Job Centre Scandal

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

I have a relative who works for the employment service who was telling me about all the daft ideas the government have rolled out over the last few month. Amongst these is 'volunteer opportunities', which involve job seekers being advised that doing some volunteer work might greatly improve their employment prospects. Quite how working for free is supposed to convince a potential employer your time is worth their money is a mystery to me. Worse still people sign up to assuming they are going to be doing something to help charitable organisations, but this isn't the case. People are being placed with profit making companies, sitting next to people being paid for doing the job they are doing for free. How do they get away with crap like this?

[eightiesgirly]

I have a relative who works for the employment service who was telling me about all the daft ideas the government have rolled out over the last few month. Amongst these is 'volunteer opportunities', which involve job seekers being advised that doing some volunteer work might greatly improve their employment prospects. Quite how working for free is supposed to convince a potential employer your time is worth their money is a mystery to me. Worse still people sign up to assuming they are going to be doing something to help charitable organisations, but this isn't the case. People are being placed with profit making companies, sitting next to people being paid for doing the job they are doing for free. How do they get away with crap like this?

Brittish Airways seemed to do it OK.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

I have a relative who works for the employment service who was telling me about all the daft ideas the government have rolled out over the last few month. Amongst these is 'volunteer opportunities', which involve job seekers being advised that doing some volunteer work might greatly improve their employment prospects. Quite how working for free is supposed to convince a potential employer your time is worth their money is a mystery to me. Worse still people sign up to assuming they are going to be doing something to help charitable organisations, but this isn't the case. People are being placed with profit making companies, sitting next to people being paid for doing the job they are doing for free. How do they get away with crap like this?

if they volunteer will they be removed from the statistics

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

if they volunteer will they be removed from the statistics

Not sure.

[BlueRat]

After I graduated in the mid 90s it was tricky to get a graduate job and after some dead-end work and a few months on the dole I was put in touch with the Prince's Trust. They had a scheme going where they got you in a work experience role for your dole money plus a tenner. I had a placement in a division of GEC and within a couple of months my manager got me in the company as a proper employee. Looking back I consider myself very lucky. Of course, there's room for an employer to just exploit this (like the old YTS) but it's better than sitting on your ar5e.

edit: swear filter won't let me say the four letter word for bum

Edited June 30, 2009 by BlueRat

[WorkingForTheMan]

This is true.... on young persons new deal, after 6 months on JSA you have to either go into education/training, voluntary work, or community work - all of these options remove you from the stats! - officially no-one under 25 has been on the dole for more than 6 months.

I have a friend who works 3 hours a week in a charity shop. He is no longer hassled by the jobcentre to find a job, but is happily paid his money every fortnight. The jobcentre have removed him from the stats (and have therefore met their target / done their job)

[Injin]

I have a relative who works for the employment service who was telling me about all the daft ideas the government have rolled out over the last few month. Amongst these is 'volunteer opportunities', which involve job seekers being advised that doing some volunteer work might greatly improve their employment prospects. Quite how working for free is supposed to convince a potential employer your time is worth their money is a mystery to me. Worse still people sign up to assuming they are going to be doing something to help charitable organisations, but this isn't the case. People are being placed with profit making companies, sitting next to people being paid for doing the job they are doing for free. How do they get away with crap like this?

Because those signing up to it have no self esteem?

[interestrateripoff]

This is true.... on young persons new deal, after 6 months on JSA you have to either go into education/training, voluntary work, or community work - all of these options remove you from the stats! - officially no-one under 25 has been on the dole for more than 6 months.

I have a friend who works 3 hours a week in a charity shop. He is no longer hassled by the jobcentre to find a job, but is happily paid his money every fortnight. The jobcentre have removed him from the stats (and have therefore met their target / done their job)

Excellent if this is rolled out to everyone no one need be unemployed and everyone can receive benefits.

If you aren't in paid employment, aged 16-65 and seeking work you should be on the stats.

