Scottish Independence By 2011 Could Be A Possibility

[quenkish]

Agreed but not on the same scale, take the entire Central region through Clackmanshire, Fallkirk, Lanarkshire, Fife, the Lothians, the Bulk of Glasgow... town after town of run down lives where the original heavy industies have long since gone. Scotland is still suffering the long hang over of the post industrial period and has yet to re-invent itself, there are huge population where nearly two generation have never worked. Mass social change is required before Scotland can stand on its own two feet

There are three productive Cities in Scotland, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness the rest just consume money.

If you look at England most places stand on their own two feet except East Lancashire, West Yorkshire and Humberside, parts of the Midlands and parts of the North East (areas with the same post industrial issues that Scotland has)

How is Inverness productive?

With the UK you'll find the South East subsidising the rest of the country.

Even if there is independance you'll find that Scottish MP's will move south for English seats and they will still rule England and Wales.

[ccc]

Agreed but not on the same scale, take the entire Central region through Clackmanshire, Fallkirk, Lanarkshire, Fife, the Lothians, the Bulk of Glasgow... town after town of run down lives where the original heavy industies have long since gone. Scotland is still suffering the long hang over of the post industrial period and has yet to re-invent itself, there are huge population where nearly two generation have never worked. Mass social change is required before Scotland can stand on its own two feet

There are three productive Cities in Scotland, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness the rest just consume money.

If you look at England most places stand on their own two feet except East Lancashire, West Yorkshire and Humberside, parts of the Midlands and parts of the North East (areas with the same post industrial issues that Scotland has)

Totally agree. As part of a large country - a fairly large minority of work shy scrounging bludgers can be supported. As part of a smaller nation ? I can't see it working.

The number of people employed in the public sector or on benefits in Scotland is huge. We are generally a lazy race - simple as that. I think, as a Jock, I am quite entitled to make that point.

I can just admit to these shortcomings in our society. Many cannot. They see Scotland as some sort of Switzerland or Norway in the making. These people clearly have never been to Switzerland or Norway. Whilst they may have their share of issues and wasters - it is nothing like in Scotland.

[Goat]

Even if there is independance you'll find that Scottish MP's will move south for English seats and they will still rule England and Wales.

Can't see many English wanting to vote for a Scotsman post separation - especially after Gordon "Calamity" Brown.

[Wario]

Mass social change is required before Scotland can stand on its own two feet

There are three productive Cities in Scotland, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness the rest just consume money.

So what is to be done? The Second Clearances?

I wonder where a small retarded country in the same league as say, Estonia would disgorge its superabundance of indelibly Anglophone, half-educated, psychotically violent drunken paupers? Who the f uck would have them? The Empire has evaporated, so it's no go the Colonies.

Somewhere they could walk, or get the bus to, perhaps?

Some twatty little country that needs suitably crazed and desperate cannonfodder for its own berserk global aspirations?

The reason they're all jammed into the central rift valley is they're hardly allowed to set foot on the bulk of the country, never mind own it or work it. Of course they're broke. It's Gaza, with sleet and Bucky.

[quenkish]

Can't see many English wanting to vote for a Scotsman post separation - especially after Gordon "Calamity" Brown.

Oh they will, especially if it's in a safe Labour seat, the English will forget about the mess left by Labour.

[quenkish]

It depends how the figures are counted. If you are quoting what Ken spouts then you are wide of the mark.

If you included the cost of London infrastructure ( all roads lead to London, all railways, major international airports etc etc - have you ever tried going around the country without going through London?) Tube, Crossrail etc etc

Olympics

Civil service

BBC

London 'weighting' (otherwise known as higher wages for the same job)

The City having bled and spat out the industry of the rest of the country and now having to search for its dinner globally.

Westminster

need I go on?

And wasn't the City accused of doing very little toward the greater good - most of financial services acting as an effective tax on the rest of the economy?

Very easy to construct a counter argument on that one.

Britain has relied too much on the City under Labour, when I mention this to my Labour friends they start name calling.

Indeed you have put across a good argument, but it still remains that the South East of England still produces most wealth and it subsidises the rest of the UK in one way or another.

[quenkish]

So what is to be done? The Second Clearances?

I wonder where a small retarded country in the same league as say, Estonia would disgorge its superabundance of indelibly Anglophone, half-educated, psychotically violent drunken paupers? Who the f uck would have them? The Empire has evaporated, so it's no go the Colonies.

Somewhere they could walk, or get the bus to, perhaps?

Some twatty little country that needs suitably crazed and desperate cannonfodder for its own berserk global aspirations?

The reason they're all jammed into the central rift valley is they're hardly allowed to set foot on the bulk of the country, never mind own it or work it. Of course they're broke. It's Gaza, with sleet and Bucky.

Scotland is more divided then most people realise, what unites them is the hatred of the English:

Edinburgh hates Glasgow

The Highlands and Islands do not like the Southerners

The Orkney’s and Shetland do not see themselves as Scottish and may want their own independence.

Plus the religious divide is as bad as Northern Ireland.

