in thinking, the suggestion being the Tories weren't making exactly the same ones. "Sharing the proceeds of growth" contains the same errors of thinking as Gordon's pronouncements and as were embodied in the spending plans the Tories wholeheartedly agreed with. The bit about the state growing less quickly than growth was Labour party policy as well, not that they articulated that very well but it is there in prior budgets. The stated plan was that spending would peak (rather than continue ever upwards). Who knows if they'd have stuck to it or not, probably not, but the argument was the same.

Bottom line is they didn't say "we need to begin a programme of vicious cuts immediately to fix the roof while the sun is shining" whatever they've claimed about their foresight in recent days.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Cogs

johnny5thumbs · October 9, 2009

Having just watched Cameron's conference speech, he seems good to me.

That's the thing about spin doctors - Cameron's an ex-PR man - he wouldn't be doing his job properly if he didn't SOUND plausible. He still looks like a tw@t, though.

And anyone who got suckered into voting for Thatcher in '79 has to bear that particular cross for life. "Won't Get Fooled Again", I think the song goes.

Anyway, I agree with Fudge on virtually all of this.

Edited October 9, 2009 by johnny5thumbs

johnny5thumbs · October 9, 2009

I completely agree.

You might end up like this nutter if you don't keep your feet on the ground.

Be gentle on Nige. he's been overworking, and he's splitting his job in two from now on.

Fudge · October 9, 2009

The Lunatics Have Taken Over The Asylum

i see a clinic full of cynics

who want to twist the people's wrist

they're watching every move we make

we're all included on the list