[Thread Killer]

After I graduated in the mid 90s it was tricky to get a graduate job and after some dead-end work and a few months on the dole I was put in touch with the Prince's Trust. They had a scheme going where they got you in a work experience role for your dole money plus a tenner. I had a placement in a division of GEC and within a couple of months my manager got me in the company as a proper employee. Looking back I consider myself very lucky. Of course, there's room for an employer to just exploit this (like the old YTS) but it's better than sitting on your ar5e.

edit: swear filter won't let me say the four letter word for bum

Exactly.

I think this idea is actually a good one.

If you can get a placement with a real employer doing real work for nothing then of course you are going to be seen as more valuable than someone who is doing nothing all day.

Any company would consider hiring you for making that level of commitment. We should be encouraging our young people to volunteer and separate themselves from the chaff.

[stickybun]

Exactly.

I think this idea is actually a good one.

If you can get a placement with a real employer doing real work for nothing then of course you are going to be seen as more valuable than someone who is doing nothing all day.

Any company would consider hiring you for making that level of commitment. We should be encouraging our young people to volunteer and separate themselves from the chaff.

I am in the 16-55 age group and actively seeking work. I don't get to be counted because I happen to be happily married to the father of our children who works full-time. I am a Generalist Adviser for CAB and think that what I do is useful. It also allows me to demostrate that I am a viable employee despite the fact that I am main carer for our children and chose to take rather lengthy career break to bring them up. Despite the fact that I don't get paid I think it probably says more about my work ethic than some of the paid work I could do - especially when combined with quals and previous work experience, together with other voluntary roles that I have undertaken when I was a full-time employee. Can't think that doing any voluntary work could be bad for young people unless they were being exploited in some way - surely it's better to be doing something useful than sitting on your bum feeling sorry for yourself?

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

I have a relative who works for the employment service who was telling me about all the daft ideas the government have rolled out over the last few month. Amongst these is 'volunteer opportunities', which involve job seekers being advised that doing some volunteer work might greatly improve their employment prospects. Quite how working for free is supposed to convince a potential employer your time is worth their money is a mystery to me. Worse still people sign up to assuming they are going to be doing something to help charitable organisations, but this isn't the case. People are being placed with profit making companies, sitting next to people being paid for doing the job they are doing for free. How do they get away with crap like this?

As a volunteer you arn't employed, therefore they can get rid of you when they like. Importance? It shows potential you can get out out of bed and get to work on time and work well enough to hold down a job.

[Sibley's Love Child]

Exactly.

I think this idea is actually a good one.

If you can get a placement with a real employer doing real work for nothing then of course you are going to be seen as more valuable than someone who is doing nothing all day.

Any company would consider hiring you for making that level of commitment. We should be encouraging our young people to volunteer and separate themselves from the chaff.

I run one of these schemes for my employer and i've found that the people who apply (as they are working for nothing, essentially) are committed and pretty damn good. Anecdotally, I find the return-to-work mums to be worth their weight in gold.

[SNACR]

I am in the 16-55 age group and actively seeking work. I don't get to be counted because I happen to be happily married to the father of our children who works full-time. I am a Generalist Adviser for CAB and think that what I do is useful. It also allows me to demostrate that I am a viable employee despite the fact that I am main carer for our children and chose to take rather lengthy career break to bring them up. Despite the fact that I don't get paid I think it probably says more about my work ethic than some of the paid work I could do - especially when combined with quals and previous work experience, together with other voluntary roles that I have undertaken when I was a full-time employee. Can't think that doing any voluntary work could be bad for young people unless they were being exploited in some way - surely it's better to be doing something useful than sitting on your bum feeling sorry for yourself?

Exactly, people don't understand that work ethic is a better qualification than any degree certificate.

[SNACR]

I run one of these schemes for my employer and i've found that the people who apply (as they are working for nothing, essentially) are committed and pretty damn good. Anecdotally, I find the return-to-work mums to be worth their weight in gold.