[Laura]

I read somewhere that the Scots would go bust simply re-assuming the debt we took on after the Darian misadventure - never mind adding the cost of HBOS and RBS.

Last time I posted this link it extended the 'Scotland to be scrapped' thread by another 30+ pages; much of it unpleasant & most of it I would suggest due to ignorance & denial.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article11794.html

SNP Would Bankrupt an Independent Scotland, But Benefit England

& once again I say thank you to the rest of the UK for putting up with us Scots for a few hundred thankless years.

[quenkish]

Last time I posted this link it extended the 'Scotland to be scrapped' thread by another 30+ pages; much of it unpleasant & most of it I would suggest due to ignorance & denial.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article11794.html

& once again I say thank you to the rest of the UK for putting up with us Scots for a few hundred thankless years.

I agree:

In conclusion, the rest of the UK has nothing to fear from an independent Scotland, in fact the benefits out way the costs as business and UK citizens would still be able to continue virtually as is under the European Union banner. So perhaps it will be the English who will be gaining their freedom.

[Nationalist]

I'm pretty certain the big Scotish finance houses such as Socttish Life would relocate to London pretty sharpish so as to stay under the British umbrella.

There would be massive hardship in Scotland; they'd be bust unless they tightened their belts massively. Then they'd all try and get jobs south of the border and it would be interesting to see if the English said sod off.

I expect the Scots would try to wriggle out of their share of the national debt - per capita it would be £70bn approx - so add three billion interest payments to an independent Scotland's budget before you start, assuming they somehow manage to keep a AAA credit rating.

[bingobob777]

The electoral seats have been re-drawn (some would say gerry mandered). In terms of the popular vote, what you say is incorrect.

These are the total votes cast, clearly excluding the Scottish vote Labour would still have won in 1997 and 2001, 2005 isn't so clear although I've found the figures before and I'm 95% Labour still had more votes.

1997

Labour 13,518,167

Tory 9,600,943

2001

Labour 10.724.953

Tory 8,357,615

2005

Labour 9,562,122

Tory 8,772,598

[Gone baby gone]

In conclusion, the rest of the UK has nothing to fear from an independent Scotland, in fact the benefits out way the costs as business and UK citizens would still be able to continue virtually as is under the European Union banner. So perhaps it will be the English who will be gaining their freedom.

Someone who uses 'out way' rather that 'outweigh' is clearly a person with great knowledge.

[bingobob777]

Scotland is more divided then most people realise, what unites them is the hatred of the English:

Edinburgh hates Glasgow

The Highlands and Islands do not like the Southerners

The Orkney’s and Shetland do not see themselves as Scottish and may want their own independence.

Plus the religious divide is as bad as Northern Ireland.

Jealousy is a terrible thing.

It's not.

[AThirdWay]

Many seem to dismiss NS oil. That source of income is undeniably in decline, and will continue to be. But, and it's a big but, the majority of us believe that oil prices can only go one way in the long term, and that is up. So, declining volume sure, but an increase in price may not mean a decline in income.

I've posted before, but I don't mind repeating that we are also perfectly placed to make use of alternative energy sources such as wind, hydro, tide and geo-thermal. Could turn into a mini-boom for us if handled correctly....

As to financial institutions drifting South, that may happen. If we manage to produce an attractive business regulation/tax regime however, we may even poach some of that business up North. No chance of that while we're run by a London-centric parliament!

That leaves us with the high level of benefit dependants up her. Undeniable that we have high levels in some areas, but here's the rub. We simply could not provide benefits at the current levels. If your on benefits in Scotland, your going to take a 30% reduction in income, full stop. Can you imagine the stampede South of the border before the deadline for registration?

As to the current level of national debt, we're not going to pay it. What are you going to do, invade?

The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to support Scottish independence! As posted previously -

Good bye, good riddance and thanks for all the fish!

[Goat]

As to the current level of national debt, we're not going to pay it. What are you going to do, invade?

We could just seal the border, you'd be bankrupt within a week. What are you going to do, invade?

Edited September 22, 2009 by Young Goat

[Laura]

Many seem to dismiss NS oil.

Oh for heaven's sake! Read the link I posted!

& nearly all of us Scots dismiss the disproportionate amount spent on us by the rest of the UK.

AND, most Scots still think it's the least they deserve according to certain unbelievably racist tabloids.

It's time to grow up! - I can't wait to cast my vote to get rid of those 'awful' English; & I'll stay 1800 miles away & watch the show.

No doubt everyone on the planet will be to blame except ykw.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Laura

[CynicalActuary]

The debt belongs to one James Gordon Brown who is - I do believe - Scottish, and it is therefore obvious he should take it back home to share with his compatriots. After all, debt is wealth and it would be incredibly selfish of we English to keep such a windfall to ourselves; it should go where it rightfully belongs. Perhaps they could display it in Edinburgh Castle with the Stone of Scone (named from their tendancy to have their cake and eat it) as a further proud monument to their bravery in wrestling freedom back from the sassenach oppressors.