Yep, I find the return to work mums a pretty good demographic as well. Have to be careful you don't get the didn't do too much work before they were mums demographic, by mistake.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Exactly, people don't understand that work ethic is a better qualification than any degree certificate.

Nonsense. I bet plenty of your minimum wage workers have a strong work ethic, and yet they are at the very bottom of the heap in employment terms. If you though a work ethic was so worthwhile I would expect you to pay a premium for it; you don't. We must conclude that a work ethic isn't worth spit.

[SNACR]

Nonsense. I bet plenty of your minimum wage workers have a strong work ethic, and yet they are at the very bottom of the heap in employment terms. If you though a work ethic was so worthwhile I would expect you to pay a premium for it; you don't. We must conclude that a work ethic isn't worth spit.

Not the case. The system takes about 6-12 months to highlight the doers and it's noted. When the opportunity arises they are plucked from their current job for better things. What people like you don't understand is that when they're offered the better job many say 'no thanks I don't want more responsibility, I'm happy where I am'.

The paradox is the competent doubt their own abilities and the incompetent don't.

[johnny5thumbs]

Not the case. The system takes about 6-12 months to highlight the doers and it's noted. When the opportunity arises they are plucked from their current job for better things. What people like you don't understand is that when they're offered the better job many say 'no thanks I don't want more responsibility, I'm happy where I am'.

The paradox is the competent doubt their own abilities and the incompetent don't.

I agree. In the past, I've taken people on YTS etc who I wouldn't have hired at interview because something about their attitiude / qualifications seemed iffy, yet who proved good reliable workers. Interviewing is a pretty hit and miss affair for both sides, laden with personal prejudices, no matter how open-minded you try to be, and a trial placement worker can often prove themself into a real job with prospects later.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Not the case. The system takes about 6-12 months to highlight the doers and it's noted. When the opportunity arises they are plucked from their current job for better things. What people like you don't understand is that when they're offered the better job many say 'no thanks I don't want more responsibility, I'm happy where I am'.

The paradox is the competent doubt their own abilities and the incompetent don't.

Off the tills and upgraded to head shelf stacker?

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

I agree. In the past, I've taken people on YTS etc who I wouldn't have hired at interview because something about their attitiude / qualifications seemed iffy, yet who proved good reliable workers. Interviewing is a pretty hit and miss affair for both sides, laden with personal prejudices, no matter how open-minded you try to be, and a trial placement worker can often prove themself into a real job with prospects later.

This thread wasn't actually about these type of placement. The employment service is misleading people by placing them into for profit companies for what are supposed to be voluntary sector placements.

[godless]

This is the future of employment, voluntary work. This is the grand plan that Blair set out to achieve a few years ago, free labour economy controlled by the state and big business. It will merge the unemployable with the unemployed and set standards based on class/degrees and private enterprise/corporate. The masses will get paid by government or subsidized business', the voluntary work for benefits is a part of the plan as is train to gain and academies. We will became a corporate state somewhere between communism and fascism, were equality will be achieved by homogenizing the "diverse" groups under a corporate structure and be integrated under a "code of conduct" issued by the state using the endless laws that have been created. It will be fairish system but I doubt there will be freedom to express or develop new ideas without going through government first. We are entering a corpocracy or social plutocracy akin to the days of landed gentry.

The new deal, train to gain, academies, McD degrees, green schemes, benefit system changes, health & safety, PFI, equality bills, tax system and a multitude of other changes and laws that have happened over the last 10 years are for a reason and are working(to a point), even BTL and the Lisbon Treaty are factored in. Some say Labour are Tories, some say they are socialist both left and right, they are all. The centrist policies the government have been developing were designed to prevent difference and harmonize political ideology or simply put, prevent democracy. The level of social engineering that is currently in place is truly enormous and when you step back and really see how behaviour has been altered and inseminated in most people its enough to make you weep. The overly altruistic view of government up until a year ago, the complicity in fraud, the neighbour against neighbour, the acceptance of CCTV, ID cards, anti-terror laws, the "I deserve it and so do my kids culture", the shrugging of responsibility, the complicity of the BBC and media.....But not everyone of course has shared in the great leaders visions and gifts, the lack of democracy has led to multiparty politics, all that have little power to change anything. The problem lies in what happens if it doesn't go as the social engineers expect? It is not pretty to contemplate, with such massive "diversity", The Tories will retain many of Labours plans as the corporative structure and hierarchy will sit with them very nicely.

The system has changed and the real test of its "social" value is upon us, it will enslave or breakdown along with society but I expect only for a generation but at a high price. The created behaviour in the masses was easy to engineer with gifts of free money and property whilst spouting collective mantras of "having a stake in our future" and "social responsibility" and "no more boom and bust". The truth being that everyone was taken in and everyone played along even those that benefitted from house prices. The imbalance was deliberately created so as to create the roots for this all to grow, without the biggest bubble in history the people would not participate in bringing about the solution we never realized was being implimented under our noses. This system is also global and co-ordinated amongst most powerful nations, think those nations that are bailing out the corrupt and "socializing the loses". Many parts of this system have been in the planning for over 100 years and I firmly believe the Great Depression, of which the current crisis has similarities, was also engineered to achieve early examples of this ideology.

A believe we are seeing the culmination of the grand plan right now. Just as a nation state empire expands beyond its terratorial borders the global empire will expand beyond cultural borders.

[SNACR]

Off the tills and upgraded to head shelf stacker?

Got a 25 year old who's gone from shopfloor to area manager in <3yrs. He didn't used to much like his school friends who went to uni and got jobs in the city. Now they're jobless and he's driving a brand new, good spec, BMW.

Someone who came from my shopfloor is now a director at another retail chain. Which is good from his point of view, but disappointing he left.

[Super Mario]

Got a 25 year old who's gone from shopfloor to area manager in <3yrs. He didn't used to much like his school friends who went to uni and got jobs in the city. Now they're jobless and he's driving a brand new, good spec, BMW.

Someone who came from my shopfloor is now a director at another retail chain. Which is good from his point of view, but disappointing he left.

I would suggest that he did well because of something other than having a good work ethic. A work ethic is only any value if you add it to some other useful skill (it is accepted that this skill may or may not come from having a degree). For instance I would prefer my doctor to have a degree and a work ethic, but if I had to pick just one I'd rather they were bone idle and knew what they doing.

[winkie]

Not the case. The system takes about 6-12 months to highlight the doers and it's noted. When the opportunity arises they are plucked from their current job for better things. What people like you don't understand is that when they're offered the better job many say 'no thanks I don't want more responsibility, I'm happy where I am'.

The paradox is the competent doubt their own abilities and the incompetent don't.

You know your stuff.

[Mr Yogi]

People don't understand that work ethic is a better qualification than any degree certificate.

More excellent stuff from Mr Aldi. I could have picked almost any line from his posts to this thread.

A good employer would always choose enthusiasm and desire to work over paper qualifications. The vast majority of jobs don't need any qualifications - they need ability, character, and the determination to learn and succeed.

Taking a job without pay for a short period of time is an excellent way to demonstrate to an employer that you are indispensible. If you're good, they will take you on full time and earmark you for advancement. If you're crap or don't even turn up, no matter how many certificates you have you are nowhere.

For too many people (on here) the aquisition of a degree instills a sense of entitlement that is completely unrealistic in the real world.

[interestrateripoff]

This also reminds me of the Tory's in the 80's when they said no 16-18 was unemployed because they are either on YTS, in college/sixth form, or they have a job.

There was no other alternative and it's a great way to manipulate the stats. Labour have taken this idea to a whole new level and now took the age range up to 25 to make more people disappear.