[Matt Henson]

Oil is a very unpredictable revenue stream and has a lot to do with politics, OPEC has a strangle hold on pricing at the moment but pricing also has a lot to do with refining capacity as well as how much comes out of the ground. 10 years ago oil fell to record lows, it cost $4 more to get it out of the ground than you sell it for. Would I want to build an ecomony on a revenue source that swings that violently?

Renewables are rightly a good move for Scotland but you don't have many customers outside the home market because it needs cables to move the power about which makes you very dependant on England.

On the plus side Scotland is a very enterprising and inventive country with great universities but the god awful self interest of Scottish Enterprise means none of those skills ever get on the global stage unless the inventors leave to other shores.

I wish Scotland well in their quest for independance but having experienced "Trainspotting Land" first hand (paid labourers in person in the Pennywell arms on Pennywell road so their wives didn't seee the money and they could drink it all away) I have my doubts.

[newbonic]

Scotland is more divided then most people realise, what unites them is the hatred of the English:

Edinburgh hates Glasgow

The Highlands and Islands do not like the Southerners

The Orkney’s and Shetland do not see themselves as Scottish and may want their own independence.

Plus the religious divide is as bad as Northern Ireland.

Looks like the Simpsons were on the nail with their Groundskeeper Willie 'Scots Hate Everybody' sketch! Groundskeeper Willie on Scots.

[stormymonday_2011]

Im a 100% sure this is what AS has been waiting for. DC would not stand in his way and the scottish population will not tolerate a torry goverment again. This would be a dream come true for AS as he propably would not have to do much coaxing to get the vote! the torries being in power would be all the motivation needed.

I would vote for independance. I think it's best that the UK just dissolves with the English keeping the debt ofcourse!

A clean slate for scotland and Wales would be a great parting gift.

What makes you think the English would not renege on the debt as well ?

After all much of it was run up under Scottish Chancellors of the Exchequer.

A break up of the UK would be a great opportunity for everyone present to scarper without paying the bill.

Edited September 22, 2009 by up2nogood

[indirectapproach]

If Scotland is independent in 2011 it will be bankrupt in January 2012.

It is as simple as that.

Despite Salmond's lies.

An independent Scotland in 2011 will renege on its share of the national debt, whatever that is, whether it wants to or not.

[Wario]

I wish Scotland well in their quest for independance but having experienced "Trainspotting Land" first hand (paid labourers in person in the Pennywell arms on Pennywell road so their wives didn't seee the money and they could drink it all away) I have my doubts.

Hah! The old 'Gunner'. Lived across the road for years. Better than having telly, just look out the (umpteenth floor, am not daft) window. I didn't know anybody with a job was allowed in there. Looks like Darth Vader's holiday cottage.

And that's the bookies' allright, where Euan McGregor makes a dash for the lavvy and drops his jellies down the pan.

Once had the character-building opportunity to be involved in council rehabs in Muirhouse Green, and the Jigsaw Puzzle flats.

One boy was down a manhole one day outside the 'Pennywell', arseing about with shuttering or something. Left his fifty-bob hardpoint on the lip of it on the pavement as it's an awkward bedfellow down a tight space.

So a couple of the all-day-breakfasters from the pub waited patiently, until he popped his head up before kicking it soundly off the back of the chamber and bolting with his worthless piece of B&Q hardware.

Another time, a couple of lads who reckoned they were hard enough (they were from Stoneyburn) thought they'd have a lunchtime scoop and a game of doms.

"Haw barman, gie's yir dommies."

"Aye nae borra big man, err yi go"

Hardly got to the first doubles, couple of walking-dead locals stroke in, check the strangers, inquire of bargadge:

"Hey! Bawbag! You geen hum wir doms eh?"

"Git tae fuk youse, it's the pub's"

One strolls over, lifts board with both hands by the corners, raises over head, applies it poco allegro to jiner's skull, smashing the board in shards.

Time - for a sHarp exit.

Schemies 2 - Honest tradesmen 0

[that's enough dreary anecdotes : ed]

<O/T>So what are youse all going to do about a shitehole like West Pilton etc?

[Scunnered]

-

Edited September 22, 2009 by Scunnered

[the flying pig]

if the jocks do get independence they'll no doubt get an outrageously good settlement in terms of their share of oil, debt, assets, etc, but have pissed it up the wall on free university tuition, 2000-euros-a-month welfare handouts for all and sundry, and **** knows what else within a decade and be back to the english [who, of course, they will blame for the gross unfairness of it all], cap in hand, shortly afterwards.

[Hectors House]

Always too much chatter about North Sea Oil

North Sea production is declining at an increasing rate, having peaked in 1999.

Not at the predicted flat rate of decline of 7%, but gradually accelerating from 7% to 8.5% to 11%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm

Historical fact which the Scots don't like, in the dark ages the Angles (Saxons) pushed north into what is now Scotland and had a a kingdom stretching from Hadrians wall to Strathclyde to the top of mid Lothian and over to Edinburgh, wonder how much Saxon blood there still is up there? It was the Saxons were blamed for the disappearance of the Picts.

By the way I have never accepted the term Sassenach as an insult, the term comes from the swords the Saxons carried,